Bachelorette 10 - Andi Dorfman - Episode 10 - MTP-LCD-FRC- July 28/14 *Spoilers & Sleuthing* #2 - Discussion

So, last night I had to play tennis, and couldn't watch the show until late. On the way home my friend calls and says, "Oh My God." I said, "DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING!" Haha - she almost spoiled the whole ending.

My husband watched the ATFR segment with me (reluctantly, but I was hogging the den TV) and he really felt sorry for Nick, with the shaking and all. But, when he "kissed and told" that broke it. He said, "I wonder if his mother is proud of him now."

Gentlemanly behavior is preached to our sons on a regular basis. I don't care what she did or didn't do, he had a choice to be a gentleman and he chose not to be one. Period.

Alanna wrote:I only wish Andi would have answered Nick's fs remark with "and that's why Josh is the one I love" but as entertaining as that would have been, I don't think it would have won her too many points.

haha I was thinking the same thing Alanna....when NickSalty stated what he did i sure nuff would have said YUP and that is why i chose Josh cause he rocked my world. Song comes to mind Katy Perry "Firework"   

In regards to Andi's treatment of Nick last night.
  No one here knows what Andi was told by producers prior to coming on stage.  In the past I remember people saying that producers tend to rile people up.  Jerry was told that Jen wanted him to propose, so he did and was rebuffed, to name a time this happened.  Producers could have told Andi that Nick was going to try to get her to give him a second chance and that Josh was all wrong for her (which they had been implying to the audience all along).  Therefore she came out defensive and determined to get her message across.  We don't know the half of what really went on so I don't think any of us are in  position to pass judgement on anyone, Andi or Nick.

Tnmomof4 wrote:In regards to Andi's treatment of Nick last night.
  No one here knows what Andi was told by producers prior to coming on stage.  In the past I remember people saying that producers tend to rile people up.  Jerry was told that Jen wanted him to propose, so he did and was rebuffed, to name a time this happened.  Producers could have told Andi that Nick was going to try to get her to give him a second chance and that Josh was all wrong for her (which they had been implying to the audience all along).  Therefore she came out defensive and determined to get her message across.  We don't know the half of what really went on so I don't think any of us are in  position to pass judgement on anyone, Andi or Nick.

True, but when has that ever stopped us??!!     

ironcat wrote:Thanks for the clarification.  It's all good.    I guess my attitude is since I don't know these people and don't expect to ever know these people, I don't really care that much.  Besides, I have blood pressure issues, and can't let it affect my health.  

I agree that no doubt the producers were very instrumental in orchestrating Nick's post show pursuit of Andi, from encouraging him to seek her out, to having her turn down meeting with him, to having him write the letter, to having CH egg on the confrontation at ATFR.  They got just what they wanted out of both of them.  And no way were they going to let any of that happen off camera in private.  Too bad Nick didn't just tell them to shove it, but I guess he was too heartbroken, and maybe they did have him by the balls because of the plane video.

i get that as well -- i admit i'm taking it wayy harder than i should    ...   that is the exact attitude i need to adopt to realize that this type of machination and manupilation with zero sensitivity is the best ingredient for this show and that's just the way it its with this show...I think past leads have handled things with much more compassion, empathy, vulnerability including sean, jillian   

Very honest re-hash of the situation on Hoda and Kathy Lee. Funny.  Sad. Lasted a good 5+ minutes.  
The machine got the goods last night with MeandI being called out on her behavior and Nick crossing the line. They should be ecstatic.  

Tnmomof4 wrote:In regards to Andi's treatment of Nick last night.
  No one here knows what Andi was told by producers prior to coming on stage.  In the past I remember people saying that producers tend to rile people up.  Jerry was told that Jen wanted him to propose, so he did and was rebuffed, to name a time this happened.  Producers could have told Andi that Nick was going to try to get her to give him a second chance and that Josh was all wrong for her (which they had been implying to the audience all along).  Therefore she came out defensive and determined to get her message across.  We don't know the half of what really went on so I don't think any of us are in  position to pass judgement on anyone, Andi or Nick.

andi had a chance to communicate with nick prior to the show to give him closure...emails have been exchanged in the past (melissa/jason/molly) there's no reason this debacle should have happened like it did. her tone of voice was completely unwarranted.

emusha wrote:

Tnmomof4 wrote:In regards to Andi's treatment of Nick last night.
  No one here knows what Andi was told by producers prior to coming on stage.  In the past I remember people saying that producers tend to rile people up.  Jerry was told that Jen wanted him to propose, so he did and was rebuffed, to name a time this happened.  Producers could have told Andi that Nick was going to try to get her to give him a second chance and that Josh was all wrong for her (which they had been implying to the audience all along).  Therefore she came out defensive and determined to get her message across.  We don't know the half of what really went on so I don't think any of us are in  position to pass judgement on anyone, Andi or Nick.

andi had a chance to communicate with nick prior to the show to give him closure...emails have been exchanged in the past (melissa/jason/molly) there's no reason this debacle should have happened like it did. her tone of voice was completely unwarranted.

Exactly, Nick may have crossed the line, but Andi drove him to it with her coldness and refusal to talk to him. This all could have been avoided IMO.

So coming into this the morning after.  Only found out about the "controversy" this am reading an article on Yahoo.  

What does everyone think about the small amount of time TPTB gave to the "happy" couple?  No re-run of the magic proposal, and of Andi's journey to find her one true love!

TPTB love nothing more than drama and controversy, dirt sells is the Mike Fleiss' philosophy.  This is a repeat of the Reid Jillian AFTR, but on steroids.

I don't for a minute believe that Reid came back on his own; he was encouraged to come back, the same way Jeremy was encouraged to come back at F3 with Deanna. They tried it once, it worked, wrote a new storyboard and gave it to Reid, who fell for it hook, line and sinker, or the cynic in me thinks that he (Reid) loves being in media.

This time TPTB had a good reason to storyboard the "unrequited love" scenario.  Nick stupidly said things in public that were recorded and played for all to hear.  I'm sure they were all rubbing their hands in glee at what they had.  

Even as a live feed, there is a slight delay; remember Justin Timberlake and Janet Jackson's live show at the Superbowl.  I'm sure TPTB did not know that Nick was going to bring up that he and Andi did the "mambo" in the FS, but they sure were hoping he would, as Kasha said, there was a reason why it was left in the edit.

I wish the "happy" couple all the best, did not care one way or another which guy she chose.  Will be interesting to see if this one lasts, although she may be just too darned hornery to allow it to crumble as others have.

ag54 wrote:So, last night I had to play tennis, and couldn't watch the show until late.  On the way home my friend calls and says, "Oh My God." I said, "DON'T TELL ME ANYTHING!"  Haha - she almost spoiled the whole ending.  

My husband watched the ATFR segment with me (reluctantly, but I was hogging the den TV) and he really felt sorry for Nick, with the shaking and all. But, when he "kissed and told" that broke it.  He said, "I wonder if his mother is proud of him now."
 
Gentlemanly behavior is preached to our sons on a regular basis.  I don't care what she did or didn't do, he had a choice to be a gentleman and he chose not to be one. Period.

   I have two sons, and as their mother who has hopefully taught them very well, if one of them were to have done what Nick did, I would be embarrassed and not proud at that moment, no matter where that came from within them. I would know that I personally taught them better. I believe they would be mortified after the fact, and as their mother, I would forgive them. But in Andi's shoes, I don't feel she owes Nick forgiveness, but hopefully for her sake she will and that is the end of that. Nick will have the support of his family, friends and fans, and hopefully has regretted going that far with what he disclosed. We all do make mistakes, and that was one in my opinion. I learn best from mine, hopefully to never repeat them, so I wish that for both Andi and Nick.

emusha wrote:

ironcat wrote:Just to clarify, according to my calculations, Andi would have slept with Nick about 11 days before getting engaged to Josh.  Yes, it's not much time, but it's also not a day or two before, as some seem to think.

Do I think it was a wise move on her part?  Absolutely not, and I'd like to think I wouldn't have done it had I been in her shoes.  But I also don't think that it completely absolves Nick of making their private details public in front of millions of strangers, because to be honest, what exactly did he expect her to say that would have truly provided him with any more insight as to what went wrong for him, or would give him closure, and what did he accomplish other than embarrassing her?  Maybe it salved his ego a little, and he definitely got some revenge because a lot of viewers are now hating on her, even if that wasn't his intention.  Definitely not one of his proudest moments, and I actually suspect in hindsight, Nick would agree.

Regarding the comparisons with what Reid did, just want to state that Reid only implied that something may have gone on in the FS, but he never outright claimed it did, and he did it in a much more charming and light hearted way, IMO.

If you follow the dialogue Nick wasn't trying to get revenge in that conversation...he was trying to earn validation that he wasn't crazy to think she had feelings for him and that she was falling for him -- his experience of their relationship seemed drastically different from what she's describing
CH asked if andi ever loved sides or or aspects of nick
andi said she never told nick she loved him and was very careful not to say that (pretty much saying that no...she didn't love him)
Nick tried to insinuate -- "but the moments shared between us" indicated more to him and how she was with him it felt not like what she's describing "it must not feel good to not have it reciprocated" nick responds "it felt like you did [reciprocate]" after these series of exchanges...with andi doing her utter best to completely deny any feelings for him...for his sanity nick proceeded to tentatively and extremely hesitantly draw out a concrete question that to him showed that she had feelings the level of intimacy she shared...and he felt it necessary for his own sanity at this point because andi was pretty much denying any feelings she's ever had with him. Nick also tried to talk with her in person at MTA, Mexico and other times Andi refused. why??

I thought it was interesting that we didn't see Andi say no to meeting with Nick. Chris H said she said no. For all we know, Chris told her that she was contractually obligated to stay out of touch with him until the ATFR. I must be as cold as Andi because I saw no issue with the way she acted last night. She said it might come off blunt, but that she felt more for Josh then she did for Nick. He followed that up with his bomb. And I think it was most definitely coming from a place of cruelty or revenge because all he needed to say was, "Knowing how in love I was, why would you be so intimate with me on our fantasy date." It sure took long enough for him to spit out the words. He could have been more careful. But for all I know, and I suspect this to be true, every single thing Nick said last night was scripted by TPTB.

I had the luxury of watching on the West Coast with my sister, after I'd read about the Jimmy Kimmel interview and seen the Instagrams and tweets that proved everyone was fine.  From that lens, the whole thing was high-larious. Seriously, we laughed and laughed. Andi looked like she was going to go off, and I kept waiting for Josh to storm out from backstage and, literally, rip Nick's head off. (Literally is a hat tip to Josh there.). They're all fine now. This show is fluff. And the real relationships happen when the lead picks the man she is most compatible with to build love after the show.  I think that's what happened here.

I think it's just a little bit funny that a quick look at Nick's Instagram feed makes it pretty obvious to me that he's lobbying to be the next Bachelor. And if he becomes it, I'd be willing to place a substantial bet that we'll be back here in eight months arguing about how Nick could be so callous towards his final two or three.

emusha wrote:

ironcat wrote:Thanks for the clarification.  It's all good.    I guess my attitude is since I don't know these people and don't expect to ever know these people, I don't really care that much.  Besides, I have blood pressure issues, and can't let it affect my health.  

I agree that no doubt the producers were very instrumental in orchestrating Nick's post show pursuit of Andi, from encouraging him to seek her out, to having her turn down meeting with him, to having him write the letter, to having CH egg on the confrontation at ATFR.  They got just what they wanted out of both of them.  And no way were they going to let any of that happen off camera in private.  Too bad Nick didn't just tell them to shove it, but I guess he was too heartbroken, and maybe they did have him by the balls because of the plane video.

i get that as well -- i admit i'm taking it wayy harder than i should    ...   that is the exact attitude i need to adopt to realize that this type of machination and manupilation with zero sensitivity is the best ingredient for this show and that's just the way it its with this show...I think past leads have handled things with much more compassion, empathy, vulnerability including sean, jillian   

I agree that other leads have handled it better.  Andi the Prosecutor really came out last night.  One good thing might be that her attitude hopefully provided a big step in Nick getting over her.  And it sure confirmed for me that despite what it looked like on the edited show, these two actually weren't right for each other in the real world.  Andi really needs someone like Josh who is less complicated, loosens her up and cajoles her out of her intensity, not someone like Nick who is equally intense/analytical and winds her up IMO.

I could be remembering it wrong, but I think Jason had to get permission from the producers to have contact with Molly. They allowed it because they were probably anticipating a bigger bombshell developing as a result of it, and they got it. I highly doubt that they would have allowed this current triangle to get resolved privately when there was so much drama (and resulting PR) to be mined from it.