Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Lucas15]

There is also the possibility that other requests came in and once he was no longer required by the show to give interviews that Nick was not interested.

The term of the contract which requires a contestant to do publicity related appearances begins on the date of signing the agreement and ends 12 months after the final episode of the series. So Nick would still be contractually required to do appearances if the show asked him to up until July 28, 2015.

[Kashathediva]

Did it recently change? I had thought it was 2 yrs after signing.

[stuckinsc]

There is also the possibility that other requests came in and once he was no longer required by the show to give interviews that Nick was not interested.

The term of the contract which requires a contestant to do publicity related appearances begins on the date of signing the agreement and ends 12 months after the final episode of the series. So Nick would still be contractually required to do appearances if the show asked him to up until July 28, 2015.

Every publicity that the show requires. I am not sure that the show is requiring it of Nick anymore. They had moved on to BiP and pimping out their bachelor competition. They got their shock and awe and have moved on.

[Lucas15]

Did it recently change? I had thought it was 2 yrs after signing.

It may be 2 years now; my copy is a relatively old one and in it the wording is:

B. Publicity and Promotion: From the date of this Agreement and continuing for twelve (12) months following the date on which the Series episode in which the Bachelor selects the final Bachelorette is first broadcast, if and when requested by Producer, I agree to be available, subject to existing professional commitments, for publicity interviews, publicity photograph sittings, still photographs, on-the-air and other publicity activities. During this time, I agree Producer may film, tape, audio/video record my likeness and broadcast or otherwise distribute such recordings worldwide in perpetuity.

Every publicity that the show requires. I am not sure that the show is requiring it of Nick anymore. They had moved on to BiP and pimping out their bachelor competition. They got their shock and awe and have moved on.

And I agree. Nick would still have to do publicity if the show required it, but I don't think the show is making any new requests nor do I think they are likely to.

[stuckinsc]

Did it recently change? I had thought it was 2 yrs after signing.

It may be 2 years now; my copy is a relatively old one and in it the wording is:

B. Publicity and Promotion: From the date of this Agreement and continuing for twelve (12) months following the date on which the Series episode in which the Bachelor selects the final Bachelorette is first broadcast, if and when requested by Producer, I agree to be available, subject to existing professional commitments, for publicity interviews, publicity photograph sittings, still photographs, on-the-air and other publicity activities. During this time, I agree Producer may film, tape, audio/video record my likeness and broadcast or otherwise distribute such recordings worldwide in perpetuity.

Every publicity that the show requires. I am not sure that the show is requiring it of Nick anymore. They had moved on to BiP and pimping out their bachelor competition. They got their shock and awe and have moved on.

And I agree. Nick would still have to do publicity if the show required it, but I don't think the show is making any new requests nor do I think they are likely to.

We discussed in the fan thread, that one of the alum was trying to reach him for an auction or something related to the show and he didn't do it. I think his actions so far say that he is getting back to life and moving on having taken responsibility for his actions and learned.

[Lucas15]

Since apparently many of them do, and Nick was the first one to spill, you might be right.  But I don't agree that Andi took advantage of Nick, and Nick doesn't either, since he said in an interview I read recently that she didn't, and that he was a fully willing participant.

I wonder about the bolded. While I don't doubt that Nick was a willing participant, I do wonder if he would have been as willing if he had known that she would sleep with both of them? It may not have mattered, but it may have. Did he specify that he feels he wasn't taken advantage of or just that he was a willing participant? To me there is a distinction.

In many ways Nick is an enigma because he didn't always do things that a typical guy would do (which is one reason why some of the guys felt he was strategizing and they didn't trust him because of it) but I think a typical guy in this very atypical situation would be a very willing participant in sex with a willing woman even if - and probably especially if - he knew that she had slept with others or was going to sleep with others. I say especially because if the guy wants the woman and she's obviously willing he would in no way want her to think he wasn't eager to have sex with her - he would fear that not doing it might signal her that he might not be a good sexual partner or might have some hangups over sex and that could reduce the likelihood that he would be chosen. A typical guy would probably want to give the performance of his life and hope that she would feel it was so much better with him than with anyone else that she would pick him over the competition.

One way a typical guy might seek to make the experience for the woman "better than his competition" would be to inject the feeling that to him it wasn't just sex - it was making love and the intimacy associated with it was very special to him.

Now this is how I believe a typical guy would have approached this situation; I don't know if this is how Nick would have looked at it. Nick was so convinced that his relationship with Andi was special and unlike anything else she could have had with any of the other guys that it may never have occurred to him that she would have sex with anyone else, so while he could have guessed and perhaps should have guessed, the thought might never have crossed his mind.

[stuckinsc]

I really hate the typical guy talk. I have four brothers who each approached relationships differently and even sex differently. My three serious relationships have been with three men who were very different again in their attitudes to sex and love.

Not every man is the same. One of my brothers married the first woman he had sex with. To him that meant that much, she was a wretched creature who cheated on him whenever he was deployed and broke his heart. It changed him. But he adored her, to him it was special to share that.

Most I know, guys included, probably assume that once love has been expressed then it is making love. I would not respect a man or woman who chose to have sex only with someone who has told them they loved them. If you don't feel the same as the person you are with, you should let them know or abstain.

Nick has repeatedly shown that he is not the average guy who went on this show.

He watched Des's season, which if you are cast as the bachelorette is probably smart, but has not said he watched more than that. Des really only seemed to have sex if she did at all with one guy. Would it have been different if Brooks stayed, who is to tell, but it may have given Nick false expectations. Had he watched Ashley's season maybe he would have seen that a lead can be close to two men and still only chose one. Who knows?

I think of Nick can be an acquired taste. He didn't appeal to me at first but seeing him genuinely fall for Andi and show us who he was, he won me over.

Sex has never been a requirement of the fantasy suite. Bryon, Charlie, Sean and even Emily all proved this.

[SueSt]

I really hate the typical guy talk.  I have four brothers who each approached relationships differently and even sex differently.  My three serious relationships have been with three men who were very different again in their attitudes to sex and love.

Not every man is the same.  One of my brothers married the first woman he had sex with.  To him that meant that much, she was a wretched creature who cheated on him whenever he was deployed and broke his heart.  It changed him.  But he adored her, to him it was special to share that.

Most I know, guys included, probably assume that once love has been expressed then it is making love.  I would not respect a man or woman who chose to have sex only with someone who has told them they loved them.  If you don't feel the same as the person you are with, you should let them know or abstain.

Nick has repeatedly shown that he is not the average guy who went on this show.

He watched Des's season, which if you are cast as the bachelorette is probably smart, but has not said he watched more than that.  Des really only seemed to have sex if she did at all with one guy.  Would it have been different if Brooks stayed, who is to tell, but it may have given Nick false expectations.  Had he watched Ashley's season maybe he would have seen that a lead can be close to two men and still only chose one.  Who knows?

I think of Nick can be an acquired taste.  He didn't appeal to me at first but seeing him genuinely fall for Andi and show us who he was, he won me over.

Sex has never been a requirement of the fantasy suite.  Bryon, Charlie, Sean and even Emily all proved this.

Great Post, stuckinsc!

[GuardianAngel]

We discussed in the fan thread, that one of the alum was trying to reach him for an auction or something related to the show and he didn't do it.  I think his actions so far say that he is getting back to life and moving on having taken responsibility for his actions and learned.

That was Michael Stagliano for an event at the Toronto International Film Festival TIFF being held next weekend! It was speculated in the fan thread, Nick must have declined the invitation for a "paid" appearance according to Michael's tweet, because his name was not included when the advertisement came out.

We are giving away a pair of tickets to next week (Sep 5)’s Eligible Magazine’s exclusive TIFF Bachelor Party where you will party with stars of ABC’s Bachelor in Paradise, formerly of The Bachelorette.

Celebrity guests that will be in attendance include Graham Bunn, Zach Kalter, Chris Bukowski, Robert Graham and Michael Stagliano (of The Bachelorette and Bachelor Pad).

TIFF

[Guest]

Since apparently many of them do, and Nick was the first one to spill, you might be right.  But I don't agree that Andi took advantage of Nick, and Nick doesn't either, since he said in an interview I read recently that she didn't, and that he was a fully willing participant.

I wonder about the bolded. While I don't doubt that Nick was a willing participant, I do wonder if he would have been as willing if he had known that she would sleep with both of them? It may not have mattered, but it may have. Did he specify that he feels he wasn't taken advantage of or just that he was a willing participant? To me there is a distinction.

This is what he said in a Reality TV World interview from 7/31-

"...we were two consenting adults.  It wasn't like she owed me anything because that happened."

He didn't specifically say she didn't take advantage of him, but to me it's implied.  YMMV.  And again, he said it wasn't about the sex, but the intimacy, and maybe he should have articulated that a little more (to her? to us? ).

If anyone wants to link the whole article, please do.  I'm computer illiterate and don't know how.

We don't know if it would have made a difference to Nick if he knew she might be planning to sleep with Josh also, but if it did, he should have articulated that to her as well.  Maybe he did, but I have my doubts.

I always thought his point was that he relied on her actions since she couldn't express her feelings, therefore since she knew he was in love and all in, her actions led him him on. He believes you should be honest so that both are on the same page or at least aware before sex. I think Nick has casual sex. JMHO, partly based on his quirky dad's F-bombs and siblings comments. His family seems pretty open with sex.

I think the precedent was set by Reid on this. He really left no doubt and I think it was the exact same problem. Jillian's actions led him on, thus his feelings for her grew deeper and resulted in more confusion and hurt.

[mindless]

I really hate the typical guy talk.  I have four brothers who each approached relationships differently and even sex differently.  My three serious relationships have been with three men who were very different again in their attitudes to sex and love.

Same here. We're all humans regardless of gender. When it comes to this show, my boyfriend finds the mere kissing of several people during a small time frame disgusting, let alone having sex with them. And it's not like he's some reborn virgin, who's never had casual sex. No, he's just a romantic and thinks you can only really be into one person at a time. I guess I see some of that in Nick, since he was so convinced Andi couldn't possibly have as strong a connection with anyone else. And if he indeed thought Andi was expressing her love by making love with him, then I highly doubt it even crossed his mind that she'd be doing the same with someone else a few days later. I also think it's safe to say that Andi didn't express much hesitation or tell him not to read too much into it, since he would have no case at all if she had. Who knows what would've happened if she'd expressed her stance, but I don't see Nick treating sex as some competition to impress the woman he's in love with. I mean he didn't even want to propose, if he wasn't sure that he was IT for Andi. I didn't take it as him being unsure about being F1, but being unsure that he's The One for her, not just the best option available in the confines of this show. That's how seriously he was treating it from what I could tell.

[SueSt]

I wonder about the bolded. While I don't doubt that Nick was a willing participant, I do wonder if he would have been as willing if he had known that she would sleep with both of them? It may not have mattered, but it may have. Did he specify that he feels he wasn't taken advantage of or just that he was a willing participant? To me there is a distinction.

This is what he said in a Reality TV World interview from 7/31-

"...we were two consenting adults.  It wasn't like she owed me anything because that happened."

He didn't specifically say she didn't take advantage of him, but to me it's implied.  YMMV.  And again, he said it wasn't about the sex, but the intimacy, and maybe he should have articulated that a little more (to her? to us? ).

If anyone wants to link the whole article, please do.  I'm computer illiterate and don't know how.

We don't know if it would have made a difference to Nick if he knew she might be planning to sleep with Josh also, but if it did, he should have articulated that to her as well.  Maybe he did, but I have my doubts.

I always thought his point was that he relied on her actions since she couldn't express her feelings, therefore since she knew he was in love and all in, her actions led him him on. He believes you should be honest so that both are on the same page or at least aware before sex. I think Nick has casual sex. JMHO, partly based on his quirky dad's F-bombs and siblings comments. His family seems pretty open with sex.

I think the precedent was set by Reid on this. He really left no doubt and I think it was the exact same problem. Jillian's actions led him on, thus his feelings for her grew deeper and resulted in more confusion and hurt.

Good post, Grace.

Nick said in his post-ATFR blog that sex is fine between two consenting adults AS LONG as they agree on expectations. The problem for Nick as you note is that his/Andi's expectations were not aligned.... and she led him to believe that they were!!

You mention Reid... Jillian actually acknowledged that she fell in love with two people on her season... and how her decision tore her apart. ... AND most importantly she demonstrated real and authentic empathy for Reid when she finally saw him at ATFR... and so I had VERY different feelings about that season and Jillian as a result...

I always said, Andi is entitled to choose whoever she wanted, but the way she led Nick on was inexcusable... and worse, the lack of empathy or consideration she showed him when she broke up with him, at ATFR and in all the post - show media has made me loose all respect for her.

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