Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Sprite]

Since apparently many of them do, and Nick was the first one to spill, you might be right.  But I don't agree that Andi took advantage of Nick, and Nick doesn't either, since he said in an interview I read recently that she didn't, and that he was a fully willing participant.

I wonder about the bolded. While I don't doubt that Nick was a willing participant, I do wonder if he would have been as willing if he had known that she would sleep with both of them? It may not have mattered, but it may have. Did he specify that he feels he wasn't taken advantage of or just that he was a willing participant? To me there is a distinction.

In many ways Nick is an enigma because he didn't always do things that a typical guy would do (which is one reason why some of the guys felt he was strategizing and they didn't trust him because of it) but I think a typical guy in this very atypical situation would be a very willing participant in sex with a willing woman even if - and probably especially if - he knew that she had slept with others or was going to sleep with others. I say especially because if the guy wants the woman and she's obviously willing he would in no way want her to think he wasn't eager to have sex with her - he would fear that not doing it might signal her that he might not be a good sexual partner or might have some hangups over sex and that could reduce the likelihood that he would be chosen. A typical guy would probably want to give the performance of his life and hope that she would feel it was so much better with him than with anyone else that she would pick him over the competition.

One way a typical guy might seek to make the experience for the woman "better than his competition" would be to inject the feeling that to him it wasn't just sex - it was making love and the intimacy associated with it was very special to him.

Now this is how I believe a typical guy would have approached this situation; I don't know if this is how Nick would have looked at it. Nick was so convinced that his relationship with Andi was special and unlike anything else she could have had with any of the other guys that it may never have occurred to him that she would have sex with anyone else, so while he could have guessed and perhaps should have guessed, the thought might never have crossed his mind.

Well I work with some typical guys...a couple who I have hooked on this show...and both of them were:

A) Surprised that she had sex with both while admitting that she loved Josh and never loved Nick ... all within a span of a couple of days
B) That she was so b*tchy to Nick ... and that he was so upset
C) Glad that they were not in his shoes since they would not want to be sharing
D) Clear that they lost a lot of respect for her with that stunt

Personally, I prefer these typical guys.

[Ash2214]

^ It takes two to tango. Both Nick and Andi have said that she never told him she loved him while filming was going on. It's pretty clear now that at the very least Andi alluded to Josh that he was indeed the F1, which I think happens fairly often on this show, but the contestants never fully know until the end.

I'm all for saying Andi shouldn't have slept with Nick because I agree and I'm also all for saying I like the way Nick views sex, however, Andi wasn't the only one involved with this. Nick is not stupid. At the time, there were two guys left and according to both Andi and Nick, she never told Nick in the fantasy suite that she loved him or that he was the chosen one. He should have known that Andi sleeping with Josh or picking him (heck, even Chris was still a possibility at this point) in the end was a strong possibility. Nick made a decision to sleep with Andi just like Andi made the decision to sleep with Nick. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, many things can happen.

[quietpal]

This is not directed at any particular person, but why is something that happened over a month ago still being talked about? It seems to me based on what I've seen on these Nick threads with twitter and pics that he has moved on. I'm just trying to understand the need to keep circling this same topic. I guess it will never end. Call it the neverending story.
On another note he seems to have had a great weekend with the wedding and all. Does anyone know if he did anything for the holiday?

[Ash2214]

This is not directed at any particular person, but why is something that happened over a month ago still being talked about? It seems to me based on what I've seen on these Nick threads with twitter and pics that he has moved on. I'm just trying to understand the need to keep circling this same topic. I guess it will never end. Call it the neverending story.
On another note he seems to have had a great weekend with the wedding and all. Does anyone know if he did anything for the holiday?

It keeps being talked about because people keeping bringing it up, Nick fans included, and on other threads as well. I think like most of us have stated, it's a polarizing topic that we all have different views on. If someone posts one particular view they have on it, someone else will post their different view. It's pretty normal to have a back and forth conversation about an interesting topic, but I do agree it's old and tiresome, just like the hate towards the lead.

Hopefully once Chris' season starts to film things will die down here on this thread, but I just think people find it tricky not to share their thoughts because like I said, they're all so vastly different on this topic and thankfully, this isn't his fan forum.

[Guest]

^ It takes two to tango. Both Nick and Andi have said that she never told him she loved him while filming was going on. It's pretty clear now that at the very least Andi alluded to Josh that he was indeed the F1, which I think happens fairly often on this show, but the contestants never fully know until the end.

I'm all for saying Andi shouldn't have slept with Nick because I agree and I'm also all for saying I like the way Nick views sex, however, Andi wasn't the only one involved with this. Nick is not stupid. At the time, there were two guys left and according to both Andi and Nick, she never told Nick in the fantasy suite that she loved him or that he was the chosen one. He should have known that Andi sleeping with Josh or picking him (heck, even Chris was still a possibility at this point) in the end was a strong possibility. Nick made a decision to sleep with Andi just like Andi made the decision to sleep with Nick. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, many things can happen.    

In this situation, if I said I love you and the lead said, I wish I could tell you things back, I would take that as I love you too. (if I didn't know better from reading this board) I think it's also possible there were other things said that we don't know about. Des' season would have understandably scared the hell out of Andi. Perhaps she went too far to assure the same didn't happen to her. I think it was wrong, but she's heard about it enough. Josh especially, deserved a better ending. He's a good guy for sticking by her side through this. I'm sure it was harder than either imagined. If they can get through this, they should be good for whatever life throws at them.

[Lucas15]

In this situation, if I said I love you and the lead said, I wish I could tell you things back, I would take that as I love you too. (if I didn't know better from reading this board) I think it's also possible there were other things said that we don't know about. Des' season would have understandably scared the hell out of Andi. Perhaps she went too far to assure the same didn't happen to her. I think it was wrong, but she's heard about it enough. Josh especially, deserved a better ending. He's a good guy for sticking by her side through this. I'm sure it was harder than either imagined. If they can get through this, they should be good for whatever life throws at them.

And as to the bolded if this was reality and a lead said "I wish I could say things back" that would be an understandable assumption. Of course if this was reality, no one would actually be saying "I wish I could say things back" because they would be completely free to say anything back they wanted to say. But this isn't reality - it's a TV show and everyone on it has had to read and sign something that says, among other things (and note - what I have in bold is in bold in the contract):

I understand that the Series is an unscripted and/or reality series that may involve the element of surprise. I have been informed and understand that I should be prepared for anything, at any time during the production of the Series and that the Series may involve “twists” and that that Producer may make misrepresentations intentionally or unintentionally concerning the Series and/or any element or aspect of the Series. Said misrepresentations may be made by, without limitation, Producer, Host, other Series Participants, Producer’s affiliates and/or other parties connected to the show. Being so informed, I voluntarily agree to participate in the Series. I have received, read and understood the description of the Series (“The Series Guidelines”), as provided by Producer, and I have voluntarily applied to participate in the Series. I agree to follow all of Producer's rules, directions and instructions in all matters (including Participant selection and decisions regarding the creation and implementation of terms, conditions and rules governing the Series). I further acknowledge and agree that all Series rules are subject to change by Producer, in Producer’s sole discretion, at any time including, without limitation, while I am participating as a Participant on the Series and that Producer’s decision(s) on all matters relating to the Series and my participation therein (including Participant selection, the activities/Dates in which the Participants partake, and the manner in which the Series is produced) shall be final and binding.

The phrase "I wish I could say things back" can't be attributed to any particular lead and I have heard this exact same line in past seasons from past leads. It is, to be sure, leading someone on and is misleading but that's exactly what it's intended to be because leading people on is part of the show. The lead signs up to do it and the rest of the contestants sign up to allow it to be done to them.

Also, the lead isn't alone in leading contestants on - the producers are doing exactly the same thing, in part by giving specific phrases to be used in certain circumstances by the lead and in part because the producers can say anything they want to contestants (and for that matter to the lead as well) even though the producers know that what they are saying is completely or patially fabricated.

[Kashathediva]

In reality this is another twilight zone episode: Loop Me
Reminds me of the Gunslinger series.

[ironcat]

I wonder about the bolded. While I don't doubt that Nick was a willing participant, I do wonder if he would have been as willing if he had known that she would sleep with both of them? It may not have mattered, but it may have. Did he specify that he feels he wasn't taken advantage of or just that he was a willing participant? To me there is a distinction.

This is what he said in a Reality TV World interview from 7/31-

"...we were two consenting adults.  It wasn't like she owed me anything because that happened."

He didn't specifically say she didn't take advantage of him, but to me it's implied.  YMMV.  And again, he said it wasn't about the sex, but the intimacy, and maybe he should have articulated that a little more (to her? to us? ).

If anyone wants to link the whole article, please do.  I'm computer illiterate and don't know how.

We don't know if it would have made a difference to Nick if he knew she might be planning to sleep with Josh also, but if it did, he should have articulated that to her as well.  Maybe he did, but I have my doubts.

I always thought his point was that he relied on her actions since she couldn't express her feelings, therefore since she knew he was in love and all in, her actions led him him on. He believes you should be honest so that both are on the same page or at least aware before sex. I think Nick has casual sex. JMHO, partly based on his quirky dad's F-bombs and siblings comments. His family seems pretty open with sex.

I think the precedent was set by Reid on this. He really left no doubt and I think it was the exact same problem. Jillian's actions led him on, thus his feelings for her grew deeper and resulted in more confusion and hurt.

No doubt she led him on, that's what every lead is required to do, and any contestant who doesn't want to run the risk of being led on should definitely not sign up for this show. My comments were in response to the statement that Nick felt taken advantage of by Andi, which is not the same as being led on by her IMO.

[stuckinsc]

In reality this is another twilight zone episode: Loop Me
Reminds me of the Gunslinger series.

It is making me

[Kashathediva]

My bad. The title is actually the Dark Tower series. Excuse me Stephen.

[Guest]

This is what he said in a Reality TV World interview from 7/31-

"...we were two consenting adults.  It wasn't like she owed me anything because that happened."

He didn't specifically say she didn't take advantage of him, but to me it's implied.  YMMV.  And again, he said it wasn't about the sex, but the intimacy, and maybe he should have articulated that a little more (to her? to us? ).

If anyone wants to link the whole article, please do.  I'm computer illiterate and don't know how.

We don't know if it would have made a difference to Nick if he knew she might be planning to sleep with Josh also, but if it did, he should have articulated that to her as well.  Maybe he did, but I have my doubts.

I always thought his point was that he relied on her actions since she couldn't express her feelings, therefore since she knew he was in love and all in, her actions led him him on. He believes you should be honest so that both are on the same page or at least aware before sex. I think Nick has casual sex. JMHO, partly based on his quirky dad's F-bombs and siblings comments. His family seems pretty open with sex.

I think the precedent was set by Reid on this. He really left no doubt and I think it was the exact same problem. Jillian's actions led him on, thus his feelings for her grew deeper and resulted in more confusion and hurt.

No doubt she led him on, that's what every lead is required to do, and any contestant who doesn't want to run the risk of being led on should definitely not sign up for this show.  My comments were in response to the statement that Nick felt taken advantage of by Andi, which is not the same as being led on by her IMO.

The lead led him on with sex in this case. I sure hope that's not a requirement. I don't see much difference between leading him on with the sex and taking advantage of him. When a man does that to a woman, there's no distinction.

[happygolucky]

I'm not Rihanna's fan ... but I've liked this song since hearing it and knowing who wrote it and been waiting for official video to post ... for Nick and anyone who has an opinion of him (whatever it might be):

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