Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - F1-F3 - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

coolangel wrote:I am not sure how much value to place on CH's words but if his following statement is taken literally, I think it might mean that Rachel is F2.

And so we want to cast the show for Rachel, but we can’t do that in two days.

Source

IMO it would also explain why they are still pushing the 'Nick might end up alone' narrative coz if Raven gets eliminated at F3 and Rachel is the 'Ette, it would be obvious that Vanessa is the winner.

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Between all the 'To be continued..', the choppy editing and the FSD episode/WTA mashup, I think this might be a possibility. Guess we'll find out in two days when WTA taping is done.

All JMO.

From what we've seen of Rachel's date, it doesn't seem to be the same as the one described in next Monday's episode. Isn't she on some sled type thing?

coolangel wrote:I am not sure how much value to place on CH's words but if his following statement is taken literally, I think it might mean that Rachel is F2.

And so we want to cast the show for Rachel, but we can’t do that in two days.

Source

IMO it would also explain why they are still pushing the 'Nick might end up alone' narrative coz if Raven gets eliminated at F3 and Rachel is the 'Ette, it would be obvious that Vanessa is the winner.

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Between all the 'To be continued..', the choppy editing and the FSD episode/WTA mashup, I think this might be a possibility. Guess we'll find out in two days when WTA taping is done.

All JMO.

Don't they usually announce the Bachelorette at the end of ATFR? So it'd be two days no matter who it is. I guess they could've made an exception this time and announced Rachel at the WTA, but a week doesn't make much difference.

"Cast the show" could mean start contacting guys to let them know they are in so they can take leaves from their jobs. It could be a positive thing to not rely so much on casting people who are prone to quitting their jobs.
Plus I think it's been said that some people aren't contacted for a year or more so they may be looking at old applications, older guys, and want to ask them specifically if they are interested in Rachel.

In a nutshell - what exactly is the "proof" that Vanessa is F1 ? I re-watched the scenes with Raven - and I think there is far more chemistry with Raven. Nick seems so relaxed and happy when he is with her - but intrigued and amused by her too. The evening part of the skating in the roller rink - very romantic - and then when she got the 3 on 1 date rose - they couldn't keep their hands off each other. On the htd - maybe the mud-bath scene was staged - but both seemed to be having fun - "sassy and sexual !" We don't get to see the hot tub scene - is that because we might figure out something ? Remember we are continually told that N is unpredictable. I see Vanessa whining, complaining, doubtful - needing to re-evaluate - and I feel N is on the brink of "getting in trouble." Vanessa leads the conversation - I think N gets kind of swallowed up. And Vanessa complains a fair amount - but to the camera or other girls - she doesn't communicate to Nick other than it is hard. I wonder if we are in for a twist ....
It is interesting that Raven seems confident in what they have. She is very quiet on the boat trip - doesn't try to compete for N's time - or compete with Corinne and Kristina. She has told the camera she is falling for Nick - but is being pretty non-committal with him. Is that why he is wondering if the girl he chooses will accept the ring. Maybe it is Raven.

Raven is a MOT. An F2 MOT. I don't believe for a second she fell in love with Nick and vice versa. JMO

IMO, there is no competition between Raven and Vanessa. IMO this is why they are playing up will he leave alone crap.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].  Yes, there has been some sleuthing for SHV and watching their feet so to speak.  We have been comparing that vs. Raven's. Check out Vanessa's earlier threads.  The first ones which we thought weren't that obvious - Nick posting cooking italian food (too much for 1 person we thought, etc - before orange couch gate happened).  Then someone posts, "Dad spots Vanessa at Montreal airport" (IG), same time we see Nick posts a selfie in a plane (see airplane vents in background).  Soon after that Italian food cooking and an extra "foot" shows up in the IG story (indicates more than just Nick).  Meanwhile - N&V gets quiet for a couple of days just food cooking pics by Nick.  Then Orange Couch Gate.  After couch date, when someone on IG said that they were sitting on same couch, they have been a bit more careful with the simultaneous IG postings and seem to make an effort (especially this last one) to show that they are out with friends. But they still need to break the pattern of a couple of days quiet, then they both resurface.

Raven on the other hand was busy posting IGs with her dog, with cousins, friends and Uncle (during these supposedly SHV visits).  

So maybe not proof but enough to tickle the Nick fans.

I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... If Nick had taken Rachel to F2, I'm wondering, would we have seen another "Nick vs. Shawn" rivalry* ... and whether there were any plans for that? (Gossip Girl sure tried to create one online) But with Vanessa and Raven ... nope, non existent ... there is a huge difference in Nick's behavior, BL/eyes, level of trust and intimacy (and I don't mean sexual) that he displays with one or the other woman.

*not that I think there was any

Also forgot N&V have been posting on IG/IG Story, simultaneously mind you, selfies with same filters - often Vanessa would do it first then Nick would follow. And none of that with Raven or anyone else. We thought they were just too cute.

CHO wrote:In a nutshell - what exactly is the "proof" that Vanessa is F1 ?  I re-watched the scenes with Raven - and I think there is far more chemistry with Raven.  Nick seems so relaxed and happy when he is with her - but intrigued and amused by her too.  The evening part of the skating in the roller rink - very romantic - and then when she got the 3 on 1 date rose - they couldn't keep their hands off each other.  On the htd - maybe the mud-bath scene was staged - but both seemed to be having fun - "sassy and sexual !"  We don't get to see the hot tub scene - is that because we might figure out something ?  Remember we are continually told that N is unpredictable.  I see Vanessa whining, complaining, doubtful - needing to re-evaluate - and I feel N is on the brink of "getting in trouble."  Vanessa leads the conversation - I think N gets kind of swallowed up. And Vanessa complains a fair amount - but to the camera or other girls - she doesn't communicate to Nick other than it is hard. I wonder if we are in for a twist ....  
It is interesting that Raven seems confident in what they have.  She is very quiet on the boat trip - doesn't try to compete for N's time - or compete with Corinne and Kristina.  She has told the camera she is falling for Nick - but is being pretty non-committal with him.  Is that why he is wondering if the girl he chooses will accept the ring.  Maybe it is Raven.  

IMO something is not right with the order of elimination RS gave of Corrine eliminated final 4, Rachel eliminated final 3, Raven eliminated final 2, Vanessa final 1. Raven has said RS doesn't get everything right!!! Which leaves questionable wiggle room in the spoilers he gave. At this point I'm not counting out Raven being final 1, all we know for sure is Rachel isn't since she's next bachelorette. I still remember RS saying that Brad was with Chantal at Thanksgiving and chose her not Emily, he didn't change until this board spotted Rickki's refrigerator drawing at Brad's apartment. He is not infallible and there are other instances where he has jumped to wrong conclusion.

We all know RS has been wrong plenty of times and for the record, other than stating Nick chose Vanessa and standing by that, RS hasn't said much in the way of their being seen together, unless I'm mistaken. He's actually snootily dismissed anything social media related, insisting that he doesn't use social media for his spoilers.

Most of the other stuff about Nick and Vanessa possibly being together has been sleuthed by members here. I really don't feel like making some long detailed post so I'll just say that in my opinion, there is far more post-show pointing to Vanessa being F1 than Raven. In fact, I can't think of anything post-show that has suggested Raven is F1. Now she may very well be because crazier things have happened and if she is, kudos to them because that will certainly be one of the best foiled seasons if that is the case.

However, in my opinion, right now I'd say the spoiler of Vanessa being F1 is correct and interestingly all the "drama" in the last few episodes just further convinces me of that. Because I would assume the producers want to make it as least obvious as possible. Regarding Raven's comment about RS not always being right, I've actually thought that might point more to her being F3 than F2 based on when she was back on social media.

And finally, the thing that convinces me period that Vanessa is F1 was "couch-gate". I know many spun theories when Vanessa posted herself right after in bed with her friend and some became convinced that it meant they weren't together but I'm sorry, I will never buy that Nick and Vanessa, who were both silent on social media for two days, just happened to post right after each other and coincidentally were both on orange couches but not together at all. That is some coincidence.

Well if Raven is final 3 it is astounding for the producers to announce Rachel as bachelorette leaving no suspense for an ending between her and Vanessa, why watch?