Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - F1-F3 - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

I'm still in the process of contemplation, but few thoughts that I bring forward to discussion:
I believe Nick is an eternal "adventure" seeker, he's a man of opposites in search of a balance... and although the balance is a goal, it's the process that is more thrilling and exciting for him ... almost as if once reached the goal he would get bored with it, so therefor he likes the chase (process) and maybe he's a little bit scared of that "what then" at the end (though, relationship is not the end, IMO) ... and his opposite is him seeking logic (in everything), but being driven by emotions ... that for example is most noticeable in his analyzes of people on the show (previously when he was a commentator of certain characters) and then when he "defended" Ashley I (his friend, who by the same logic that Nick conveys, wasn't defensible, explainable yes, but not justifiable) or his infamous ATFR comment (when he forgot to use the logic in understanding Andi's "cold shoulder" and her being engaged to Josh).

Based on this belief, I think he emotionally is "standing by" Corinne (another Ashley I to me), because he is the lead and because he "needs to" justify his decisions (to the girls and public), even though he isn't interested in her emotionally or romantically and though logically his reasons don't hold, considering his past statements about women and what he likes. (I won't go in details, but I'm glad Sharleen told him so, JMO)

From that same POV, I also see Vanessa and Rachel being very similar to him. While Vanessa uses logic (example: Corinne conversation), she acts on her emotions and for some reason it works for them, Rachel on the other hand acts on logic, but the logic applied is the one Nick stands by ... so he agrees with her, understands her and therefor with her the "relationship" is effortless ... but here I presume the "problem of missing romance" lays ... their relationship lacks the emotion (what in describing Italians I refer to passion), that gut instinct that Nick is pulled by, that makes the waves even in steady water ... that "oh, ****" moment, when he is left wondering with the anticipation of the next step (adventure).

I do think he is interested emotionally and romantically in Rachel mostly because she is an accomplished, success-driven, determined and an ambitious woman, which speaks further about her character and Nick is attracted to those traits (IMO, it was also something he liked in Andi before she decided to quit being the Andi he "knew"), she's also honest with him (another turn-on), open to possibility to fall in love in this unnatural environment (same logic), loving own "big" family (similarity in background) and willing to turn a notch in her adventurous side (so she could be a potential partner in crime for Nick), but I feel like the logic at the end doesn't conquer.

It's the passion Nick is looking for, IMO, like he said to Danielle L, "adventure and raw", when it's not about acting irrationally, but following own desires and feelings (true self) without fear of the external result (opinion of people), because the result is just a consequence of the process that should be enjoyable and animated, JMO.

^^happy thanks for explaining my equation
rawness = passion/vulnerability

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] awesome post and I love everything you said at least as for my own opinions and perspectives on Nick you're bringing lots of great food for thought

I do agree Nick will likely choose the emotion --- unpredictable, animated, exciting, unexpected and emotion-filled/driven over the logical etc. I wonder what kind of dynamic V&N will forge given they both lead with emotion and how they can find balance. Sidenote I do think both seek attention and add the excitement/drama to a situation - how will that be sustained over time for both of them to feel great about themselves individually and as a couple - finding balance. I really like how V softens Nick and has him be attentive to her, care for her etc - question is how will he feel "cared for" by her? V also is the kind of person who imo wants the person in a relationship with her to think of them as a "we" once they're together - as a unit and I'm curious to see how that works out for him - does he like to have his individual freedom or is he also seeking a coupledom that fits Vanessa's worldview...are they too similar or are they similar enough but also different enough to create balance.

I think with Rachel would be a "partner-in-crime" type by offering companionship/friendship/she'd have the spice and sexiness but with the composure, have the intrigue but with the logic. It's a VERY different type of role that'd be expected of him because Rachel would lead with strength and logic. He'd work on drawing her out and helping her own her rawness/vulnerability while she'd challenge him ....I can see them being joined at the hip and very close friends/lovers who have a lot of fun, passion, engaging and creating a world of their own with lots of experiences. He's going to be protective of Rachel but by giving her the space to be her sensitive self and to show her vulnerability...

As you described Nick is very much about the thrill and the chase and the process and seems to deliberately hold off on the "what now" moments esp with relationship. at this point in his life...I see him definitely picking Vanessa and the unexpected, passionate, animated life she would bring.

How come only Rachel is considered the logic one? I beg to differ but when Vanessa confronted Nick about Corrine she judged his actions and asked him what he wanted and if that's how he wanted people to judge him by.To me that's throwing some logic his way. We also haven't seen any of Nick and Vanessa's conversations Episode 5 and 6 which are all very important times for Nick. We're basically just left to speculate since we can't even compare so much of what's being said between Vanessa and Nick right now. JMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] If you notice upthread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said that both have the logic and emotion but V leads with emotion when she decides while she will converse and engage with logic while Rachel does the opposite -- leads with logic but then will also engage and connect with emotion... I tend to agree with this view. I also agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that Nick is like V in that he leads/decides with emotion but usually engages using logic - I'd however add that IMHO that's the reason why it is a good question to ask how they can strike a balance for/with each other in a long-term relationship... IMHO only TWT
On the converse with Rachel - will her approach be what he wants at this moment and IMHO the answer is No JMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Vanessa is very much like Nick, IMO (more so than Rachel, and why I also believe he is fascinated by Rachel and admires her for her strength) ... and since we have more material on him, I'll explain my POV with the example: when discussing himself or other people POST PROCESS he is capable to use logic, he can rationalize things, view them from different angles, find the positive in negative and find "peace" with it/acceptance (balance).
But in the heat of the moment he acts accordingly to his emotions, which is something he is criticized for as being "self-absorbed" or as he likes to say "genuine and authentic" ... he acts on instinct (what he feels is right for him). Because he takes the great pleasure in that "taken risk" ... of just doing it ... and think later. Like Nick often says, "in hindsight 20/20" ... he can find the logic (reason, purpose and a lesson) in his actions, so he lives with no regret ... but it's "living in the moment" that he prefers (doesn't always practice it, but it's what attracts him - and what attracted him in Kaitlyn as an example) ... his motto "live loud, love hard" or "go big or go home". - all IMO

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Thank you both for explaining your views.

Now on a different subject, I wonder why Raven is never in question or in comparisons here considering she's the supposed F2. I once said I think she's the lesser of the two being Vanessa and Rachel that Nick has a connection with. What do you guys think? Where does Raven stand with Nick?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I too mentioned around here somewhere, that I was feeling Raven was F3 and Rachel F2.

Good question... one I'm still trying to figure out. To me Rachel is "true" F2, since on the first "look" Raven is not even close ... but then I'm thinking, maybe it's her "spunky" side, her more "emotional" side that won him over, though I continue to not see much logic    (and his statement post show, regarding Raven comments on him prove me so).
I'm leaning towards him letting Rachel go for not putting her in same position he was before ... but it's yet to be seen how it all "ends".

I see Vanessa as an ENFJ, the protagonist:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And Rachel as an ESTJ, the executive:

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I see Nick as an INTJ so he would share the N and J with Vanessa and the T and J with Rachel. Makes sense to me why he has a very cerebral connection with Rachel (their shared T) and a more "sixth sense" type of connection with Vanessa (their shared N).

I just don't see it connection wise with Raven. I see it with Vanessa who's definitely first in my mind in regards to his feelings, I see it with Rachel who's 2nd connection wise, but I don't see it with Raven. She's not just 3rd in my mind but there's a HUGE gap IMO between the first two I named and Raven. I think excluding V and Rachel, he likes her WAY more than the rest, but I just don't see much in their relationship aside from her 1st 1-1 where they bonded over being cheated on. Are they not showing it? Or is it just not there? All JMO.

I have the feeling Rachel's HTD didn't go well. We already heard Mr. Lindsay is a judge, very intimidating. They seem to be a very accomplished family and now daddy's girl brings home a guy who's been "homeless and out of job" for the past year...huge red flag! I can already imagine him grilling Nick and disapproving ..that's Nick's insecurity!
All Jmo but I will not be surprised if that's how Rachel ended up f3.