Bachelor 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Episodes - Mar 5th FRC ATFR - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Stone_Hedge wrote:@umngirl Thank you for this. Becca and Arie’s relationship seem so real . He mentioned how she’s the type that can be patient with him regarding all the little fangirls that might want to hang around Arie per his mom. This makes me think even more that that’s Arie’s type and calling card. Not just being a racer, but also a racer who was on TBette and now TBach. Just happy it won’t be Becca’s fate regarding this.
Jmo

I think Arie's Mom is well aware of the race track groupie because she had to deal with that all the years that Arie Sr. drove - but they somehow weathered that storm and had a successful marriage in spite of it.

I used to work with a guy - we'll call him Bill - who used to pitch for the farm team of the Milwaukee Brewers but eventually had two successful seasons pitching for the major league Brewers; during our business travels we'd talk about what life was like. Bill was about Arie's age at the time - and single - and I asked him why. His answer was that they traveled a lot from game to game and that most of the team had a girlfriend in every city - and not just the single guys - the married guys did it too. The team was always followed by "groupies" / "Jersey chasers" so there was no shortage of pretty women making themselves obviously available to the players. Bill felt - as he told me many others did - reluctant to commit to any one girl because he always wondered if there would be someone "better" in the next city. His career ended with an injury to his pitching arm and he never did find that "better option". Bill regretted not finding that "one" that he could settle down with and expressed to me that if he had a chance to do it all over again he would do it differently. One might say that a leopard doesn't change its spots but IMO at some point they may wish that they had before it gets to be too late.

northernviewer wrote:

Aria wrote:Honestly, I think if more Bachelors started picking the friend over the lover, we'd probably have a much higher success rate. Sean's always said that he picked his best friend and friendship is exactly what I see missing in so many Bachelor relationships. The lead gets so caught up in love that he forgets to figure out if he actually *likes* her! It's like Sharleen pointed out with Lauren/Ben, that you never see them just have fun or banter or be light-hearted with one another. It's always so serious. Such a 180 from most of our Bachelorette relationships and Sean/Cat. IMO.

I posted my theory in the discussion thread the other day as to why I think there isn’t a high success rate with the Bach as it is with the ‘ette My opinion is that girls are more competitive with each other and want to “win” and will say and do what it takes.  When the shows over.... the  Bach is pretty much left scratching his head, as she’s really not the girl he thought she was.   I’m not saying this is what happened this year, I’m saying in general, competitive, chameleon girls are the issue.  Guys are more what you see is what you get.

I would buy that theory if most of our Bachelors *still* weren't single. In the last decade, Juan Pablo is the only Bachelor besides Sean and Jason to get married. Jake, Brad, Ben F, Ben H, Chris Soules, and Nick are still single. Forget married, none are even in committed relationships. And most of the ones that did get married ended up getting divorced. This is a huge contrast to the Bachelorette, as every single one of our Bachelorettes is married or engaged, except Andi.

Choosing the friend over the lover is just one part of it, but I think it's a huge part. In a sneak peek, you see Arie's sister remind him that he would complain that Sydney and he couldn't have conversations and she asks if it's a similar issue with Lauren. And he basically says "I spend so much time reassuring her, we haven't gotten to have those great conversation". How can you be in love with someone you can't talk to? You can't, which is why it's lust and it's what I think men prioritize.

This would be my order of reasons why the Bachelor is a 21 season trainwreck.

1) The show usually chooses Bachelors that are not ready to get married.

2) Like Sean said, the Bachelors often just choose the girl they're most physically attracted to on night one and don't take enough time to figure out if there is something beyond physical there and don't give other women a fair chance.

3) Like Lorenzo said, the Bachelor gets tempted post-show by the all the women who are out of his league that are now throwing themselves on to him. The Bachelor would much prefer to live the lifestyle of a rockstar and bang super hot girls without any commitment versus putting in the hard work to make a relationship work with someone they barely know.

4) The Bachelor almost always gets offered DWTS or a reality TV show after the show, whereas Fleiss prevents the Bachelorettes from doing it. Like Sean said, DWTS is a relationship killer. The Bachelorettes are forced to go life a relatively spotlight free life after the show, which like Jason said, is the number one reason for his and Molly's success.

5) The Bachelor F1s are usually more jealous than the Bachelorette F1s. I don't think most women could have gotten over their finances' actions, the way that Shawn, Chris S, and Bryan did.

IMO.

^ Funny how Jason was probed to pick lust over best friend and then changed his mind, while Arie is going the opposite way.
I don’t think he will get what Jason has. JMO

Lucas15 wrote:

Stone_Hedge wrote:@umngirl Thank you for this. Becca and Arie’s relationship seem so real . He mentioned how she’s the type that can be patient with him regarding all the little fangirls that might want to hang around Arie per his mom. This makes me think even more that that’s Arie’s type and calling card. Not just being a racer, but also a racer who was on TBette and now TBach. Just happy it won’t be Becca’s fate regarding this.
Jmo

I think Arie's Mom is well aware of the race track groupie because she had to deal with that all the years that Arie Sr. drove - but they somehow weathered that storm and had a successful marriage in spite of it.

I used to work with a guy - we'll call him Bill - who used to pitch for the farm team of the Milwaukee Brewers but eventually had two successful seasons pitching for the major league Brewers; during our business travels we'd talk about what life was like. Bill was about Arie's age at the time - and single - and I asked him why. His answer was that they traveled a lot from game to game and that most of the team had a girlfriend in every city - and not just the single guys - the married guys did it too. The team was always followed by "groupies" / "Jersey chasers" so there was no shortage of pretty women making themselves obviously available to the players. Bill felt - as he told me many others did - reluctant to commit to any one girl because he always wondered if there would be someone "better" in the next city. His career ended with an injury to his pitching arm and he never did find that "better option". Bill regretted not finding that "one" that he could settle down with and expressed to me that if he had a chance to do it all over again he would do it differently. One might say that a leopard doesn't change its spots but IMO at some point they may wish that they had before it gets to be too late.

Very interesting post. And Bill sounds similar to what we have read of past Arie. JMO, Bill learned he should have settled once the options were gone. Arie still has options, so will he learn and commit fully to Lauren or will he go back to his pattern. Lauren has already shown she will quit a relationship if the athlete fiancé is not treating her well. All JMO.

stuckinsc wrote:Very interesting post. And Bill sounds similar to what we have read of past Arie. JMO, Bill learned he should have settled once the options were gone. Arie still has options, so will he learn and commit fully to Lauren or will he go back to his pattern.

That was really the point of that post; to understand the mentality of athletes who are followed by groupies. Bill shouldn't have waited until the options were gone - he should have done something while he still had options. By the time he came to realize that, he had no options left. He's now in his 60s and AFAIK never been married but when I knew him he was much younger and regretted it even then.

Lauren has already shown she will quit a relationship if the athlete fiancé is not treating her well. All JMO.

We have little detail about what "not treating her well" means - but I sometimes wonder if that relationship may have been in some aspects abusive; not necessarily physically, but a relationship can be emotionally abusive as well. That might help explain why she is so fearful of letting her emotions get the better of her. I also wonder about Lauren's father's statement about Arie (If I'm wrong I'll effing kill him) - what might he have known that would make him so protective of Lauren?

Mommyof2 wrote:

umngirl wrote:New sneak peek with Becca and Arie from their LCD.

http://m.eonline.com/news/917695/the-bachelor-finale-sneak-peek-becca-kufrin-calls-lauren-burnham-a-huge-threat

I see good friends in that clip.  In fact, that is what I have seen the entire show.  Maybe a lot was left on the editing room floor after the switcheroo, because I just can't see "it" with these two.  Jmo.

Some of the most solid lasting relationships I know the couple started out being good friends and then developed very loving relationships. Arie and Becca’s relationship seeems more real to me compared to Arie and Lauren. His switcheroo shows his indecisiveness and I just don’t see a guy that’s ready for commitment. JMO.

docnash14 wrote:I could go along with you that during the season Lauren's resting face was more serious.  Based, however, on comments made on her social media by people who know her, that doesn't seem to be the case with her real world countenance.  Further, I just read somewhere that Sienna said that up until Lauren's first one-on-one she was much more outgoing and light-hearted; after that, she seemed to withdraw and become much quiet which Sienna attributed to Lauren's growing feelings for Arie.  If that is the case, her serious countenance was congruent and emblematic with the seriousness in which she was approaching her relationship with Arie.  Given that, not too surprising that she would want to "fight" for it when she was given the opportunity post-season.

Docnash I think the post you read may have been referring to this interview with Seinne where at about 1:55 in she talks about Lauren. Seinne says that while Lauren may not have been as outgoing and outspoken as some of the other girls, she was very sweet and funnier than what we see in the show. But what Seinne thinks happened was that after Lauren got her 1-1 time with Arie and got the GD rose in Fort Lauderdale she got very serious about Arie. Before that 1-1 time and GD rose IMO we basically saw almost nothing of Lauren and we only got to see her after she had gotten very serious.

Lucas15 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Very interesting post. And Bill sounds similar to what we have read of past Arie. JMO, Bill learned he should have settled once the options were gone. Arie still has options, so will he learn and commit fully to Lauren or will he go back to his pattern.

That was really the point of that post; to understand the mentality of athletes who are followed by groupies. Bill shouldn't have waited until the options were gone - he should have done something while he still had options. By the time he came to realize that, he had no options left. He's now in his 60s and AFAIK never been married but when I knew him he was much younger and regretted it even then.

Lauren has already shown she will quit a relationship if the athlete fiancé is not treating her well. All JMO.

We have little detail about what "not treating her well" means - but I sometimes wonder if that relationship may have been in some aspects abusive; not necessarily physically, but a relationship can be emotionally abusive as well. That might help explain why she is so fearful of letting her emotions get the better of her. I also wonder about Lauren's father's statement about Arie (If I'm wrong I'll effing kill him) - what might he have known that would make him so protective of Lauren?

ITA with your first point, I also agree with your second but I have another aspect. I have additionally wondered if the "not treating her well" also has to do with the constant reassurance she seems to need. I take from @Aria's prior post, In a sneak peek, you see Arie's sister remind him that he would complain that Sydney and he couldn't have conversations and she asks if it's a similar issue with Lauren. And he basically says "I spen d so much time reassuring her, we haven't gotten to have those great conversation" This has to get exhausting after a while. Lauren said that her parent's marriage was not the greatest and most times she was in the middle. That has to have warped her view of marriage. Anyway, the great conversations need to happen and I hope they are happening now otherwise, this relationship will not last. AMO

Lucas15 wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I posted my theory in the discussion thread the other day as to why I think there isn’t a high success rate with the Bach as it is with the ‘ette My opinion is that girls are more competitive with each other and want to “win” and will say and do what it takes.  When the shows over.... the  Bach is pretty much left scratching his head, as she’s really not the girl he thought she was.   I’m not saying this is what happened this year, I’m saying in general, competitive, chameleon girls are the issue.  Guys are more what you see is what you get.

I think my wife would share that opinion and each time she states this I sort of feel surprised. Maybe it's a Mars / Venus bias that surprises me but she knows the Venus side much better than I do (although she is not one of "those women"). There's a sort of an "unspoken code of conduct" between many men that you stand down and let another man court a woman he's attracted to even if you're attracted to that woman. My wife always points out that some women will go after a man just to win even if he's not a prize they really want. I'm trying here not to paint all with a wide brush because not all men follow this code nor do all women compete to win but I do think there's some genetic code that we all share to some extent that is behind these behaviors.

I’m a woman and agree with you 100%. Of course there’s always the exception but I think on a show like this ... it attracts competitive women in general, so the theory is extra valid for n the Bach.

Hamburger theory.

Kolormiblnd wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:Very interesting post. And Bill sounds similar to what we have read of past Arie. JMO, Bill learned he should have settled once the options were gone. Arie still has options, so will he learn and commit fully to Lauren or will he go back to his pattern.

That was really the point of that post; to understand the mentality of athletes who are followed by groupies. Bill shouldn't have waited until the options were gone - he should have done something while he still had options. By the time he came to realize that, he had no options left. He's now in his 60s and AFAIK never been married but when I knew him he was much younger and regretted it even then.

Lauren has already shown she will quit a relationship if the athlete fiancé is not treating her well. All JMO.

We have little detail about what "not treating her well" means - but I sometimes wonder if that relationship may have been in some aspects abusive; not necessarily physically, but a relationship can be emotionally abusive as well. That might help explain why she is so fearful of letting her emotions get the better of her. I also wonder about Lauren's father's statement about Arie (If I'm wrong I'll effing kill him) - what might he have known that would make him so protective of Lauren?

ITA with your first point, I also agree with your second but I have another aspect. I have additionally wondered if the "not treating her well" also has to do with the constant reassurance she seems to need. I take from @Aria's prior post, In a sneak peek, you see Arie's sister remind him that he would complain that Sydney and he couldn't have conversations and she asks if it's a similar issue with Lauren. And he basically says "I spen d so much time reassuring her, we haven't gotten to have those great conversation" This has to get exhausting after a while. Lauren said that her parent's marriage was not the greatest and most times she was in the middle. That has to have warped her view of marriage. Anyway, the great conversations need to happen and I hope they are happening now otherwise, this relationship will not last. AMO

Having to reassure her while filming the Bach ... When he’s dating other women ..... is not unreasonable, in real life it would be a sign of insecurity ... on the Bach it’s a necessity.

Kashathediva wrote:Hamburger theory.

Not sure what that is ... I was thinking more “old cow theory”.

(Someone like You ...Ashley Judd Hugh Jackman)