Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Mar 5th FRC ATFR - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

northernviewer wrote: ------Snipped. Having to reassure her while filming the Bach ... When he’s dating other women ..... is not unreasonable, in real life it would be a sign of insecurity ... on the Bach it’s a necessity.  

Well, let me start by saying I agree with you.
But, only up to a point. Yes, he needs to reassure her while concurrently dating other women, but not constantly. That is what he told his siblings, I did not say it, .....he has to "constantly reassure her." IMO, this Bach/Ette bubble does not make a new and improved person, it just heightens all the strengths and weaknesses that the person possessed prior to entering the bubble.
I hope that she doesn't need constant reassurance in real life because that would kill any relationship. But, I have to say I am not hopeful cos this whole switch situation is the stuff that kills relationships......hope I am wrong. AMO

Some footage of the LCDs and also a part of the proposal to Becca. Oops.

https://www.hulu.com/watch/1230923

For those who don’t get the video directly from the link, it’s title the Bachelor 2018 travel guide: Peru.

Kolormiblnd wrote:ITA with your first point, I also agree with your second but I have another aspect. I have additionally wondered if the "not treating her well" also has to do with the constant reassurance she seems to need. I take from @Aria's prior post, In a sneak peek, you see Arie's sister remind him that he would complain that Sydney and he couldn't have conversations and she asks if it's a similar issue with Lauren. And he basically says "I spend so much time reassuring her, we haven't gotten to have those great conversation" This has to get exhausting after a while. Lauren said that her parent's marriage was not the greatest and most times she was in the middle. That has to have warped her view of marriage. Anyway, the great conversations need to happen and I hope they are happening now otherwise, this relationship will not last. AMO

There's two things about their conversations (at least what they have chosen to show us) between Lauren and Becca:

Becca
IIRC on the daytime portion of the FD with Becca, Arie asks her how she is with long distance. Becca points out that the last 3 years of her relationship with her ex were long distance (given how that long distance relationship ended up, it's not a stellar endorsement of long distance relationships, IMO). Arie says that he would like her to move to be with him but would not push her beyond her comfort zone. But IMO the conversation ended without Becca ever saying that she'd move or when she'd consider moving, and Arie did not clearly articulate his likely real expectations. That's not really a good conversation IMO because it never gets to the real crux of the question with a definite answer. IMO Arie does not want a long distance relationship - he wants someone who is willing to pack up and move to Scottsdale and be with him but that never really gets well communicated. So they talk - but neither really communicates their true feelings and as a result nothing really gets resolved by the conversation.

Lauren
On their 1-1 date when Lauren confesses that she is falling in love with Arie and he gets up and walks away, the first thing that Lauren says when he comes back is "You seem to have something to say about that". Arie's reply is well known so I won't try to paraphrase it, but IMO Lauren waded into an unknown that could have been disastrous for her - but she waded in none the less. That took courage, IMO. I don't think there's anything more difficult to talk about between two people who are starting to care for each other than to be open about how each feels about the other and in spite of her fears, it's Lauren who faces these questions directly even though the answers might have gone very badly for her.

Based on what's been shown, IMO Arie and Lauren stand a better chance IRL of talking through the "tough stuff" than do Arie and Becca.

Kolormiblnd wrote:Well, let me start by saying I agree with you.
But, only up to a point. Yes, he needs to reassure her while concurrently dating other women, but not constantly. That is what he told his siblings, I did not say it, .....he has to "constantly reassure her." IMO, this Bach/Ette bubble does not make a new and improved person, it just heightens all the strengths and weaknesses that the person possessed prior to entering the bubble.
I hope that she doesn't need constant reassurance in real life because that would kill any relationship. But, I have to say I am not hopeful cos this whole switch situation is the stuff that kills relationships......hope I am wrong. AMO

Re the first bold - IMO it's mostly the weaknesses that get highlighted because that makes for "better TV" but yes - the bubble is not the real world.

Re the second bold - IMO it certainly could be a relationship killer, but it could also create a "joining of forces" that strengthens a relationship. IMO in the case of Jason and Molly it was their faith in what they had, trust in each other and their focus on family and friends in the midst of huge negativity from much of the outside world, that drew them together.

Lucas15 wrote:

Kolormiblnd wrote:Well, let me start by saying I agree with you.
But, only up to a point. Yes, he needs to reassure her while concurrently dating other women, but not constantly. That is what he told his siblings, I did not say it, .....he has to "constantly reassure her." IMO, this Bach/Ette bubble does not make a new and improved person, it just heightens all the strengths and weaknesses that the person possessed prior to entering the bubble.
I hope that she doesn't need constant reassurance in real life because that would kill any relationship. But, I have to say I am not hopeful cos this whole switch situation is the stuff that kills relationships......hope I am wrong. AMO

Re the first bold - IMO it's mostly the weaknesses that get highlighted because that makes for "better TV" but yes - the bubble is not the real world.

Re the second bold - IMO it certainly could be a relationship killer, but it could also create a "joining of forces" that strengthens a relationship. IMO in the case of Jason and Molly it was their faith in what they had, trust in each other and their focus on family and friends in the midst of huge negativity from much of the outside world, that drew them together.

Yep, a joining of forces can happen. But I do not believe that Arie/Lauren are Jason/Molly.

I can’t totally write off Arie/Lauren just yet... only because history shows us with this show the couples who face the most adversity and critism, are many times the couples that withstand the test of time.

Ten years ago I would have laughed in your face along with most of you if you had told me 24 year old monotonous Molly would make it would with the 32 year old single dad after that sh*t storm. I never thought Chris and Des would make it. JoJo and Jordan have surprised the poop out of me. Sometimes the scandal and drama can bring these couples together in an “us against them” kind of way.

All this being said, I give Lauren and Arie a solid 9 months.

sosleepy wrote:I can’t totally write off Arie/Lauren just yet... only because history shows us with this show the couples who face the most adversity and critism, are many times the couples that withstand the test of time.

Ten years ago I would have laughed in your face along with most of you if you had told me 24 year old monotonous Molly would make it would with the 32 year old single dad after that sh*t storm. I never thought Chris and Des would make it. JoJo and Jordan have surprised the poop out of me. Sometimes the scandal and drama can bring these couples together in an “us against them” kind of way.

All this being said, I give Lauren and Arie a solid 9 months.

I do think there is something about the "us against the world" mentality that brings couples together.

Honestly, I do think that Lauren/Arie could potentially stay together for a long time and even get married. He was with Sydney for a year, despite never saying ILY and, as we heard his sister say, the fact that they couldn't even have conversations. He was with Cassie for a couple of years, until she dumped him for not being there for her during the pregnancy. I don't think he really dumps women, unless they start nagging him about his lies or cheating or immaturity. So, I think the only way they don't last is if Lauren decides she doesn't want to put up with Arie's cheating and lies. If she decides to be cool with it, I can see them making it as I actually do think Arie wants to get married and have babies. It would be hilarious if two of the Bachelors to get married will be ones that picked their F2. IMO.

Aria wrote:

sosleepy wrote:I can’t totally write off Arie/Lauren just yet... only because history shows us with this show the couples who face the most adversity and critism, are many times the couples that withstand the test of time.

Ten years ago I would have laughed in your face along with most of you if you had told me 24 year old monotonous Molly would make it would with the 32 year old single dad after that sh*t storm. I never thought Chris and Des would make it. JoJo and Jordan have surprised the poop out of me. Sometimes the scandal and drama can bring these couples together in an “us against them” kind of way.

All this being said, I give Lauren and Arie a solid 9 months.

I do think there is something about the "us against the world" mentality that brings couples together.

Honestly, I do think that Lauren/Arie could potentially stay together for a long time and even get married. He was with Sydney for a year, despite never saying ILY and, as we heard his sister say, the fact that they couldn't even have conversations. He was with Cassie for a couple of years, until she dumped him for not being there for her during the pregnancy. I don't think he really dumps women, unless they start nagging him about his lies or cheating or immaturity. So, I think the only way they don't last is if Lauren decides she doesn't want to put up with Arie's cheating and lies. If she decides to be cool with it, I can see them making it as I actually do think Arie wants to get married and have babies. It would be hilarious if two of the Bachelors to get married will be ones that picked their F2. IMO.

Who knows what will happen with a Arie and Lauren but I’m gonna at least wait until they make it thru the “honeymoon period”. They have been together (kind of) a whopping 7 weeks so far so I’ll wait a bit before giving them any kind of longevity award.

Lucas15 wrote:

Kolormiblnd wrote:ITA with your first point, I also agree with your second but I have another aspect. I have additionally wondered if the "not treating her well" also has to do with the constant reassurance she seems to need. I take from @Aria's prior post, In a sneak peek, you see Arie's sister remind him that he would complain that Sydney and he couldn't have conversations and she asks if it's a similar issue with Lauren. And he basically says "I spend so much time reassuring her, we haven't gotten to have those great conversation" This has to get exhausting after a while. Lauren said that her parent's marriage was not the greatest and most times she was in the middle. That has to have warped her view of marriage. Anyway, the great conversations need to happen and I hope they are happening now otherwise, this relationship will not last. AMO

There's two things about their conversations (at least what they have chosen to show us) between Lauren and Becca:

Becca
IIRC on the daytime portion of the FD with Becca, Arie asks her how she is with long distance. Becca points out that the last 3 years of her relationship with her ex were long distance (given how that long distance relationship ended up, it's not a stellar endorsement of long distance relationships, IMO). Arie says that he would like her to move to be with him but would not push her beyond her comfort zone. But IMO the conversation ended without Becca ever saying that she'd move or when she'd consider moving, and Arie did not clearly articulate his likely real expectations. That's not really a good conversation IMO because it never gets to the real crux of the question with a definite answer. IMO Arie does not want a long distance relationship - he wants someone who is willing to pack up and move to Scottsdale and be with him but that never really gets well communicated. So they talk - but neither really communicates their true feelings and as a result nothing really gets resolved by the conversation.

Lauren
On their 1-1 date when Lauren confesses that she is falling in love with Arie and he gets up and walks away, the first thing that Lauren says when he comes back is "You seem to have something to say about that". Arie's reply is well known so I won't try to paraphrase it, but IMO Lauren waded into an unknown that could have been disastrous for her - but she waded in none the less. That took courage, IMO. I don't think there's anything more difficult to talk about between two people who are starting to care for each other than to be open about how each feels about the other and in spite of her fears, it's Lauren who faces these questions directly even though the answers might have gone very badly for her.

Based on what's been shown, IMO Arie and Lauren stand a better chance IRL of talking through the "tough stuff" than do Arie and Becca.

You make a good point about Lauren and her courage wading into that particular difficult conversation. I doubt that Becca and Arie did not have a similar conversation. But, based on what has been shown, they did not. What they did show though, was Becca's conversation with her mother during the HTD where she talked about moving to Scottsdale. I do agree with your last sentence though, because of what I have seen of their personalities and possible expectations.

sosleepy wrote:I can’t totally write off Arie/Lauren just yet... only because history shows us with this show the couples who face the most adversity and critism, are many times the couples that withstand the test of time.

Ten years ago I would have laughed in your face along with most of you if you had told me 24 year old monotonous Molly would make it would with the 32 year old single dad after that sh*t storm. I never thought Chris and Des would make it. JoJo and Jordan have surprised the poop out of me. Sometimes the scandal and drama can bring these couples together in an “us against them” kind of way.

All this being said, I give Lauren and Arie a solid 9 months.

Well I was pretty sure that both Des/Chris and JoJo/Jordan would make it, and I think the common factors were that they moved away from the spotlight and that both men were so  unflappable in the media storm.
I don’t see those qualities in Arie (or in Lauren), and he will be racing, so…

9 month is optimistic IMO.

Lucas15 wrote:

There's two things about their conversations (at least what they have chosen to show us) between Lauren and Becca:

Becca
IIRC on the daytime portion of the FD with Becca, Arie asks her how she is with long distance. Becca points out that the last 3 years of her relationship with her ex were long distance (given how that long distance relationship ended up, it's not a stellar endorsement of long distance relationships, IMO). Arie says that he would like her to move to be with him but would not push her beyond her comfort zone. But IMO the conversation ended without Becca ever saying that she'd move or when she'd consider moving, and Arie did not clearly articulate his likely real expectations. That's not really a good conversation IMO because it never gets to the real crux of the question with a definite answer. IMO Arie does not want a long distance relationship - he wants someone who is willing to pack up and move to Scottsdale and be with him but that never really gets well communicated. So they talk - but neither really communicates their true feelings and as a result nothing really gets resolved by the conversation.

Lauren
On their 1-1 date when Lauren confesses that she is falling in love with Arie and he gets up and walks away, the first thing that Lauren says when he comes back is "You seem to have something to say about that". Arie's reply is well known so I won't try to paraphrase it, but IMO Lauren waded into an unknown that could have been disastrous for her - but she waded in none the less. That took courage, IMO. I don't think there's anything more difficult to talk about between two people who are starting to care for each other than to be open about how each feels about the other and in spite of her fears, it's Lauren who faces these questions directly even though the answers might have gone very badly for her.

Based on what's been shown, IMO Arie and Lauren stand a better chance IRL of talking through the "tough stuff" than do Arie and Becca.

I don’t think you can ever draw any conclusions from what is NOT shown. We have been told many times that religion, political beliefs, where to live, how many children and so on is discussed with all F4, but we see very little of it, because it is considered either boring or controversial.
JMO

I think that’s a beautiful ring.  Do we know if Neil Lane made the trip to Peru?  I can’t imagine he’d miss the opportunity, but I wonder what they will show.  Probably the same old stuff.

Just trying to picture his possible meeting/s with Arie and timing.  Did Arie pick two rings in Peru, one for Becca now and one for Lauren down the road?  Are both simply TB’s “in reserve” rings?  Did he meet with Neil again stateside to pick another for Lauren?  

I know!  That’s a lot of questions.  

The Bachelorettes often come into the show thinking they may find their special guy and don't seem as inclined to let the attention go to their heads, unlike the Bachelors in many cases. You can see some of them thinking that they're the next best thing and they seem to forget that these women are all in the Bachelor Bubble and they're the only guy they see. I also think the women are more ready for a long-term relationship and I'm not sure that the guys are, no matter what they say. I don't really buy that the women are more competitive and/or more likely not to be their real selves than the guys. That's more of an individual thing and not gender-based, imo.

I watched the preview with Becca and Arie. I don't know that I'd say that they're more friend-like. I don't know about you but my male friends don't kiss my hand like that.  It's also a serious conversation that doesn't call for romance. There are other things to look at but this isn't one of them, imo. I'm not saying that Arie didn't make a mistake picking Becca. I think he should have picked Lauren if that's who he truly wanted. I just think he should have done it at the FRC.