Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - F1-F3 - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I'm surprised she made it to f2, especially after his response to her ILY was basically WTF. I do think they have a connection, but it seems more friendship-based, rather than emotional or physical. I think she's just no-drama and easy-going, so she's probably easy and fun for him to be with and not worry about. She just doesn't seem as invested as any of the other girls in the f6 to me; maybe they're not showing it or maybe she's hiding it, but that's the vibe I get, IMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I too believe that wherever Raven and Rachel fell in their exit for this show - whether RS was right or wrong -- Nick's "true" F1 and F2 are Vanessa and Rachel respectively. JMO

I am extremely curious how the F1 relationship progresses post-show particularly given this dynamic which [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] so masterfully articulated regarding the emotion-logic attributes that all 3 (Nick, V and Rachel) have in their personalities -IMHO. I'm curious particularly to watch the relationship and to watch Rachel as bette as she juggles the pull of these two drivers.

One point I do disagree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] about is the paragraph describing why Nick is drawn to Rachel mostly due to the fact that she checks off his list... educated, accomplished etc. etc. I don't necessarily buy into this view particularly because of the words he uses to describe his connection with Rachel -- he discusses the element of feeling like 'they have explosive sexual chemistry, he'd known her forever, like they create a small world together when they talk, like he could be with her for hours, like it's completely effortless between them, like he enjoys and has fun when he's with her, like they're old friends i.e. he's completely himself, like he can never run out of something to talk about'. He also discusses how he was able to connect emotionally and cerebrally with her.... I do think these things play a big role in her appeal. JMO

My 2 cents: As human beings with highly developed brains and emotions - we can adapt to situations. I can imagine whoever Nick ends up with (especially if we believe they really want to make it work) their personalities will complement as they accept each others' strengths and weaknesses.  I think maturity and exposure to various experiences will also bring another dimension to the longevity of the couple. I don't think that the way their relationship develop in 9 weeks or personalities before they became a couple is an indication of whether they make it or not. They formed a bond, strengthening that bond for a long term commitment will take a lot of effort.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with you. What I've meant with his attraction to Rachel is ... that her "accomplishments" speak of her character, what is his turn-on IMO:
educated => intelligent, deep, introspective, well-informed, inclusive, non-judgmental,
accomplished, success-driven => what she sets to do, she does it and does it well ... wise, knows how to use the knowledge in own advantage and mature,
determined => not a quitter, active, possible risk-taker (like him), does require having a strong-bone in regards to the outside world and own insecurities,
ambitious => she doesn't rest on her laurels, she's up for new challenges, possible adventurist like him and aspiring to be a better version of herself,
in many ways Nick and Rachel are the same, in some I believe she even exceeds him (and therefor fascinates him and makes him admire her).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] agreed! That's why I'm very curious to see how the relationship will progress and how they would both grow as individuals and as a couple

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thanks for sharing - I see what you are saying - what is your take on the Vanessa and Nick dynamic given what you described (since you'd described the Nick-Rachel dynamic that you see)? What do you think is appealing to him about her?

Personally, I never saw anything with Nick and Raven beyond respect and a friendship. For me, it was telling when she narrated her cheating story and he wanted to know more of how things went down. IMO I feel if he was really into her, he wouldn't want her to revisit that memory in explicit detail coz it would only be painful for her and her walls might go up remembering the pain the incident caused her. What she learnt from it, sure but there was no need for him to go - 'So let me get this straight..'. He was almost like an audience member eating popcorn listening to a juicy story IMO.

I think Raven made F2/F3 coz someone had to and Nick was not going to risk taking Corinne to FSD and having people say that he was only interested in hooking up with her when IMO it was TPTB that got her till HTD's and not Nick himself. All JMO.

Is it possible that Raven went home after hometown dates? They are commenting in other threads that ABC only has ten episodes scheduled. Maybe Nick sends two home and goes to Finland with only Vanessa and Rachel? We haven't seen SC proof of either Vanessa or Raven in Finland, right?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that's another question I still don't have a definite answer to. Mostly because the "emotions" are unpredictable. I'm somehow similar to Nick and Vanessa and I'm yet to find a partner in my life who can "handle" me ... so I have no idea how people can make it work ... I think that's the "magic" of chemistry", when it's not explainable ... or it is, but rests a private matter (because it would be shocking if public, considering so many taboo topics).

It's like the beauty and what we find attractive. I'm very drawn to honesty, prefer the "unpleasant truth" than a nice lie, I can even behave nicely when things don't go my way, but if I'm lied to, even the most beautiful one becomes unbearable. I find it disrespectful and feels like undermining... and I value respect. The biggest struggles are my insecurities and I don't want to burden others with them, so sometimes I shut people out of my life because of that (and has nothing to do with them) ... so it's important to find a person who makes me feel OK despite all the "crazy and heavy" in my head (raise up to the challenge, being my relief and who doesn't feel threatened by my mood swings).
If that's what Nick found in Vanessa, and vice versa, then I get it. How can they make it work? ... I'm more than curious.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thanks for being vulnerable and sharing - much appreciate it
If I'm totally honest I can definitely see how V&N can be a sanctuary for each other but I also see a space with sooo many fireworks being set off by both of them and I don't know how sustainable that can be... I do agree with you that I see how V has similarities with Kaitlyn in some ways and I see Shawn as a calming and loyal reassuring presence. I can see how Nick can be like that but I also see him as someone who wants the spotlight and needs to be talked out of his own overanalysis and I have a hard time imagining V doing that... it will be fascinating to see after all...
Regardless I do think this is the move that makes most sense for Nick because it gives him the relationship he's been chasing for soo long... until he can go through it, he can't continue to grow and move forward in his journey and this is his journey after all IMHO

I think the differences in post filming interviews is that Nick was already sort of selling Rachel as the ette very early on. Even some of his first post filming interviews he's always speaking highly in regards to Rachel. With Vanessa he's sort of hush hush and sometimes throws in what he feels about her without actually pitching her for the ette role if that makes any sense. I have yet to see Nick talk so highly of Raven during interviews like he does for Rachel.

To me the current interview agenda is

1. Speak about Rachel
2. hints about your F1
3. Corrine
4. Do you end up alone or engaged?

Raven is never a topic of discussion.

OnePromise wrote:Is it possible that Raven went home after hometown dates? They are commenting in other threads that ABC only has ten episodes scheduled. Maybe Nick sends two home and goes to Finland with only Vanessa and Rachel? We haven't seen SC proof of either Vanessa or Raven in Finland, right?

Good point! I keep saying I want to recap what has been sleuthed for Raven because I'm, as some other are, thinking she's F3.

I'm not even sure Nick is selling Rachel as next Bette. I think he truly feels like she deserves all those praises, IMO, because she was his "second best" and it's not her fault for not being "the one". That's why I see her as real F2, instead of Raven. Because I don't see the affinity with Raven as he has with Rachel (similar minds).