Nick Viall & Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - Discussion

The feisty Italian - French Canadian IMO doesn't fake anything. Coming from someone who know's all about Italians - and French Canadians.

IMO I think non fans tend to see these couples more clearly. I don't mean during the show, but the couple's actions afterwards IRL. I say this from the perspective of someone who was a diehard fan of a couple that ended up being a train wreck. Has there been anything glaring from Nick/Vanessa? No. But there usually isn't IMO. It's usually after the breakup happens that we can go back and take note of these things and realize there were signs. Some things that fans will chalk up to 'they're just being them' or see as endearing while others see it as cracks in the veneer, more often than not, the non fans are right. All JMO.

@Kasha I'll take it one step further. Nick Viall isn't capable of faking it, IMO. I think his journey on TB speaks to that if one had any doubts.

ReneeM wrote:IMO I think non fans tend to see these couples more clearly. I don't mean during the show, but the couple's actions afterwards IRL. I say this from the perspective of someone who was a diehard fan of a couple that ended up being a train wreck. Has there been anything glaring from Nick/Vanessa? No. But there usually isn't IMO. It's usually after the breakup happens that we can go back and take note of these things and realize there were signs. Some things that fans will chalk up to 'they're just being them' or see as endearing while others see it as cracks in the veneer, more often than not, the non fans are right. All JMO.

IDK. I've been a non-fan of a few that are now married and thriving, or doing really well and seemingly on the way to marriage. Sometimes being a non-fan can cloud your judgement just as much, if not more, than the fanning. It's all bias, either way.

The truly subjective people are the people who really don't care one way or another, imo. The people who sit in between and just observe. imo.

Of course none of us really know. We are all just guessing until eventually a marriage or a breakup validates one of the "camps." The only people that truly understand what is going on are the people involved. We are just casual observers.

ReneeM wrote:IMO I think non fans tend to see these couples more clearly. I don't mean during the show, but the couple's actions afterwards IRL. I say this from the perspective of someone who was a diehard fan of a couple that ended up being a train wreck. Has there been anything glaring from Nick/Vanessa? No. But there usually isn't IMO. It's usually after the breakup happens that we can go back and take note of these things and realize there were signs. Some things that fans will chalk up to 'they're just being them' or see as endearing while others see it as cracks in the veneer, more often than not, the non fans are right. All JMO.

TOTALLY agree! I was the exact same way with Chris/Whitney. I thought they would last forever. During the time when he would walk away from her or that whole car thing when he went to talk to Witney Carson i was one of the ones that said 'oh well he doesn't have to walk with her all the time', and 'so what he doesn't have to smile ALL the time in interviews', and on and on it went. It was sad of me, looking back. I was just buying into it i think because i wanted to. I wanted them to last. And I, now, looking back can see what others were saying. It should have been clear to see the cracks.

suspiciousmind wrote:

ReneeM wrote:IMO I think non fans tend to see these couples more clearly. I don't mean during the show, but the couple's actions afterwards IRL. I say this from the perspective of someone who was a diehard fan of a couple that ended up being a train wreck. Has there been anything glaring from Nick/Vanessa? No. But there usually isn't IMO. It's usually after the breakup happens that we can go back and take note of these things and realize there were signs. Some things that fans will chalk up to 'they're just being them' or see as endearing while others see it as cracks in the veneer, more often than not, the non fans are right. All JMO.

TOTALLY agree! I was the exact same way with Chris/Whitney. I thought they would last forever. During the time when he would walk away from her or that whole car thing when he went to talk to Witney Carson i was one of the ones that said 'oh well he doesn't have to walk with her all the time', and 'so what he doesn't have to smile ALL the time in interviews', and on and on it went. It was sad of me, looking back. I was just buying into it i think because i wanted to. I wanted them to last. And I, now, looking back can see what others were saying. It should have been clear to see the cracks.

Still don't agree. Non-fans can be JUST as biased in reading negativity into every little thing, as fans are in whitewashing everything away. It's bias, both ways, and can cloud judgement and assessment either way. JMO.

I think it all depends on opinions. C/W for me was a disaster from day one. There were plenty of signs IMO right from the beginning.

For me there was no doubt the trainwreck would happen with Josh and Andi. When she oscar performed for her lead, I knew she'd never be back in a courtroom. When we sleuthed Josh, knowing the spoiler it was pretty much   for me.

Jake and Vienna IMO were a mess as soon as Jake was cast, because getting married IMO was the last thing on his mind. So I wouldn't say the signs are after a breakup. Many speculated on this forum for some couples to break up while Fans supported them, which is fine. We all enjoy discussing "the moment" pro's and con's. IMHO.

mprssdbyu wrote:@Kasha I'll take it one step further. Nick Viall isn't capable of faking it, IMO. I think his journey on TB speaks to that if one had any doubts.

IMO ALL of them are capable of faking it. Just think about it for a minute - - they go on a reality show and meet all these people and the basic premise of the show is to propose or be proposed to at the end. And we already know the backlash if they don't play the game. They get slaughtered in the press. If they play the game right then a TON of opportunities arise afterwards and they become instant 'celebrities' and make tons of money. And...sadly its easy to fake a relationship in the eyes of the public.

Look at this http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/jilted-the-bachelor-bachelorette-melissa-rycroft-breaks-her-silence-8559.php

She says clearly that "On that After the Final Rose, I wasn't getting dumped [there] -- we had already ended the relationship and that was mutual"

And - listen to this. Interesting. Very interesting. Shows how things are manipulated.

https://art19.com/shows/reality-life-with-kate-casey/episodes/9e623cb5-807e-42c6-b6c3-3bbc8d3c2f71

GuardianAngel wrote:I think it all depends on opinions. C/W for me was a disaster from day one. There were plenty of signs IMO right from the beginning.

For me there was no doubt the trainwreck would happen with Josh and Andi. When she oscar performed for her lead, I knew she'd never be back in a courtroom. When we sleuthed Josh, knowing the spoiler it was pretty much   for me.

Jake and Vienna IMO were a mess as soon as Jake was cast, because getting married IMO was the last thing on his mind. So I wouldn't say the signs are after a breakup. Many speculated on this forum for some couples to break up while Fans supported them, which is fine. We all enjoy discussing "the moment" pro's and con's.  IMHO.

The signs are as obvious to me about N/V as they were to you about the couples you mentioned though. But they weren't as obvious to me when I was a fan of the couple. It was after the relationship ended that I was like 'ohhh'. All JMO.

@suspiciousmind That's nothing new to the sleuthers. Over the years we can sleuth fake and real. In the instances you posted, IMO Melissa was nothing but fake to me from the beginning so that's no surprise, especially since we knew her ex Tye her now husband picked her up at the airport after filming was done.

Again, it depends on opinions and what one see's vs what someone else may see. I don't think you can lump them all into the same category. There are many who did not fake it, went back to their normal lives and didn't depend on the shilling post filming.

ETA : @ReneeM sorry just saw your post. Yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. It all depends on who see's what at that moment in time. I saw trouble with other couples that are still going strong. IA

suspiciousmind wrote:

fairytaleprincess wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:Devil's advocate. Maybe they are not that touchy feely cotton candy couple? I can't imagine looking into my DH's eyes in public on camera with doe eyes, forget about him. It aint happening. (I'm talking about the early stages and not now yrs later). Now I would just say get up we're leaving. Now and be out the door.

This is how I kind of view them.  JMO, but I feel like just because their relationship played out in the public eye doesn't mean they need to  be all over each other 24/7. I actually like that they're being so lowkey besides DWTS. Not saying everyone isn't entitled to their own opinion but I  think people are overanalyzing a 3 minute video. The interviewer was asking silly questions. I don't see anything wrong with how they answered/acted in the video. If it was serious questions yes, but it was meant to be lighthearted.

Also, I'm not seeing any other warning signs that they're doomed. He's gone out of his way to include her in his DWTS experience. They traveled to his hometown where they barely posted anything on SM. He wears a bracelet with her name on it. I think little things like that matter more in the long run then how they act in a 3 minute interview,etc.  I don't know what else Nick can do to prove he cares about this relationship. I do agree that the true test will come post DWTS though.

I don't think anyone has suggested they should be all over each other 24/7. The 3 minute video was REAL. The bachelor is fake. Its highly edited and creates the story that's the best for tv. Why do you think this show is so successful? Not because of the track record of successful relationships. . I get that some are fans of the couple and will deny they are going to break up until it actually happens, but to the ones who see it - its clear as day. IMO
As far as 'warning signs'......i don't think there are any that are that dramatic. But after they do break up they will become crystal clear.
As far as reasons, its just things like have been mentioned in this thread and in that interview and others. And things that have been mentioned on various other sites when talking about them as a couple. He can wear a big sign that says 'I LOVE VANESSA' and they can still break up. There are no guarantees. The things they are doing now they are obligated to do. Make it look good, be in love, especially with Nick. Can you imagine the backlash and bad press he will get if they breakup too soon? All of his opportunities will fly right out the window and Vanessa will be forgotten completely. Bachelor relationships aren't normal. Its not like discussing people that met at a party or through a friend, etc. They all meet on a show and at the end they propose to basically a total stranger. Him mentioning her during dancing with the stars is just polite. Chris did the same thing with Whitney. Means nothing. IMO

Anyone can look at a couple and tell they aren't completely happy. There were some that said Andi and Josh would get married, there are some that were holding out hope for Chris/Whitney and Aaron/Helene.....the list goes on and on and onnnnnnnn. I want Nick to find love. But i just don't think she is the one. It's written all over his face. He doesn't look happy. He did on the show - he doesn't now. IMO He didn't at the final rose, he didn't on that interview, he just looks.....bored. And like he made a huge mistake. Maybe he wasn't meant to be with anyone on the show? Some find love afterwards with people totally unrelated to it all. I think he may be one of them.
All IMO of course.  

I don't think Vanessa would really care, if she is an unknown, if they do break up right after ATFR...if it's not working, then it will never work...as Nick has said, he is not going to choose Vanessa even if she is the last woman standing...thus, I don't really think Nick cares whether his opportunities would go right through the window...he simply is just not going to fake it, but be honest about everything...Nick could always go back to his work in Chicago or he could also go back single to BIP, why would he be any different from Chris S...it will just be his umpth time to search for his life partner..no big deal...

- IMO - Regardless of how much edit TPTB has done to TB21...the interactions Nick and Vanessa have for each other are obvious...I have seen it first hand, thus it has kicked in my interests, I don't even know Nick or Vanessa before the show...I do believe that what they have are real soul mates relationships which are really rare...we may look at them as not being the one...but, I do believe Nick and Vanessa feel differently...I think they do feel like they are the one...

I can see from the way Nick reacts from his interview, he is tired of dealing with TB...- IMO - Nick has personally confirmed that TB questions are the least he wants to talk about... - IMO - Nick is not happy with how the social media is perceiving their relationships...anybody in his position would have reacted the same way...why judge when the people don't even know every single details of their lives..but, I don't think he really cares what people think...I think, Nick is probably upset with how TPTB handles them during those questioning hours at ATFR...- IMO - he is annoyed at how TPTB has edited the TB show...- IMO - I think, he hates the insinuation that something has happened during Raven's FS, he basically hates everything about TB--the manipulation, the way they throw him and Vanessa under the bus, making Vanessa an overzealous girlfriend, Raven lovable, thus leaving them with the consequence of having to deal with the SM wrath...- IMO - Nick would rather he not be asked about TB moving forward as much as possible...regardless I think Nick is thankful for being chosen as the lead for TB mainly without this show, he won't be able to meet Vanessa...thus, - IMO - the only thing he can do is just not talk about it...and, move on to the next chapter of his life...- IMO - I remember somebody discussing the reason Nick hasn't gone back for interview with 'Build' after Aftr is because he doesn't want Vanessa to re-live their experience on TB...- IMO -

I actually find Nick and Vanessa happier after the show...both of them have been smiling more...I love the way Nick and Vanessa interact with each other...they act like long time best friends and lovers...not all soul mate relationships end with forever...it all depends on how hard they'll try to make it work...but, I think Nick and Vanessa know what they have...thus, they also know that it is something worth putting 100% effort and sacrificing for...

- JMO -

GuardianAngel wrote:@suspiciousmind That's nothing new to the sleuthers. Over the years we can sleuth fake and real. In the instances you posted, IMO Melissa was nothing but fake to me from the beginning so that's no surprise, especially since we knew her ex Tye her now husband picked her up at the airport after filming was done.

Again, it depends on opinions and what one see's vs what someone else may see. I don't think you can lump them all into the same category. There are many who did not fake it, went back to their normal lives and didn't depend on the shilling post filming.

That's pretty much my point though. If Melissa was picked up by her future husband after filming then it just shows for sure how fake everything can be no matter how it looks to us and everyone else on the outside. You're right, not everyone is the same - not all instances are the same....but IMO its now natural to be skeptical with every couple that comes out of this series. The manipulation and the things the producers ask of these people - its just unbelievable to the ones that think its 'real'. Its a good wake up call, though.

All IMO