Re: The Final One (F1) - Bachelorette 9 - Spoilers - Thread #4

[LLiza]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

well put... family was important to each of the htd bachelors... each made some sort of reference to how and what the family would think of Des, and that would make a difference in how they progressed with their feelings and movement for a relationship.

thanks for the clear head sydney1

Right On Syd!!  

I heard the bolded as well, and that is sweet. But which bachelor or bachelorette has ever had a HTD and said that their family's reaction would mean little/nothing to their decision?? After all, the HTD's purpose on the show is to MEET the family, with the connection being formed (or not) as the pivotal part of the episode. I appreciate that each of the four had close families. Being close to your family is one thing; being dependent (financially or psychologically) on them is another.

Considering that Desiree is only dependent upon herself and herself alone speaks volumes.

[Guest]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

Thank-you!  Thank-you for this unemotional, well-reasoned look At Brooks feelings vs the show story line.  I really wonder how much and what type of producer influence there was in getting him to bow out.

veg, great analysis as always.

i don't even want to know what they did to brooks. with posters saying they tell the F2 they are actually the F1 and even cry to get people to do things i can only imagine what they did this season to everyone.  

[Mustang19]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

well put... family was important to each of the htd bachelors... each made some sort of reference to how and what the family would think of Des, and that would make a difference in how they progressed with their feelings and movement for a relationship.

thanks for the clear head sydney1

Right On Syd!!  

I heard the bolded as well, and that is sweet.  But which bachelor or bachelorette has ever had a HTD and said that their family's reaction would mean little/nothing to their decision??  After all, the HTD's purpose on the show is to MEET the family, with the connection being formed (or not) as the pivotal part of the episode.  I appreciate that each of the four had close families.  Being close to your family is one thing; being dependent (financially or psychologically) on them is another.

Considering that Desiree is only dependent upon herself and herself alone speaks volumes.

Has there ever been a bach or bachette who is financially or psychologically dependent on their family?

[chiliwhili]

Maybe Brooks is the only one who understands the difference between love and infatuation.

[latergator]

Maybe Brooks is the only one who understands the difference between love and infatuation.

I like your thinking chiliwhili... and wecome

[Nativenewyorker]

Finally what I want to say is that maybe we don't need to qualify the way these guys are handling themselves.  I believe that Chris and Drew are completely sincere in their professions of love for Des. The mere fact that they did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to get there does not in and of itself, mean that their feelings are less worthy.

Nativenewyorker...in the same vein... because Drew and Chris did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to profess their undying love does not mean that their feelings are more worthy than Brooks either.

on my soap/box::   

many assumptions are being made on all sides that are based on what we want to believe, how we think it should be, etc. Brooks has been hung out to dry for not committing to his relationship with Des, but as of yet we do not know any of the circumstance of the conflict or if it has anything to do with his relationship.  truthfully we have no idea of who storms out, when they storm out or even if they really do storm out. as a person who has been an avid sleuther in the past, we have been given much false information in the past, and I have no doubt we are getting it now... I have seen sc brought from other seasons and placed into the current one (not saying this is so now, but has happened in the past).  

support your favorites by all means, but not at the expense of the others.  if you can't get your point across without tearing down the other contestant, I doubt your opinion counts much in the big scheme of things.

I don't know if you went on your soapbox to everyone or to my post specifically, but I have something else to say.

First, I didn't start this business about implying that somehow Brooks is superior, more real, has integrity and is being refreshing.  I have read this stuff over and over. The clear message is that he is handling this in the right way as opposed to Chris and Drew who are supposedly being dishonest, lacking in integrity and not being real.  That's why I thought it was time to post something in defense of these two guys. They have put it all on the line. There is something to be said for that. It doesn't make them less than or phony or somehow inferior.  They are speaking their truth as they feel it in that moment.  

I don't need lectures about not attacking other contestants or specifically Brooks. I am entitled to have an opinion about what I see of him this season. That's not the same as trashing or tearing down another contestant. I am not about tearing down anybody.  

I don't think Brooks is being hung out to dry or demonized or anything else. I think that some here have an issue with his doubts and inability to feel as much as Des feels for him. Some of us believe that this may not bode well for their future.

Sometimes when people decide to tell us what we can or cannot say about someone, then it damages the ability to have a lively discussion with different points of view. If some are not enamored or concerned about Brooks and his inability to commit, that does not mean that they are trashing or attacking him.

[latergator]

Finally what I want to say is that maybe we don't need to qualify the way these guys are handling themselves.  I believe that Chris and Drew are completely sincere in their professions of love for Des. The mere fact that they did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to get there does not in and of itself, mean that their feelings are less worthy.

Nativenewyorker...in the same vein... because Drew and Chris did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to profess their undying love does not mean that their feelings are more worthy than Brooks either.

on my soap/box::   

many assumptions are being made on all sides that are based on what we want to believe, how we think it should be, etc. Brooks has been hung out to dry for not committing to his relationship with Des, but as of yet we do not know any of the circumstance of the conflict or if it has anything to do with his relationship.  truthfully we have no idea of who storms out, when they storm out or even if they really do storm out. as a person who has been an avid sleuther in the past, we have been given much false information in the past, and I have no doubt we are getting it now... I have seen sc brought from other seasons and placed into the current one (not saying this is so now, but has happened in the past).  

support your favorites by all means, but not at the expense of the others.  if you can't get your point across without tearing down the other contestant, I doubt your opinion counts much in the big scheme of things.

I don't know if you went on your soapbox to everyone or to my post specifically, but I have something else to say.

First, I didn't start this business about implying that somehow Brooks is superior, more real, has integrity and is being refreshing.  I have read this stuff over and over. The clear message is that he is handling this in the right way as opposed to Chris and Drew who are supposedly being dishonest, lacking in integrity and not being real.  That's why I thought it was time to post something in defense of these two guys. They have put it all on the line. There is something to be said for that. It doesn't make them less than or phony or somehow inferior.  They are speaking their truth as they feel it in that moment.  

I don't need lectures about not attacking other contestants or specifically Brooks. I am entitled to have an opinion about what I see of him this season. That's not the same as trashing or tearing down another contestant. I am not about tearing down anybody.  

I don't think Brooks is being hung out to dry or demonized or anything else. I think that some here have an issue with his doubts and inability to feel as much as Des feels for him. Some of us believe that this may not bode well for their future.

Sometimes when people decide to tell us what we can or cannot say about someone, then it damages the ability to have a lively discussion with different points of view. If some are not enamored or concerned about Brooks and his inability to commit, that does not mean that they are trashing or attacking him.

in no way was my soap box directed at you. there were some things being inferred and said and then quoted as gospel on different threads. it's not just posters attacking Brooks, it's posters attacking Drew and Chris also.  even tho they signed up for this, they are human beings and deserve respect... my soap box was to the group as a whole, and my opinion only. I stand by my statement that if you can't get your point across without tearing down the other contestant, I doubt your opinion counts much in the big scheme of things. at least that opinion does not count for me.

I apologize if you took my post personally, it was not meant that way.  my only post to you was the one directed to you

because Drew and Chris did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to profess their undying love does not mean that their feelings are more worthy than Brooks either.

[Beeleever]

My oh my. Looks like it's time for some :campfire: 

[Nativenewyorker]

latergator,

No problem. I appreciate you clarifying your comment.

For the record, I am in complete agreement that people should try to like their favorite, but not at the expense of the others. I think the F4 are all basically good guys. Des did a good job in getting rid of the ones who were there for the wrong reasons and those for whom she just did not feel it.

So I agree about this -

:campfire: 

[latergator]

latergator,

No problem. I appreciate you clarifying your comment.  

For the record, I am in complete agreement that people should try to like their favorite, but not at the expense of the others.  I think the F4 are all basically good guys. Des did a good job in getting rid of the ones who were there for the wrong reasons and those for whom she just did not feel it.  

So I agree about this -

:campfire: 

me too Nativenewyorker... all is good here

:campfire:

[Piper61]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

  I agree, and so it remains to be seen just exactly what happens that causes all of the tears and turmoil.

[SueSt]

Finally what I want to say is that maybe we don't need to qualify the way these guys are handling themselves.  I believe that Chris and Drew are completely sincere in their professions of love for Des. The mere fact that they did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to get there does not in and of itself, mean that their feelings are less worthy.

Nativenewyorker...in the same vein... because Drew and Chris did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to profess their undying love does not mean that their feelings are more worthy than Brooks either.

on my soap/box::   

many assumptions are being made on all sides that are based on what we want to believe, how we think it should be, etc. Brooks has been hung out to dry for not committing to his relationship with Des, but as of yet we do not know any of the circumstance of the conflict or if it has anything to do with his relationship.  truthfully we have no idea of who storms out, when they storm out or even if they really do storm out. as a person who has been an avid sleuther in the past, we have been given much false information in the past, and I have no doubt we are getting it now... I have seen sc brought from other seasons and placed into the current one (not saying this is so now, but has happened in the past).  

support your favorites by all means, but not at the expense of the others.  if you can't get your point across without tearing down the other contestant, I doubt your opinion counts much in the big scheme of things.

I don't know if you went on your soapbox to everyone or to my post specifically, but I have something else to say.

First, I didn't start this business about implying that somehow Brooks is superior, more real, has integrity and is being refreshing.  I have read this stuff over and over. The clear message is that he is handling this in the right way as opposed to Chris and Drew who are supposedly being dishonest, lacking in integrity and not being real.  That's why I thought it was time to post something in defense of these two guys. They have put it all on the line. There is something to be said for that. It doesn't make them less than or phony or somehow inferior.  They are speaking their truth as they feel it in that moment.  

I don't need lectures about not attacking other contestants or specifically Brooks. I am entitled to have an opinion about what I see of him this season. That's not the same as trashing or tearing down another contestant. I am not about tearing down anybody.  

I don't think Brooks is being hung out to dry or demonized or anything else. I think that some here have an issue with his doubts and inability to feel as much as Des feels for him. Some of us believe that this may not bode well for their future.

Sometimes when people decide to tell us what we can or cannot say about someone, then it damages the ability to have a lively discussion with different points of view. If some are not enamored or concerned about Brooks and his inability to commit, that does not mean that they are trashing or attacking him.

Thank you Native for your great post... We need to respect each others opinions and allow people to have different views without trying to change them!  If you don't agree with someone's opinion, how about just not responding.

I also believe that Brooks' inability to commit (on this show at this time) does not bode well for his future with Des.  In the real world their relationship might develop differently, but if he leaves and in the pressure cooker of the spotlight, it's a rocky way to start a relationship.

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