Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

Kashathediva wrote:The thing is Nick was not given closure at the very least and perhaps at the very most was encouraged by TPTB to get closure. 
We will never know for sure what lengths TPTB went to to encourage Nick to follow up and get closure with MeandI.
 According to TPTB, he reached out during her Mexico trip(which had to have been producer manipulation in order for him to even know MeandI's travel plans), he reached out during the MTN, a producer went to MKE and sought him out again. 
It's not as if Nick was left on his own to process the situation for 2 months after his dismissal. He had no closure and it appears he was not allowed closure by TPTB.
Then he is given the opportunity for closure and has questions, but he is not allowed to question MeandI. She gets into full Duck face mode. You do not question her, as Eric found out. She never loved Nick, plain and simple, move on dolt. Move on. So he questions her again and gets more of the same. So he pushes the envelope and blatantly questions how her FS actions lined up with the feelings she is saying she had.
Maybe he regrets what he said. It was not gentlemanly. There aren't excuses. I can't remember if he apologized or not. But I know there were no apologies from MeandI. I would not expect any.

I can only imagine the couple's disgust at the producer use of Nick's sorrow (if bona fide, which I actually reject -- I think he was more embarrassed and vengeful than heartbroken) as a means to manufacture ATFR drama.  I can only imagine what goes through one's head as the Plan sinks in, and one has to play it out on Live Television.  I forgive all of them their responses.  Josh and Andi rebuffed it together in Mexico (whatever that footage was, it was obviously Too Stupid to even clear the very low bar of making it to the air).  Then they fly him out for MTA for Different Stupid Footage.  Then the "LETTER"... which they lamely post to the friggin' FACEBOOK PAGE, which was also Stupid (and again, 100% tracks his ITMs and his STORY BOARD, and read as largely written for him not by him).

I think the Comparatively Happy Ending and Extremely Happy Couple threw the show a huge challenge for how to approach the last episode, and they've been jamming around for weeks or months on what to do.  I bet they cut and recut that final episode 15 times before getting it to what we saw last night.  

Andi is being portrayed on this board by some as someone incapable of self-less love, yet her edit during the show often revealed her to be a person of compassion in fact.  And today, even Dreadful Deanna --  who is the reason this nasty "Meandi" name was coined by someone I forget whom is a devoted wife and mother.  

So, I cut Andi a break.  She actually had the most real, least scripted, interactions with her guys of any female or male lead I can recall.  Compared to Emily or even Des, she asked smart questions, pushed for more, and realistically faked being on a FUN DATE with the guys in group settings and 1:1 settings that must have been nothing but awkward in reality, as her heart lay with (probably) just a couple of guys, once the sporty good fun of kissing Marcus didn't blossom into something more.  

Like Clare and what JPG whispered to her at helicopter,  or even poor Reid having to see Jillian, these confrontations are what is most appalling about this show, but that's the entertainment they are presenting on the theory you also can't look away, and net-net the Shocking Stuff expands viewership.  Season after season, they engineer some train wreck for the ATFR, and the "LIVE FINALE" element has put them under huge pressure to do so.

This year, I do not blame Andi one bit for being frosty with Nick, and I'm sure at some point she also feels bad for him he is being put up to a Confrontation, and she (feeilng inside rather Salty and Juan Pablo-like herself) just is refusing to give them that television.

This season was good and properly spoiled by US Weekly, Life & Style, and Steve Carbone.  The producers were leakers and for God's sakes, Nick told us the whole story on that plane everyone wasted so much ink challenging.

And P.S. -- I too thought Andi didn't carry off her little FRC speech about loving Josh very well -- she didn't match his sincerity or depth.  Or it just didn't convey.  But I can see she is over the moon, going to marry the guy now, and I'll take that.

ironcat wrote:

emusha wrote:

ironcat wrote:Thanks for the clarification.  It's all good.    I guess my attitude is since I don't know these people and don't expect to ever know these people, I don't really care that much.  Besides, I have blood pressure issues, and can't let it affect my health.  

I agree that no doubt the producers were very instrumental in orchestrating Nick's post show pursuit of Andi, from encouraging him to seek her out, to having her turn down meeting with him, to having him write the letter, to having CH egg on the confrontation at ATFR.  They got just what they wanted out of both of them.  And no way were they going to let any of that happen off camera in private.  Too bad Nick didn't just tell them to shove it, but I guess he was too heartbroken, and maybe they did have him by the balls because of the plane video.

i get that as well -- i admit i'm taking it wayy harder than i should    ...   that is the exact attitude i need to adopt to realize that this type of machination and manupilation with zero sensitivity is the best ingredient for this show and that's just the way it its with this show...I think past leads have handled things with much more compassion, empathy, vulnerability including sean, jillian   

I agree that other leads have handled it better.  Andi the Prosecutor really came out last night.  One good thing might be that her attitude hopefully provided a big step in Nick getting over her.  And it sure confirmed for me that despite what it looked like on the edited show, these two actually weren't right for each other in the real world.  Andi really needs someone like Josh who is less complicated, loosens her up and cajoles her out of her intensity, not someone like Nick who is equally intense/analytical and winds her up IMO.

So true on the bolded. Josh even said on jkl that he tells her to turn the over-thinking off and although it doesn't work all the time since she's a total nut in that sense, it clearly is exactly what she needs. She and Nick would have been a hot mess together imo.

I actually think the bachette sleeping with her F2 occurs more than it doesn't. I believe both Emily and Ashley did...it worked one and not another. I don't think it affected JP and Ash at all. I wish Andi, Josh, and Nick all the best in the future.

isittrue wrote:

emusha wrote:

Tnmomof4 wrote:In regards to Andi's treatment of Nick last night.
  No one here knows what Andi was told by producers prior to coming on stage.  In the past I remember people saying that producers tend to rile people up.  Jerry was told that Jen wanted him to propose, so he did and was rebuffed, to name a time this happened.  Producers could have told Andi that Nick was going to try to get her to give him a second chance and that Josh was all wrong for her (which they had been implying to the audience all along).  Therefore she came out defensive and determined to get her message across.  We don't know the half of what really went on so I don't think any of us are in  position to pass judgement on anyone, Andi or Nick.

andi had a chance to communicate with nick prior to the show to give him closure...emails have been exchanged in the past (melissa/jason/molly) there's no reason this debacle should have happened like it did. her tone of voice was completely unwarranted.

Exactly, Nick may have crossed the line, but Andi drove him to it with her coldness and refusal to talk to him.  This all could have been avoided IMO.

But why did she have to? She knew that he would be able to confront her at the ATFR, and who's to say that it wasn't strongly encouraged by TPTB not to speak to him until then?

Every season people go home hurt ; it's the nature of the show. Every season the lead gets bashed for it . Some F2's are more humble than others . It is what it is. I never thought Nick would handle rejection very well, and he didn't . I think he forgot to remember there was actually another man in Andi's life . My hope is he will move on and stop dwelling on what might have been.. Life is too short !!  

jlccaz wrote:

I can only imagine the couple's disgust at the producer use of Nick's sorrow (if bona fide, which I actually reject -- I think he was more embarrassed and vengeful than heartbroken) as a means to manufacture ATFR drama.  I can only imagine what goes through one's head as the Plan sinks in, and one has to play it out on Live Television.  I forgive all of them their responses.  Josh and Andi rebuffed it together in Mexico (whatever that footage was, it was obviously Too Stupid to even clear the very low bar of making it to the air).  Then they fly him out for MTA for Different Stupid Footage.  Then the "LETTER"... which they lamely post to the friggin' FACEBOOK PAGE, which was also Stupid (and again, 100% tracks his ITMs and his STORY BOARD, and read as largely written for him not by him).

I think the Comparatively Happy Ending and Extremely Happy Couple threw the show a huge challenge for how to approach the last episode, and they've been jamming around for weeks or months on what to do.  I bet they cut and recut that final episode 15 times before getting it to what we saw last night.  

Andi is being portrayed on this board by some as someone incapable of self-less love, yet her edit during the show often revealed her to be a person of compassion in fact.  And today, even Dreadful Deanna --  who is the reason this nasty "Meandi" name was coined by someone I forget whom is a devoted wife and mother.  

So, I cut Andi a break.  She actually had the most real, least scripted, interactions with her guys of any female or male lead I can recall.  Compared to Emily or even Des, she asked smart questions, pushed for more, and realistically faked being on a FUN DATE with the guys in group settings and 1:1 settings that must have been nothing but awkward in reality, as her heart lay with (probably) just a couple of guys, once the sporty good fun of kissing Marcus didn't blossom into something more.  

Like Clare and what JPG whispered to her at helicopter,  or even poor Reid having to see Jillian, these confrontations are what is most appalling about this show, but that's the entertainment they are presenting on the theory you also can't look away, and net-net the Shocking Stuff expands viewership.  Season after season, they engineer some train wreck for the ATFR, and the "LIVE FINALE" element has put them under huge pressure to do so.

This year, I do not blame Andi one bit for being frosty with Nick, and I'm sure at some point she also feels bad for him he is being put up to a Confrontation, and she (feeilng inside rather Salty and Juan Pablo-like herself) just is refusing to give them that television.

This season was good and properly spoiled by US Weekly, Life & Style, and Steve Carbone.  The producers were leakers and for God's sakes, Nick told us the whole story on that plane everyone wasted so much ink challenging.

And P.S. -- I too thought Andi didn't carry off her little FRC speech about loving Josh very well -- she didn't match his sincerity or depth.  Or it just didn't convey.  But I can see she is over the moon, going to marry the guy now, and I'll take that.

I don't know why I post. I should just stalk you on the board and write "Yeah. That." after each of your posts. Agree completely!

I definitely agree that Nick shouldn't have said it & I'm sure his parents aren't thrilled but Andi's parents should wonder where they went wrong with her total lack of empathy towards him. It does make me think she was the princess growing up, especially with her dad. She seemed much kinder to the guys that she wasn't really into. If she was totally faking it with Nick which is certainly didn't look like at the time, it's even worse because she could have brought one of the other guys who weren't as into her as he was. Why not Chris if he's going to end up TB anyway?   

Oh well, moving on. I'm okay if Chris is TB because I'm definitely not invested in him.

Andi is the worst bachelorette ever. I just hated this ATFR. She looked so snooty and cold. Such a liar and hypocrite.
So painful to watch.
Late Eric had such good judgement. He managed to see through her acting mask and got out in time.
Nick didn't get this chance. He got swallowed by this nasty praying mantis...

LOL love the praying mantis visual.
per wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis
"90% of the predatory species of mantis participate in sexual cannibalism. The female may begin feeding by biting off the male’s head."


MeandI certainly did bite off Nick's head! No question there! 
It's quite amazing Nick was able to survive, afterall! 
I'm praying for Josh. Or is MeandI preying for Josh?

I knew it wasn't going to be pretty, and the ATFR did not disappoint. I personally don't think Andi should have slept with Nick if she wasn't 100% sure that he was her F1. JMO. That said, IA that it doesn't justify Nick's reveal. For all the analyzing that he does, he's not able to articulate sensitively to save his life. He somehow manages to make things worse. And I think that, coupled with Nick's persistence and her knowledge of the plane video, is why Andi went into that meeting with boxing gloves on. Totally different than with Chris. True, she didn't go as far with Chris, but I think even if she did, he would have still been a class act and Andi would have been much more sensitive and warm singing his praises, like at the MTA. I'm in no way minimizing Nick's hurt. But he watched the show himself, and had he watched the interactions with Josh (which is what you should do if your looking for answers), he would have seen why Andi made the choice she made, and he could have respected her for it. He doesn't have to agree, but when you respect someone, there are just some things you don't say about them. I do sympathize with Nick getting hurt, but I don't agree with the way he handled himself at all. You attract more bees with honey.

This guy has been a rollercoaster for me. I loved him, then was annoyed by him, then confused because his eye contact was all over the place, then found him to be selfish. I ended up liking his LCD and felt so bad for him during the MTP because he was so nervous. I almost cried when Andi said goodbye the morning of the FRC, it was painful and clearly he was blindsided. And then last night. Sigh.   

albean99 wrote:I definitely agree that Nick shouldn't have said it & I'm sure his parents aren't thrilled but Andi's parents should wonder where they went wrong with her total lack of empathy towards him. It does make me think she was the princess growing up, especially with her dad. She seemed much kinder to the guys that she wasn't really into. If she was totally faking it with Nick which is certainly didn't look like at the time, it's even worse because she could have brought one of the other guys who weren't as into her as he was. Why not Chris if he's going to end up TB anyway?    

Oh well, moving on. I'm okay if Chris is TB because I'm definitely not invested in him.

I think it's probably easier to be kind to the ones you're not into, crazy as that sounds. Andi may be gaga over Josh now, but I suspect that she really did think long and hard about taking the "road less traveled" with Nick. If she was faking it, it was only at the very end IMO. And while ultimately she made the right choice for her, it's because of how close and vulnerable she did get with Nick that I imagine she is feeling more defensive of her choice, and less willing to placate/be magnanimous. Kind of the not so pretty side of human nature.

sde1041 wrote:Andi is the worst bachelorette ever. I just hated this ATFR. She looked so snooty and cold. Such a liar and hypocrite.
So painful to watch.
Late Eric had such good judgement. He managed to see through her acting mask and got out in time.
Nick didn't get this chance. He got swallowed by this nasty praying mantis...

Didnt feel she was cold or acting at all last nite, she was pissed and rightfully so. I mean here is a man who has twice tried to get in contact with her after she refused. This is how the show goes, the f2 gets rejected and he gets some closure at the AFTR. In his case Nick thought he was the exception and should have the right to tell her she was wrong in her decision and why, because he said himself he watched many seasons and bragged to the boys in the house he knew how this worked. He bragged about he knew he would marry Andi bold statements to make considering, she was dating mulitiple men at the same time. I get how he was feeling but i never saw were she ever once told him she loved him. Yes if they did have sex, as somene else posted his date was approximately 11 days before she finally made her decision. Was it right NO, but what he mistook as "making love" she felt was just sex. As many leads have said and as their chosen ones have stated, their relationship becomes exclusive once they are engaged.
Nick for whatever reason felt like he needed to embarrass Andi, so he went below the belt, but in my opionion this only makes him look like a deseperate man. He became quite obbsessed with an "engaged woman" after it was all said and done. Why would you continue to persue a woman who is engaged to another man? I get you want closure but, after the first attempt, let it go, or just send letter to the producers and if she choses to read so be it, if not then move on. At the AFTR he should have done like most f2 and just humbled himself and chalk it up to she had a greater connection with someone else. But his ego will not allow it, because as she stated he will marry her, as he stated in his PI after Chris was let go, I dont know why she didnt let them both go. Really Nick looks like your confidence my friend came back to bite you in the butt.
I wish him nothing but the best but, it is goinng on almost 3 months now, time to get over it and move on.
You saw it on T.V and it is obvious she did start to pull away, he himself admitted that in the Airplane tape.