Nick Viall & Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - Discussion

sosleepy wrote:

ReneeM wrote:IMO I think non fans tend to see these couples more clearly. I don't mean during the show, but the couple's actions afterwards IRL. I say this from the perspective of someone who was a diehard fan of a couple that ended up being a train wreck. Has there been anything glaring from Nick/Vanessa? No. But there usually isn't IMO. It's usually after the breakup happens that we can go back and take note of these things and realize there were signs. Some things that fans will chalk up to 'they're just being them' or see as endearing while others see it as cracks in the veneer, more often than not, the non fans are right. All JMO.

IDK. I've been a non-fan of a few that are now married and thriving, or doing really well and seemingly on the way to marriage. Sometimes being a non-fan can cloud your judgement just as much, if not more, than the fanning. It's all bias, either way.

The truly subjective people are the people who really don't care one way or another, imo. The people who sit in between and just observe. imo.

Of course none of us really know. We are all just guessing until eventually a marriage or a breakup validates one of the "camps." The only people that truly understand what is going on are the people involved. We are just casual observers.

People who could judge are those who could see both sides of the pictures...but, unfortunately, most of the people who are judging them right now are the same people who are creating the buzz...those who are believing and following TPTB's edit...

That's really tough for couples who really want to make it work...the efforts they need to put in definitely would be more than those that are already accepted by the public...but, if these couples would get pass through these obstacles...they'll be the strongest to be able to withstand the storms by going against the odds...and can be considered as achieving the most success in making their relationships work...

There are several couples who I thought would never make it and did, several couples I thought would make it and didn't, and some who I thought would make it and did. Its a crap shoot. But such is life - most people who date don't make it. Sometimes you meet the love of your life on this crazy show and others don't.

We can all speculate - some of us will be wrong and some will be right. These two will figure out what is best for them in due time.

I admit that I've been thinking Nick looks a little bored, maybe even irritated, when Vanessa and their relationship gets brought up to him. IMO, he's all smiley when talking about dancing and whatever else, then the minute the question about Vanessa comes he gets awkward and like his wall went up. It stands out to me just because he's always so effusive/animated/natural when talking about other women from the franchise...whether it's Andi/Kaitlyn or any of the girls from his season.

I go back and forth on whether I think that's a sign of trouble though. He doesn't look particularly excited, IMO, but he also doesn't seem totally miserable.

I keep reminding myself that we haven't seen Nick actually end up with someone. Now he has something to protect and maybe that's why he always seems guarded. This is his fourth run at this franchise, so it's basically ridiculous to say this, but maybe he is more private and guarded when the relationship is real?

suspiciousmind wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:@Kasha I'll take it one step further. Nick Viall isn't capable of faking it, IMO. I think his journey on TB speaks to that if one had any doubts.

IMO ALL of them are capable of faking it. Just think about it for a minute - - they go on a reality show and meet all these people and the basic premise of the show is to propose or be proposed to at the end. And we already know the backlash if they don't play the game. They get slaughtered in the press. If they play the game right then a TON of opportunities arise afterwards and they become instant 'celebrities' and make tons of money. And...sadly its easy to fake a relationship in the eyes of the public.

Look at this http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/jilted-the-bachelor-bachelorette-melissa-rycroft-breaks-her-silence-8559.php

She says clearly that "On that After the Final Rose, I wasn't getting dumped [there] -- we had already ended the relationship and that was mutual"

And - listen to this. Interesting. Very interesting. Shows how things are manipulated.

https://art19.com/shows/reality-life-with-kate-casey/episodes/9e623cb5-807e-42c6-b6c3-3bbc8d3c2f71

LOL, I get that some do fake the emotions because they are expected to play a roll but comparing Nick to Melissa Rycroft is a bit of a stretch, IMO. I'll go back to Nick's first dance with TB on MeAndi's season. Being real got him into a world of trouble and the reason some still don't like him today. Nick is going to do Nick.

IMO, Vanessa as a F1 struggled mightily watching her love story include other women. In comparing other couples, I do feel Emily Maynard probably struggled the most. As much as I loved Brad and still do, he is not the communicator Nick is. It's one of Nick's many strengths. Emily also did not receive the joint effort of the MOT girls by contacting RS to ridicule her. I won't compare other couples that come to mind because for me it is what it was and hindsight made it so.

I do feel the further the MOT women separate themselves from Nick, the easier this out of the ordinary love story becomes for V. Nick doesn't do easy, bless his heart. Nick will not fold if they don't make it. Will he be sad? Absolutely.

Probably what has gotten Nick in the most trouble with the media and his image is he is what he is. IMO
Example: Plane video. MEandI's ATFR. The whole mess with Kaitlyn's season. IMO
Everyone who has met him says the same stuff. What you see with Nick is what you get. Like it or leave it. IMO
That's what makes him so polarizing. He's not there to win you over. He's is who he is.
Did he play ball with TPTB on his season--yes. IMO. That's what a smart lead does. IMO
Now he is done. So I would imagine there would be a bit of --disinterest etc when having to deal with that season and questions etc.
He can't bad mouth them. IMO If not for them, he would not be where he is or have what he has, including Vanessa. So he has to tolerate ATFR and interviews that deal with that season.
Now he can move on as he and V have said.
I get him.

allykat wrote:I admit that I've been thinking Nick looks a little bored, maybe even irritated, when Vanessa and their relationship gets brought up to him. IMO, he's all smiley when talking about dancing and whatever else, then the minute the question about Vanessa comes he gets awkward and like his wall went up. It stands out to me just because he's always so effusive/animated/natural when talking about other women from the franchise...whether it's Andi/Kaitlyn or any of the girls from his season.

I go back and forth on whether I think that's a sign of trouble though. He doesn't look particularly excited, IMO, but he also doesn't seem totally miserable.  

I keep reminding myself that we haven't seen Nick actually end up with someone. Now he has something to protect and maybe that's why he always seems guarded. This is his fourth run at this franchise, so it's basically ridiculous to say this, but maybe he is more private and guarded when the relationship is real?

Nick was asked in an interview which question he was most tired of answering. You hit the nail on the head. "Bachelor related questions." IMO, he doesn't get why common sense doesn't play a roll when people ask about a wedding date. When his relationship resembles the normal paced journey a married couple has experienced, he'll understand "When are you getting married?". In the meantime, he or they are going to take every opportunity that may benefit them along the way. Who knows how long opportunity will knock at his door?

mprssdbyu wrote:

suspiciousmind wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:@Kasha I'll take it one step further. Nick Viall isn't capable of faking it, IMO. I think his journey on TB speaks to that if one had any doubts.

IMO ALL of them are capable of faking it. Just think about it for a minute - - they go on a reality show and meet all these people and the basic premise of the show is to propose or be proposed to at the end. And we already know the backlash if they don't play the game. They get slaughtered in the press. If they play the game right then a TON of opportunities arise afterwards and they become instant 'celebrities' and make tons of money. And...sadly its easy to fake a relationship in the eyes of the public.

Look at this http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/jilted-the-bachelor-bachelorette-melissa-rycroft-breaks-her-silence-8559.php

She says clearly that "On that After the Final Rose, I wasn't getting dumped [there] -- we had already ended the relationship and that was mutual"

And - listen to this. Interesting. Very interesting. Shows how things are manipulated.

https://art19.com/shows/reality-life-with-kate-casey/episodes/9e623cb5-807e-42c6-b6c3-3bbc8d3c2f71

LOL, I get that some do fake the emotions because they are expected to play a roll but comparing Nick to Melissa Rycroft is a bit of a stretch, IMO. I'll go back to Nick's first dance with TB on MeAndi's season. Being real got him into a world of trouble and the reason some still don't like him today. Nick is going to do Nick.

IMO, Vanessa as a F1 struggled mightily watching her love story include other women. In comparing other couples, I do feel Emily Maynard probably struggled the most. As much as I loved Brad and still do, he is not the communicator Nick is. It's one of Nick's many strengths. Emily also did not receive the joint effort of the MOT girls by contacting RS to ridicule her. I won't compare other couples that come to mind because for me it is what it was and hindsight made it so.

I do feel the further the MOT women separate themselves from Nick, the easier this out of the ordinary love story becomes for V. Nick doesn't do easy, bless his heart. Nick will not fold if they don't make it. Will he be sad? Absolutely.

I wasn't really comparing him to Melissa..... I was talking about the process in general and how people do fake it sometimes. Nick is no exception, I'm sure. And i like Nick - but he is human and he was on a reality show. Reality shows and being fake (even if only a slight bit) is synonymous.
I think Nick did do Nick.... I think he picked the best one for him at the time with the group he had to choose from. IMO
I think he wants to find love for sure.

Re: the Ellen-producer video where Nick seemed bored and annoyed at times, there is the possibility that he was chapped at having to do yet another vapid interview when he needed to be rehearsing, imo. He is a competitor, as has been established by long-time friends/family/schoolmates, and it most likely eats at him to not be better at dancing. Also, that interviewer was REALLY ditzy.

Call me a fan with rose-colored glasses if you will, but I believe this is a very real possible explanation of that particular interview. And it's the only one I've seen where he seemed antsy post-AFTR.

Will it shock me if they eventually break up? No, but for now, they seem happy to be together. imo.

BKay wrote:Re: the Ellen-producer video where Nick seemed bored and annoyed at times, there is the possibility that he was chapped at having to do yet another vapid interview when he needed to be rehearsing, imo. He is a competitor, as has been established by long-time friends/family/schoolmates, and it most likely eats at him to not be better at dancing. Also, that interviewer was REALLY ditzy.

Call me a fan with rose-colored glasses if you will, but I believe this is a very real possible explanation of that particular interview. And it's the only one I've seen where he seemed antsy post-AFTR.

Will it shock me if they eventually break up? No, but for now, they seem happy to be together. imo.

I didn't see antsy as much as here we go again with this group in the cubby! It wasn't a reflection of Nick's relationship with V for me. I think it turned out better than he had anticipated, though. Her producer is always silly and over the top. It's like baby talk, he doesn't do it well!

I guess, I am going to go by what N/V requested (can't remember how they said it but they said), "...Don't compare us to any other couple in the bachelor world..."  I just think they are unique individuals (much like you and me) and a unique couple (much like our relationships).  

I sincerely believe that the only relationships I can defend are the ones I am in, whether it's a love relationship or a friendship. So I will not defend and have not tried to define what is successful relationship or not, in or outside the show. Because I will say it again, a bunch of different factors will play into whether a couple from the bachelor will get married or not.  

In addition a relationship doesn't end in marriage, it will continue after that because again, there are a number of factors that will make a marriage successful or not (and success is a relative definition).  HEA could be one definition of successful, while another can say 3 good years is successful.  

I've learned a while back that loving a couple coming out of this show can lead to my heart break or to warm fuzzies.  As most are saying, I'm enjoying the warm fuzzy moments but are prepared for a heart break (similar to my friends who are falling in love outside of any show).  I've learned that like any human being, each TB character brings a different dynamic in a relationship that makes it different from another couple.  I've learned that it was arrogant of me to say I was able to spot something a mile away because so and so were like that. I'm so good at patterns that I can predict the future, in the same vein - I will stop watching a team because every time I do they lose.  The pattern I see is me, I learned as I matured to wish for the best but be prepared for the worst because human beings are unpredictable.  Thinking that they are is presumptuous.

BKay wrote:Re: the Ellen-producer video where Nick seemed bored and annoyed at times, there is the possibility that he was chapped at having to do yet another vapid interview when he needed to be rehearsing, imo. He is a competitor, as has been established by long-time friends/family/schoolmates, and it most likely eats at him to not be better at dancing. Also, that interviewer was REALLY ditzy.

Call me a fan with rose-colored glasses if you will, but I believe this is a very real possible explanation of that particular interview. And it's the only one I've seen where he seemed antsy post-AFTR.

Will it shock me if they eventually break up? No, but for now, they seem happy to be together. imo.

Just to compare somewhat with the same interviewer - here's an interview with him by himself......seems happy and relaxed. THAT is the Nick I am used to seeing.  IMO

https://youtu.be/EeBjsmWlolM

I can be a fan of the couple and still not be naive when there's blatant trouble in paradise. I don't think just because you're a "non fan" you see things better than a fan of the couple. It's all subjective. Until I see Vanessa moving out and spending loads of time apart from Nick then I'll think differently. For now they seem like a normal couple that's real and not faking it up for the cameras just to please their fans and to silence the non fans. They just don't care about being all lovey dovey 24/7 and I commend them for that.