Re: The Final One (F1) - Bachelorette 9 - Spoilers - Thread #4

[Jeepers]

 

[latergator]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

well put... family was important to each of the htd bachelors... each made some sort of reference to how and what the family would think of Des, and that would make a difference in how they progressed with their feelings and movement for a relationship.

thanks for the clear head sydney1

[Pattycake92]

See, to me, it doesn't matter if he was conflicted during the show as long as he honors the engagement after the show. Some of the most sincere proposals weren't sincere at all because they were not honored or respected in the real world. JMO

  Great point.

   I think he will because he really took this process seriously.  Him backing away proved that until he found out he made a mistake and wants Des in  his life.

I don't think there's any reason to think that either Chris or Drew did not take this process seriously. It's interesting that the one person who is having the most trouble with his feelings, is now described as the one who is taking it all seriously.  I don't think Chris or Drew are faking it or just going through the motions. There's nothing wrong with them because they didn't have to agonize or struggle over their feelings.  They are no less worthy of Des because they didn't go through all this doubt and questioning.

If Chris and Drew did not take this process seriously then neither did Des because she fell early too.

My original post had nothing to do with Chris or Drew because she is not engaged to either of them at the moment. (IMO). If she were, the principal would be the same. I don't give a rat's ass how they acted on the show or how sincere they seemed. It's AFTER the show that matters. You can't tell how sincere they really are because they are highly edited and producers are involved.

[Piper61]

See, to me, it doesn't matter if he was conflicted during the show as long as he honors the engagement after the show. Some of the most sincere proposals weren't sincere at all because they were not honored or respected in the real world. JMO

  Great point.

   I think he will because he really took this process seriously.  Him backing away proved that until he found out he made a mistake and wants Des in  his life.

I don't think there's any reason to think that either Chris or Drew did not take this process seriously. It's interesting that the one person who is having the most trouble with his feelings, is now described as the one who is taking it all seriously.  I don't think Chris or Drew are faking it or just going through the motions. There's nothing wrong with them because they didn't have to agonize or struggle over their feelings.  They are no less worthy of Des because they didn't go through all this doubt and questioning.

If Chris and Drew did not take this process seriously then neither did Des because she fell early too.

My original post had nothing to do with Chris or Drew because she is not engaged to either of them at the moment. (IMO). If she were, the principal would be the same. I don't give a rat's ass how they acted on the show or how sincere they seemed. It's AFTER the show that matters. You can't tell how sincere they really are because they are highly edited and producers are involved.  

I was sincerely saying good point to your post because it was about Brooks being engaged to Des right now. I believe that unless it's proven otherwise at the ATFR.

Only four more days until we see some ore puzzle pieces. Thank goodness! Until then I don't know what goes down, I'm not judging anyone, or misjudging them. I have said before that I liked each of her F4 guys.

[Piper61]

See, to me, it doesn't matter if he was conflicted during the show as long as he honors the engagement after the show. Some of the most sincere proposals weren't sincere at all because they were not honored or respected in the real world. JMO

  Great point.

   I think he will because he really took this process seriously.  Him backing away proved that until he found out he made a mistake and wants Des in  his life.

I don't think there's any reason to think that either Chris or Drew did not take this process seriously. It's interesting that the one person who is having the most trouble with his feelings, is now described as the one who is taking it all seriously.  I don't think Chris or Drew are faking it or just going through the motions. There's nothing wrong with them because they didn't have to agonize or struggle over their feelings.  They are no less worthy of Des because they didn't go through all this doubt and questioning.

I agree, I don't think they are taking it any less seriously, nor that they're not worthy of Des. Each person is entitled to handle themselves in the manner they choose. There's really nothing wrong with either way.  Personally, I do find how Brooks is handling it for himself refreshing as far as his thought process goes.  Has he overanalzed as Des has said he seems to do? Certainly could have.  But, at this time, I have no earthly idea what goes down in the upcoming 2-part finale, and because of that, don't feel I should think the worst of each bachelor themselves, but certainly can believe there could be manipulations of all parties by TPTB.  Feed the drama, feed the suspense, etc.

I appreciate your response. I guess what I am trying to say is that each of these guys has to go through this process in their own way. It's not as though one way is better than another. But I have been reading many comments to the effect that Brooks is being real, has integrity, refreshing as you said, honest, whatever.  So my question is does that mean that Chris or Drew are in any way not being real, lacking integrity or not refreshing? Why can't their reactions and feelings be just as real?

Some of us feel that Brooks holding back and having so many doubts does not portend well for a possible long term relationship with Des.  If it's this complicated and difficult in the beginning, then how will they survive the transition to real life? That transition has derailed most of these relationships in the past.  Some here believe that this is a pattern with Des that is now repeating itself yet again. She falls for the wrong guys, always does the chasing, etc.  

Finally what I want to say is that maybe we don't need to qualify the way these guys are handling themselves.  I believe that Chris and Drew are completely sincere in their professions of love for Des. The mere fact that they did not have to agonize, doubt and struggle to get there does not in and of itself, mean that their feelings are less worthy.

Thank you for your response. I understand where you are coming from in saying maybe we don't need to qualify the way these guys are handling things. Most of the time we don't see someone handle it quite the way Brooks is/has. Depending on the outcome and the longevity of their relationship outside of the show, we'll see if it was worth whatever angst, ups and downs they went through if they remain together, marry and go on to build a life like a few of the other couples have. I don't think Brooks is non-committal and possibly he is far from the types Des has chased or dated in the past.  I don't feel like any of the guys are the wrong guys, but possibly the one she chooses really is the best for her. In contrast, I think if she was seriously interested in James early on and after their one on one, he seemed like the wrong guy....the jock type guy she may have dated in the past if it's true she went for the football linebacker types. He even knew that if she was that into Brooks, then she wasn't the right girl for him.  All of her F4 guys possess the same great qualities such as caring, charming, witty, adventurous, family oriented, fun to name several. The only difference would be the pull on her heart that was stronger for one over the others.  I personally don't kick anyone to the curb for making mistakes, and Brooks seems to realize he made a mistake and the rest is still to watch unfold.

[nutty1]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

Very good thought provoking question and one many have posed themselves after seeing some of Brooks' own personal history(not that there is anything wrong with it). He tends to take things at a much slower pace--he finally finished college a year ago with a general degree, but he did graduate. Good for him! He has had many different jobs with inability to establish a longstanding successful history. (again nothing wrong with this, he is finding himself) It is questionable whether or not he has actually lived independently on his own. So you do have to wonder whether he is at the same maturation as someone who has been on their own since 18. I even wonder if Des is aware of any of this.
:hidingchair 

Could this be a part of what Chris Harrison and crew know?  That Brooks isn't there with the maturation in life or with Des, especially considering she's been on her own since 18.  Maybe she needs in someone what she has in that department so that they can grow together from now on versus someone that hasn't even reached her plateau in their own life before they can share it with someone else.  IMO, both Chris and Drew have shown that they have done a lot in life, are established and MAYBE, she realizes that what she wants is Brooks, but what she needs is either Drew or Chris.  This would go back to the line that she said in the beginning of the show that what she wants isn't necessarily what she needs and this is the time that she's maybe figuring that out.  Just some more food for thought..

I highly doubt CH would care if Brooks had tantrums like a 2 year old!! I honestly believe their #1 concerns are not (sadly as it is) for the lead or the contestants.

[BarbB222]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

well put... family was important to each of the htd bachelors... each made some sort of reference to how and what the family would think of Des, and that would make a difference in how they progressed with their feelings and movement for a relationship.

thanks for the clear head sydney1

Right On Syd!!  

[LoveDovez]

We can go back and forth on who we think is better for Des.  Just because we talk in favor of our favorite one does not mean that we are putting the other 2 down.  She has 3 great guys to choose from and are there for the right reasons.  But in the end Des will follow her heart which is what any of us would do.

I personally like her and Brooks together but if she chooses Drew or Chris I am still good with that even though they were not my favorite.  As long as she is happy and they have a chance of making it in the outside world all is good.

A GREAT post, NannyMargie. : ) I esp liked the bolded.

[veg_out]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

[Guest]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

Thank-you! Thank-you for this unemotional, well-reasoned look At Brooks feelings vs the show story line. I really wonder how much and what type of producer influence there was in getting him to bow out.

[nutty1]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

Very good and well thought out post.

[BarbB222]

My concern is that Des has apparently been thinking fairly independently for some years - and Brooks is still seemingly very dependent on his family's thoughts on "what is being in love like" and "how do I know?"  I can see that as differences that might cause problems later on - how much is the family involved ?

From what was shown on the HTDs all four families are very involved in their sons lives. Because of Des indpendence, it is going to be different no matter who she choose.  I don't think she would have a problem with any of the families being supportive and encouraging.  We really don't know what the conversation between Brooks' Mom and sister entailed. And what's wrong with talking to your mom and sister about your feelings, that's what family is for.  Why do all the guys want their mothers' blessing if it is not important to them.  Just because Brooks is unsure of the depth of his feelings does not mean he is not sincere in them.  And just maybe Moms wisdom and sister 's experience can open a door or shed a light that will help him make the right decision not just for him, but, for Des also. JMO

I think that Brooks' uncertainty is 80% crafted by the show and 20% self-inflicted. On their first date, Brooks says at the end, "I'm stoked" about the future. By Munich, he's telling her that he appreciates any time that he has with her. In Spain, he says that he's so happy with the way things are going. On their date in Portugal, he affirms her that "it is working" when she questions if they would work in the real world. When they're leaving the park on his HTD, he says that he and Des are on the same page. He talks to her and to his family about "their relationship." The only thing that I've heard Brooks say to Des about any hesitancy where the words actually came out of his mouth were that he wished he had the time to explore his feelings. By the end of their date, he's telling us that he doesn't want her to go, that he wants her to stay, and he talks about their future again.

I write all of that not to say that Brooks is definitely the F1 by edit; rather, TPTB have crafted the storyline of him being super behind on his feelings and that contradicts the things he's said where you actually see his mouth uttering the words, not VOs, not PIs. When Brooks leaves, I imagine it's that he just isn't ready to propose to her without more time. Brooks, it appears, is moving at real-life not Bubble speed whereas Drew and Chris have been persuaded to profess love as a stark contrast to Brooks' pace. CH keeps holding that juxtaposition in front of Des' face. That's producer-driven for sure. "Look at these guys who are in love with you."

I still think that there's room for either Chris or Drew to take this thing if the "shocking news" isn't that he's not ready to propose and more along the lines of that she isn't what he wants. I don't think it's the latter since he's said so much to date about the things he loves about her.

So, yes, I'm still very much thinking it's anyone's game depending on the way that Des deals with losing Brooks...

Very good and well thought out post.

 

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