Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #8

StacyNor wrote:

bleuberry wrote:If popularity and "pecking order" are concerned, well, Andi and Josh are the most followed couple of the franchise on IG, so I'm not at all surprised they would discourage Nick from coming if they were worried A/J wouldn't come. I'm not sure that these live premieres/finales are in the contract? That seems unreasonable.

Truthfully after his live TV 'moment' last summer, I wouldn't show up to another live show that he was attending either. I don't think it's merely about exes... but rather his unpredictability. And she probably just can't stand his guts .

Honestly. What do you think he would have done if he attended the show? I find it so weird the your avi has a pic of Des and Chris who are a class on their own after Brooks humiliated Des and people thought Chris was her second choice and they are still friendly with Brooks. That shows class and what great people they are. They accepted what happened in the show and moved on while you have these two brats that are holding a grudge to a guy that has not even talked about them in months. It doesn't matter how many instagram followers those two have TPTB only cares if they will bring ratings if they have a televised wedding. Advertisers don't pay for followers on instagram.

Nick wouldn't have done anything to Andi if he went to the show. All I see is excuses **edited****Edited** Josh said crap about JP, a guy he doesn't even know.

Mustang19 wrote:^ As I said above, too bad Andi didn't take that "high road" she commended Chris on. I really don't think anything would have happened with Nick being there. It would have been a good opportunity to bury the hard feelings. Andi/Josh apparently have not moved on.

Kashathediva wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:IMO, I can't even compare the Brooks and Des situation to Andi and Josh's with Nick. Even though it hurt her on the show, Brooks was kind to her and ultimately, it was the best thing to happen to Des. Chris was the best guy there for her, no doubt and it worked out perfectly for them.

Brooks didn't chase Des down after the show. He didn't try to see her in person while she was engaged to a different man. Brooks didn't want a second chance with her and write her a letter telling her she picked the wrong guy and that he was the better choice, so take him back. He didn't tell millions of people he slept with her on live television nor was he recorded on a plane spoiling the ending and talking negatively about the winner of the show. People can argue all they want that Andi was disrespectful, I don't disagree to a certain extent, but Nick wasn't respectful of Andi either nor was he respectful of the guys, especially Josh and his relationship with Andi, who didn't do anything or say anything badly about him until Nick had his plane fiasco, wanted a second chance with his fiance, and then told millions of people he slept with her. Nick might be respectful now, but no one from this show had to deal with a runner up the way Josh and Andi had to post filming. No matter what my views are on the three of them, that's plain and simple for me.

To me this is comparing apples to oranges.
Brooks was not the lead, Des was. Brooks was the one terminating the relationship, not the main. Brooks used so much compassion and kindness with Des, that the film crew took time to film his anguish. Brooks did not need to attempt to contact Des post show, there was closure. Period. It was him terminating the relationship and Des had happily moved on. Case closed.

On the other hand, MEandI was the lead, she was the one terminating the relationship. She did not provide closure and/or the producers worked this. Kindness and compassion were not utilized in dealing with the situation. The film crew even accentuated this on her exit from Nick's room. The ensuing months after the FRC was like a pressure cooker/crock pot. The situation stewed rather that putting a fork in it and being done.
To me, these are entirely different situations with two entirely different results.

Kashathediva wrote:I think my post above and posts throughout the years, indicate that TPTB have many manipulations in their bag of endless tricks.
I no longer believe after Emily's season that the show ends at the FRC.

notarose wrote:

Eagle Eye wrote:

Alanna wrote:Was Andi allowed to tell Nick she's breaking up with him because she wants Josh as her f1? When he asked her in that hotel room if it's something about their relationship or "someone" else, she acted like she had no idea WTF he was talking about, like, "who the heck is someone else?!?" I wonder if that was a contingency for letting him go early for her by tptb.

Bingo. I don't think it's a coincidence that both Emily and Andi, the leads who didn't give their F2 much if any closure, were allowed to let the F2 go early. I think it's pretty obvious that they were told not to make any definitive statements about being in love with/choosing their F1, because then there's no drama left for the FRC. How can they play their ominous music and make us think the F1 is maybe possibly going to get dumped, if the lead has already made it clear that she's in love with him? Where's the suspense in that?

Arie also struggled emotionally at the time.  As I recall, he flew to Em's hometown and left his journal (like Nick giving CH a letter on the MTA weekend).  

Chris from Ali's season - wasn't he let go early as well?  It was a long time ago but I think Ali might have done better in attempting to give Chris closure.  It's possible the way in which each lead handled the F2 breakup during filming was just a reflection of their individual personalities.

aviej wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Of course, we, the audience will never know what exactly went down. How many takes it took, how much editing went into the scene, what she was allowed to say or not say.
We can say however, that she did not leave Nick with the feeling that the relationship she had with him was not enough for her and that the other relationship offered what she needed, wanted.
Other leads have said such--as anguished as Brooks was he did make it clear to Des.
It appeared the more Nick needed definition of what was going down, the angrier ME got.

I have absolutely no doubt TPTB played mind games every which way with both parties. That is their job. That is why you will never see me come out and saying being on the show is a good thing. Good things may come from it, but you sell a pound of flesh to get there and that can be very painful as you are going through it.

But how does this line up with what Nick said in the car when he was leaving - "she obviously has strong feelings for Josh". That says to me, enough information was given for him to draw that conclusion. Besides, I don't think TPTB would allow Andi to  say point blank that she has stronger feelings for Josh and give away the ending. If I remember correctly, when Nick asked if it was about someone else, she shrugged and glanced quickly in the direction of the camera. So who knows what they told her to say. Andi has been consistent and honest in telling all of the guys who she has broken up with, even Chris, why things would not have worked out. Why the same attention didn't take place with the F2, I think you have to direct that at TPTB because it goes against her trend with all the others.

MiaHawk wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I think my post above and posts throughout the years, indicate that TPTB have many manipulations in their bag of endless tricks.
I no longer believe after Emily's season that the show ends at the FRC.

Exactly. Look at what Arie went through with the journal.  I, personally, thought that Arie's actions were romantic (even if they were prompted by TPTB), and I thought his hurt and humiliation were real when they exploited them and him at ATFR. I feel the same way about Nick's efforts post-finale. I think his notes, calls, and attempts to meet with Andi were romantic (even if he was merely seeking proper closure), even if they were prompted by TPTB.  I guess, to me, the willingness to be vulnerable is a romantic gesture, regardless of the end result.  Others may only think something is romantic if it wins the girl in the end.  If it doesn't win the girl, it is viewed as creepy by them.  How many would feel differently about those actions if Andi would have changed her mind? Suddenly, Nick would have been seen as the most romantic man of this franchise!  I guess we all see things differently. But, since we only have control over our own actions, and not other people's reactions to them, I chose to assess romanticism based on a man's individual motivation and wilingness to bare his soul in the quest of love.  Once it was made clear to him at ATFR that Andi was not receptive, he moved on and has never looked back.  

MiaHawk wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

StacyNor wrote:

My point was Des might have felt humiliated at one point by Brooks but she didn't let that humiliation continue in her life with Chris. The same for Chris, while I can agree Andi might have been humiliated by Nick but by now she and Josh should have moved with their life as a couple without being bothered  by Nick. All it tells me is Andi hasn't moved on from Nick for her and brat boy to continue being vengeful towards Nick. It was just one event, no one said they should be friends or anything

Well said. I think that's the point some are trying to make, you summarized it perfectly.

All of the seasons are a bit different and the people on the seasons have their own unique relationships (good, bad, or ugly).  Editing makes it difficult to ever know what truly occured. TPTB's manipulations and mind games are always a part of production.  In Andi's season, I think it was well demonstrated that these manipulations can and do continue after the finale.  I do not doubt that "things" may have been whispered around by certain friendly crew members prior to Chris' premiere in an attempt to gauge 'the temperature of the water' with Andi and Josh IF Nick were to also attend.  IF Andi or Josh began to beat their chests or stamp their feet, it may have then gotten back to someone further up the foodchain and Nick's invitation was reneged or it was strongly advised not to attend.  Heck, all they would have to say to Nick was that horrible Kelly was going to be there and he probably gladly declined.

Because this show is so highly edited and people are manipulated or are there for the wrong reasons from the start, I do not always judge the people or think I really know their character.  I typically think character is what we see post- finale  (at ATFR) and beyond.  I just said above that Andi, Josh, and Nick could still be being manipulated by their friendly handler crew member buddies (who are really double agents), but I do strongly believe that Andi and Josh (to a lesser degree) have a particular personality type and continue to act accordingly.  

It is my own personal opinion that Andi was doted upon and spoiled as a child (her words) and has grown into a materialistic, entitled woman. I feel she has a black or white view of the world...you are right or wrong, good or evil, with me or against me...which may be exactly what serves her well as an attorney but lends itself to a sort of harshness when it comes to personal relationships.  In law, to hesitate, to shown any kind of ambivalence or wiggle room in a prosecution is a sign of a weak case, a flaw. And if you are being judged by your work, you in turn are seen as weak or flawed. That is not Andi's style. She is someone who fancies herself as a strong person and would rather go for the jugular than pull away from a fight (JPGand Nick).  To me, this view of life is immature. She basically doesn't trust herself enough to be kind or forgiving to those who she perceives have wronged her.  Hopefully she will grow and mature and change, but this little incident (if it occured as we are discussing here) just shows that she hasn't. It's easy to smile and be gracious when things are going your way.  It's the true test of who you are when things aren't going your way.  That's when true character shows.  What I continue to see from her is a person who wants the sun to shine on her without any shadows cast. She craves the illusion of an in control, in the driver's seat, woman.  Hopefully, in her inner circle she will be able to let her guard down and be real and accept others for being real, too.  Otherwise, nobody will ever live up to her impossible standatds of perfection. JMHO.

MiaHawk wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I think my post above and posts throughout the years, indicate that TPTB have many manipulations in their bag of endless tricks.
I no longer believe after Emily's season that the show ends at the FRC.

Exactly. Look at what Arie went through with the journal.  I, personally, thought that Arie's actions were romantic (even if they were prompted by TPTB), and I thought his hurt and humiliation were real when they exploited them and him at ATFR. I feel the same way about Nick's efforts post-finale. I think his notes, calls, and attempts to meet with Andi were romantic (even if he was merely seeking proper closure), even if they were prompted by TPTB.  I guess, to me, the willingness to be vulnerable is a romantic gesture, regardless of the end result.  Others may only think something is romantic if it wins the girl in the end.  If it doesn't win the girl, it is viewed as creepy by them.  How many would feel differently about those actions if Andi would have changed her mind? Suddenly, Nick would have been seen as the most romantic man of this franchise!  I guess we all see things differently. But, since we only have control over our own actions, and not other people's reactions to them, I chose to assess romanticism based on a man's individual motivation and wilingness to bare his soul in the quest of love.  Once it was made clear to him at ATFR that Andi was not receptive, he moved on and has never looked back.  

MiaHawk wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I think my post above and posts throughout the years, indicate that TPTB have many manipulations in their bag of endless tricks.
I no longer believe after Emily's season that the show ends at the FRC.

Exactly. Look at what Arie went through with the journal.  I, personally, thought that Arie's actions were romantic (even if they were prompted by TPTB), and I thought his hurt and humiliation were real when they exploited them and him at ATFR. I feel the same way about Nick's efforts post-finale. I think his notes, calls, and attempts to meet with Andi were romantic (even if he was merely seeking proper closure), even if they were prompted by TPTB.  I guess, to me, the willingness to be vulnerable is a romantic gesture, regardless of the end result.  Others may only think something is romantic if it wins the girl in the end.  If it doesn't win the girl, it is viewed as creepy by them.  How many would feel differently about those actions if Andi would have changed her mind? Suddenly, Nick would have been seen as the most romantic man of this franchise!  I guess we all see things differently. But, since we only have control over our own actions, and not other people's reactions to them, I chose to assess romanticism based on a man's individual motivation and wilingness to bare his soul in the quest of love.  Once it was made clear to him at ATFR that Andi was not receptive, he moved on and has never looked back.