Re: The Final One (F1) - Bachelorette 9 - Spoilers - Thread #4

by dw_a_mom Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:59 pm

Ariela wrote:
northernviewer wrote:I didn't see it as him blaming her for not telling him that she loved him.... but I guess it all depends if we like him or not how we're going to interpret the words.

You mean to tell me that there TWO dictionaries out there? and you pick your definition?

He said : "Why didn't you tell me sooner". As if it made a difference. it's her fault that he's leaving now....or maybe leaving at all (sarcasm). Which part of that sentence is difficult to understand?
That is the type of statement you make when YOU don't want to take responsibility for your actions.

BTW- it bothers me that a WOMAN like Des puts up with crap from him. I don't care about the f3-1. It's how they treat her. Many girls watching this show may think it's ok for the man to be disrespectful. Weak women blame themselves....and you're right there are some fan-struck posters with bogus interpretations idealizing f1, or who they think is f1.
I'm not so sure the spoilers are correct. I'm guessing she sends them all home. Just a hunch after yesterday.

I don't know if these two can work or not, since I don't know Des or Brooks, only edited/produced versions of them and their interactions, but Brooks seems like the kind of guy women like to "fix," that women believe will be different once they feel secure in love. Which sometimes actually is true. But more often is not.

by dw_a_mom Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:03 pm

beader wrote:All I can say is that if Brooks can have an epiphany and realize he actually loves Des, couldn't Des have an epiphany and realize she loves Chris--or Drew? I don't understand how there is enough time for Brooks to realize who he needs and loves but not enough time for Des to realize what she needs and loves.

If there weren't spoilers, I might be hoping she'd have an epiphany like that.

To me, she was using the "right" words to describe Chris last night, talking about how "easy" he was to be with. But since that was in a VO, it could also have been written for her, or actually spoken about someone else ... and I got mad at the producers for stealing my "tell."

by Guest Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:19 pm

MiaHawk wrote:I think Brooks gave his feelings a lot of thought prior to this week's FDs. He knew he liked Des, enjoyed Des, loved certain qualities of Des, BUT he was not IN love with Des. I give him credit for coming to that realization. It is the same analysis that Des has been going through with each of her rejected men---they are great guys with great qualities on paper and in person, BUT "it" just is not there. She has to essentially break up with guys who are fantastic men, men who have not done anything wrong, who will make incredible husbands and fathers someday, simply because "it" is not there. It is a difficult thing to do, especially when the guy (or in this case, Des) does not see it coming.

I don't fault Brooks for dreading his conversation with Des. I feel he wanted to let her down gently, see her move on to further pursue relationships with Drew and Chris, and get her happy ending because he thinks she is a great person. He wasn't expecting her to be shattered by his confession of not being in love with her. When he said it was the worst day of his life, I believe that was his guilt over making Des cry and breaking her heart. He was the cause of her pain, and that was difficult to process.

When he said he missed her already, didn't want to leave her, and something to the effect that he wanted to say he loved her, I believe this was because he was putting a permanent end to a nice relationship with a great girl, he wanted to help ease her pain, and he wished he didn't have to put her through all of that. It was gut-wrenching for him to have to see her in so much pain. All of his struggles and emotions are understandable up to this point.

If it had ended right here, I would argue with Kasha that Brooks does have a backbone, and I would wager a bag of fig newtons (or the snack of her choice) that an xray would prove that. However, the buzz around this show leads us to believe that Brooks doesn't stand up straight and just walk away. The buzz suggests he returns due to an epiphany. I don't believe an epiphany of this magnitude can occur in a few days.

I believe he is still mired in guilt and shame for hurting a great girl so much, wanting to "make it all better" for her, that he convinces himself that the best thing to do is return, explain his confusion, ask her for more time together, and tell her that he missed her so much in the past few days that he now knows she is "the one". He missed her so much because he just ended a relationship with a girl who is great on paper for him, somebody with whom he has great chemistry, somebody who never hurt or cheated on him, who he hasn't grown bored with yet. He cannot reconcile walking away from this relationship now that he knows he's hurt her so deeply and how much she does love him, BUT those are NOT good reasons to return.

IF he gave the relationship as much thought and analysis as he claims that he did when he came to the conclusion that he wasn't IN love with Des, what he spoke to his family and to CH about, then his returning is a huge mistake. THIS would be the point in time in which his spine went from bone to spaghetti. He fell apart under the pressure and guilt of breaking Des' heart. He waffled after the fact. The fact that Des announced she was in love with him, should have no influence over whether or not he loves her. It just shouldn't. Mature adults fall in love and have unrequited love all of the time. They deal with it and move on. It is sophomoric for a grown man to suddenly feel IN love with a woman simply because SHE professed her love for him. THAT is the sort of thing that middle school romances are made of. It shouldn't have had a lick of influence over Brooks either being in love or not in love with Des. Know thyself. And this stands true even in this stupid, crazy Bach Bubble. Know thyself.
My personal guess is that Des spends the day following Brooks' breakup curled up in the fetal position. Then she walks around for a day or two with zombie eyes (the lights are on but nobody's home), possibly dismissing 1 or both of her men. At this point TPTB instigate or allow Brooks to see her and speak to her, and he waffles and they come to the conclusion to give their relationship another chance. Possibly with an exchange of a $75,000 Neil Lane ring as a symbol of their commitment to give it a whirl in the real world. Relationships and proposals should be built upon rock (bone) and not sand (spaghetti). I know this is a show with a history of faked proposals, but I really don't want to see another one!

In reference to the bolded:

This is what I was trying to say in the Episode 10 thread. You said it better than I could! :yes:

by Cecilia Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:30 pm

I think part of his change of heart may be how she reacted during the entire break-up conversation. Her feelings were real, and everyone watching could see that (look at all the media coverage/twitter discussion of the actual realness of that conversation). So he is worried about the depths of his emotions (and probably hers considering she is DATING OTHER GUYS) and then BAM that entire exchange happens which results in her confession of love, her sadness, her anger and then his surprise at not wanting to actually leave her (what should I do now? I don't want to leave you). Her reminder that she's been on her own for ever. She looks stunning and all of a sudden he's like wait....maybe I was wrong about this.

I think most women have dealt with a guy who has made such a mistake before. And they weren't on a reality dating show days away from an expected proposal!!

I will agree that I think he is a bit damaged from his last relationship. Love shouldn't be painful.

by Guest Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:30 pm

dw_a_mom wrote:
Alanna wrote:

ITA. He should have just left earlier to give her a chance to fall in love with one of the other guys. Des is like Jillian used to be- love hurts, it's not supposed to be easy, blah blah blah. Always with the corollary that the "right" guy will cause chaos and destruction in your world and that's how you KNOW he's the right one for you.

No.

It's the opposite, people! The right one makes everything more right in your world than it ever was before his arrival. She probably thinks the other two aren't her type because her type is full of drama, heartache, tears, and a whole battery of teenage girl approved hysterics in general.

What bothered me was that it sounded like Brooks was saying the same sort of thing, that there is supposed to be a sort of pain with love.

I don't think Brooks knows what love is, either.

I don't know if either of them learned from all this.

I don't think that Brooks was explaining himself very well, to CH. But I think he was just trying to say that when they're not around you miss them; there's a pain and longing, and he wasn't feeling that about Des. He didn't miss her. When they were together they were fine, but then he'd forget how he felt when she left.

by Kashathediva Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:34 pm

MiaHawk wrote:I think Brooks gave his feelings a lot of thought prior to this week's FDs. He knew he liked Des, enjoyed Des, loved certain qualities of Des, BUT he was not IN love with Des. I give him credit for coming to that realization. It is the same analysis that Des has been going through with each of her rejected men---they are great guys with great qualities on paper and in person, BUT "it" just is not there. She has to essentially break up with guys who are fantastic men, men who have not done anything wrong, who will make incredible husbands and fathers someday, simply because "it" is not there. It is a difficult thing to do, especially when the guy (or in this case, Des) does not see it coming.

I don't fault Brooks for dreading his conversation with Des. I feel he wanted to let her down gently, see her move on to further pursue relationships with Drew and Chris, and get her happy ending because he thinks she is a great person. He wasn't expecting her to be shattered by his confession of not being in love with her. When he said it was the worst day of his life, I believe that was his guilt over making Des cry and breaking her heart. He was the cause of her pain, and that was difficult to process.

When he said he missed her already, didn't want to leave her, and something to the effect that he wanted to say he loved her, I believe this was because he was putting a permanent end to a nice relationship with a great girl, he wanted to help ease her pain, and he wished he didn't have to put her through all of that. It was gut-wrenching for him to have to see her in so much pain. All of his struggles and emotions are understandable up to this point.

If it had ended right here, I would argue with Kasha that Brooks does have a backbone, and I would wager a bag of fig newtons (or the snack of her choice) that an xray would prove that. However, the buzz around this show leads us to believe that Brooks doesn't stand up straight and just walk away. The buzz suggests he returns due to an epiphany. I don't believe an epiphany of this magnitude can occur in a few days.

I believe he is still mired in guilt and shame for hurting a great girl so much, wanting to "make it all better" for her, that he convinces himself that the best thing to do is return, explain his confusion, ask her for more time together, and tell her that he missed her so much in the past few days that he now knows she is "the one". He missed her so much because he just ended a relationship with a girl who is great on paper for him, somebody with whom he has great chemistry, somebody who never hurt or cheated on him, who he hasn't grown bored with yet. He cannot reconcile walking away from this relationship now that he knows he's hurt her so deeply and how much she does love him, BUT those are NOT good reasons to return.

IF he gave the relationship as much thought and analysis as he claims that he did when he came to the conclusion that he wasn't IN love with Des, what he spoke to his family and to CH about, then his returning is a huge mistake. THIS would be the point in time in which his spine went from bone to spaghetti. He fell apart under the pressure and guilt of breaking Des' heart. He waffled after the fact. The fact that Des announced she was in love with him, should have no influence over whether or not he loves her. It just shouldn't. Mature adults fall in love and have unrequited love all of the time. They deal with it and move on. It is sophomoric for a grown man to suddenly feel IN love with a woman simply because SHE professed her love for him. THAT is the sort of thing that middle school romances are made of. It shouldn't have had a lick of influence over Brooks either being in love or not in love with Des. Know thyself. And this stands true even in this stupid, crazy Bach Bubble. Know thyself.

My personal guess is that Des spends the day following Brooks' breakup curled up in the fetal position. Then she walks around for a day or two with zombie eyes (the lights are on but nobody's home), possibly dismissing 1 or both of her men. At this point TPTB instigate or allow Brooks to see her and speak to her, and he waffles and they come to the conclusion to give their relationship another chance. Possibly with an exchange of a $75,000 Neil Lane ring as a symbol of their commitment to give it a whirl in the real world. Relationships and proposals should be built upon rock (bone) and not sand (spaghetti). I know this is a show with a history of faked proposals, but I really don't want to see another one!

Nice post!! :yes:

Per the bolded:
You obviously do not suffer from PSS(Pasta spine syndrome). Congratulations! giggling

"Epiphany"--word. The only epiphany that happened was the stroking of Brooks' ego and wow how good that felt!
And the last bolded: No truer words spoken.
Ooops and even more lastly: I love your pasta references as I cook baked stuffed shells and garlic bread!!

by CHO Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:36 pm

:Smiley: Can someone please explain to me why there were no tears, no smeared eye make-up - and not even any kleenex around ? Des' eyes were not red and puffy either - how do they do that ?:Smiley:

by Guest Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:37 pm

Cecilia wrote:I think part of his change of heart may be how she reacted during the entire break-up conversation. Her feelings were real, and everyone watching could see that (look at all the media coverage/twitter discussion of the actual realness of that conversation). So he is worried about the depths of his emotions (and probably hers considering she is DATING OTHER GUYS) and then BAM that entire exchange happens which results in her confession of love, her sadness, her anger and then his surprise at not wanting to actually leave her (what should I do now? I don't want to leave you). Her reminder that she's been on her own for ever. She looks stunning and all of a sudden he's like wait....maybe I was wrong about this.

I think most women have dealt with a guy who has made such a mistake before. And they weren't on a reality dating show days away from an expected proposal!!

I will agree that I think he is a bit damaged from his last relationship. Love shouldn't be painful.

No, it shouldn't, which tells me he was where I was right before I got married. I thought there was pain associated with love, too. That was part of the excitement. Even while I was chasing after a guy I couldn't have, I started dating my husband. With my husband it was easy and painless and the only reason I think I didn't overlook him was because I had a gut feeling that he was right for me. So, I can see how he'd overlook easy and painless Des.

I also think Brooks was afraid to fall in love with her and to let himself go because of the competition there.

by kebarrera Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:39 pm

CHO wrote::Smiley: Can someone please explain to me why there were no tears, no smeared eye make-up - and not even any kleenex around ? Des' eyes were not red and puffy either - how do they do that ?:Smiley:

I think Des has eyelash extensions which do not require mascara.

by Cecilia Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:43 pm

kebarrera wrote:
CHO wrote::Smiley: Can someone please explain to me why there were no tears, no smeared eye make-up - and not even any kleenex around ? Des' eyes were not red and puffy either - how do they do that ?:Smiley:

I think Des has eyelash extensions which do not require mascara.

Her face was blotchy. And she looked prettier than ever.

She scored a lot of points with me after this weeks episode (and not BC of how she looked).

by nd4reality Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:43 pm

kebarrera wrote:
CHO wrote::Smiley: Can someone please explain to me why there were no tears, no smeared eye make-up - and not even any kleenex around ? Des' eyes were not red and puffy either - how do they do that ?:Smiley:

I think Des has eyelash extensions which do not require mascara.

That was Des' pretty cry.

Must look good for the cameras.

by nd4reality Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:44 pm

beader wrote:All I can say is that if Brooks can have an epiphany and realize he actually loves Des, couldn't Des have an epiphany and realize she loves Chris--or Drew? I don't understand how there is enough time for Brooks to realize who he needs and loves but not enough time for Des to realize what she needs and loves.

Again - double standard. Guess we should be used to this type of reasoning by now. giggling

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