Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #5

I also think V is F1 and have only occasionally twinges of doubts that they are still together. Would love to c a sign that they are together at the moment if she is struggling. I noticed that N retweeted a message regarding negative sm a few days ago. Feels like the frc is a long
Way off, especially with next weeks preview and all the doubt. Must be some fast catch up in last episode. Loved seeing Vs bedhair on the morning after FS plus looked well loved. So looking forward to hearing what they have to say after from the bachelor.

I'm "amazed" by Bach Nation because the unnatural world created to produce the relationships is forgetting or not acknowledging that the relationships in order to "have a success/make it" post show -IMO- need to be real and have some sort of natural progress, and in the real world things "don't run smoothly" and not everything is peachy (JMO).

During Andi's season I found some of the criticism of Nick "unfair", since he never did anything wrong to Andi, he treated her beautifully, he was putting her first, he was listening to her, hearing her out, tried to understand her and even acknowledged his faults when she confronted him and he apologized ... and yet, he was judged not in regards to his relationship with her, but mostly about his relationships with the rest of the guys, like those people matter for the couple once outside of the show (Jojo&Jordan show it beautifully how much they don't) - IMO.

In that sense, I find the actions Vanessa resorted to ... "natural", what I believe 2 people in relationship do in general, talk to each other what's been going on in their life, exchange their problems and try to ease each other's "pain" and talk about "issues that might/can divide them" - IMO - that is real, pro-activ, since they both acknowledge that in order to make it work, there needs to be more than just LOVE (JMO)... It's amazing how their conversation about where they're going to live, how they see themselves facing the union and what are the core values they live by and want to "raise a family" in is perceived as a "red-flag" in BN dictionary, where the expected is to talk about "how I love you, how incredible it feels AT THE MOMENT, how I see a future with you, because you're everything I wish for in a partner" ... but that future is not defined and most of the issues presented are generic, almost romanticized, like "real life" hasn't hit them yet.

And most importantly in order to have a chance at love IMO the contestant needs to ignore that the lead is dating other people, IMO, since I can't imagine myself being invested in a guy who is interested and gives his attention to other women (romantically). In "real world" that guy is called a player. And since this shouldn't be "a game" (even tho' it is) when it comes to feelings -IMO- but a serious, real thing between 2 people, I see nothing fake in Vanessa's tackling the issues before-hand (or maybe just in time). The "eye-opener" that Nick is seeing/dating/caring/interested in other women becomes so much of a bigger obstacle once the real feelings are in play. And doubts are a natural response. And a fake person, I imagine, wouldn't care about them at all, but Vanessa and Nick didn't even care about the cameras rolling as they approached the subject. To what end? Maybe because the future matters and is only a step away, JMO.

I have no doubt in my belief that Vanessa is final one, they are still together and Nick is good to and for her now and will continue to be. She has seemed so very happy on social media. She got what she wanted out of this, which is Nick. And I've always had the feeling Nick is a great boyfriend and one woman guy. He's thoughtful and romantic. Her social media silence for days right around Valentine's Day and after made me believe she was in LA, they were probably finalizing him on dancing and having their safe house visit. I'm also holding out like 5% hope that she's too going to be on dancing. I believe her current silence indicates she's somewhere else, like LA, or she's just ready for this all to be over with and out in the open with her relationship.

I'm very much looking forward to the finale and Nicks words to Vanessa. I truly think we're in for a treat. I want a proposal like Des and Chris, something unique and that represents them, not some generic canned one liners. I feel like Nick and Vanessa will deliver, and although the edit has hidden much of the love story they won't be able to hide that, and the great interview interactions I'm sure we'll get post show. Nick hasn't gone through all this to not work extra hard to make this relationship work, especially if he feels more for Vanessa than he has for any of the others. And the way he looks at her, tells me he does.

What I see in Vanessa's ITMs show doubt, but everything with Nick seems fabulous. I think tptb took advantage of her better than average acting skills in those ITMs. She is very expressive and shows a lot of feeling.

In that sense, I find the actions Vanessa resorted to ... "natural", what I believe 2 people in relationship do in general, talk to each other what's been going on in their life, exchange their problems and try to ease each other's "pain" and talk about "issues that might/can divide them" - IMO - that is real, pro-activ, since they both acknowledge that in order to make it work, there needs to be more than just LOVE (JMO)... It's amazing how their conversation about where they're going to live, how they see themselves facing the union and what are the core values they live by and want to "raise a family" in is perceived as a "red-flag" in BN dictionary, where the expected is to talk about "how I love you, how incredible it feels AT THE MOMENT, how I see a future with you, because you're everything I wish for in a partner" ... but that future is not defined and most of the issues presented are generic, almost romanticized, like "real life" hasn't hit them yet.

It truly is like bizarro world when it comes to this show and some wonder why so many couples haven't lasted. Vanessa's family asking real and sensible questions meant they are a cold and humorless family and Vanessa and Nick having those discussions means she too is humorless and things are too serious with them and he's not happy.

IMO it's good that they are talking about this now instead of after being engaged. Maybe they came to a conclusion together off camera.

Vanessa wouldn't have accepted his proposal without knowing he was all in JMO

ericbutterfly wrote:I don't like taking word for word what RS says as truth. I am pretty doubtful that whoever told him this drama was verbatim or 100% accurate. He may be 99.9% correct with spoilers but I don't trust this. I doubt Rachel said "I don't have a problem with you but I am uncomfortable around you" That doesn't make sense. We will never know though. I am sure Vanessa told Rachel how she felt and I am sure Rachel probably told Rachel how she felt, but I doubt the exact words and that Rachel got the other girls to "be on her side"... People keep forgetting that the "squad" (Alexis, Astrid, Sarah, Whitney, etc...) were all eliminated when the so called "blow up in Bimini" took place, and Vanessa had two friends present. Danielle M and Kristina. Also, when Danielle M was sent home Rachel, Raven, and Kristina said goodbye to her and hugged her. Vanessa wasn't there. Does that mean Danielle M took Rachel's side too? I doubt it. I am taking this all with a grain of salt. This is all JMO.

I think Vanessa was in the room on her own... since they (Vanessa and Danielle M) stayed together in one room, Vanessa and Danielle M would have gotten the chance to say their goodbyes in there...I noticed a scene in the previews which had never been added to the show on episode 7 with Vanessa sobbing harder... that scene more than likely may have been the goodbye scene with Danielle M...but, then it could also be the scene after when the fight occurred, and Vanessa went back to the room to lock herself away...-JMO-

I believe, Nick as the main character of the show...and being a great observant onto people, he is aware of what has been going on in the house...with the other girls telling him stories...his questions on where's Vanessa (Corinne) when he hasn't seen her in the living room (during the RC)...all of these, for me, can be red flags for Nick that something may have happened...and, that he needs to know what is going on...he would always find out one way or the other...- JMO -

On a show like this - these participants cannot possibly solve all the issues that come up in a relationship or marriage. What you'd hope is that you can find out the approach -- if either of you are demanding, my way or the highway, needy, unable to compromise etc. How would you be likely to approach a problem or situation if it arose? Are you inpatient, untrusting, unable to get along with others? So many things come up as you grow together - how can you hope to pre-solve life's events ? Sense of humor is so important. I am sure that the good couples - the ones who last - do discuss serious matters. I think we are seeing more of Vanessa and Nick's talks because they are very much alike - analyzing and preventive worrying. When a relationship is really good - there is trust -- one member compliments another - and the negotiating or compromising falls into place. I too feel that Nick does not seem happy when he is with Vanessa. This "courtship" time is supposed to be a time of excitement and happiness. Vanessa is driving herself crazy because she apparently is not familiar with the show (there will always be the Corinnes' baring everything for attention) - and we have seen many other bachelors ask more than one father for their daughter's hand. Either there is a trust issue right off the bat - or Vanessa is feeling uneasy about what she and Nick have.

Well she's alive. She just posted on IG and Snapchat. Looks like she's out with her students.

CHO wrote:On a show like this - these participants cannot possibly solve all the issues that come up in a relationship or marriage.  What you'd hope is that you can find out the approach -- if either of you are demanding, my way or the highway, needy, unable to compromise etc.  How would you be likely to approach a problem or situation if it arose?  Are you inpatient, untrusting, unable to get along with others?  So many things come up as you grow together - how can you hope to pre-solve life's events ? Sense of humor is so important.  I am sure that the good couples - the ones who last - do discuss serious matters.  I think we are seeing more of Vanessa and Nick's talks because they are very much alike - analyzing and preventive worrying.  When a relationship is really good - there is trust -- one member compliments another - and the negotiating or compromising falls into place.  I too feel that Nick does not seem happy when he is with Vanessa.  This "courtship" time is supposed to be a time of excitement and happiness.  Vanessa is driving herself crazy because she apparently is not familiar with the show (there will always be the Corinnes' baring everything for attention) - and we have seen many other bachelors ask more than one father for their daughter's hand.  Either there is a trust issue right off the bat - or Vanessa is feeling uneasy about what she and Nick have.

IMO- I don't think Vanessa knows the flow of events in TB since she has been signed by her friend...she probably doesn't know much about Nick's parts in both Bachelorette shows...but, then in those moments during TB21, Vanessa is very invested with Nick...her feelings are real...I feel like her level of connections with Nick are levelled up to spiritual since they can communicate fully and yet have that magic or sparks happening between them...this is kind of like best friends becoming lovers in the long run...her being patient makes me think it is unconditional love... if you love a person intensively, you can feel more pain when unresolved issues give in red flags...Vanessa may have the feelings of doubts and insecurities...but, her tendencies have always been to approach Nick and clear up the issues...the same way as when Scarlett in The Gone With The Wind says 'Tomorrow is another day' after encountering some problems and not getting what she wants...I know these are contradicting scenarios, but I like both characters way of resolving issues...

I remember reading a comment of them being the same, yet different...I don't think that there will ever be persons who are identical, not unless they are their own clones...even twins act differently depending on their personalities and the environment they are raised in, the friends they are in contact with...Nick and Vanessa may have the same cerebral intelligence, but I feel like Vanessa is more emotional...Nick is more stubborn, and restrictive or structured...each of their flaws has somehow complement each other...thus, resulting to bringing in the best of their own persons...I think Nick and Vanessa have really great components in their personalities to build great relationships/partnerships...and with the connections being spiritual, the chances are higher than normal, but yet, is harder to sustain due to intensive feelings of love (being too invested)...without respect, kindness, patience, compromise, understanding, compassion, and discipline, it will never work...Vanessa has all of these qualities, she may come out as a weaker person comparing to Nick, but I think Nick is fair and protective, thus everything will just be fine...

TrishB wrote:I doubt highly V would be "shilling" like most do. She has media experience, acting experience & 2 degrees.  She was represented by an agent here in Canada, so it is only natural for her to expand her opportunities and get a representation in the USA. I'd love to see V conducting, writing or producing a TV show for children.  I feel she'd be great in a setting like that!
I also don't doubt that she will be offered to advertise some products online. But I have an inkling she will pick and choose carefully & selectively, if that were the case. I don't see Nick having the need to do that. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I don't know what 'shillings' would imply or mean... but, if there is anyway that Nick and Vanessa could earn more income to contribute for a good cause...I don't see anything wrong with that...in the same way on how Brangelina contracted themselves to only one publication with the highest pay for the first pictures of their own babies with the money being contributed to charitable institutions or their own foundations...-IMO- I think Nick and Vanessa are both compassionate people...I feel like they would want to create their own charitable foundations to create their own legacy if they have enough resources to do so...

Skates wrote:... in those moments during TB21, Vanessa is very invested with Nick...her feelings are real...I feel like her level of connections with Nick are levelled up to spiritual since they can communicate fully and yet have that magic or sparks happening between them...this is kind of like best friends becoming lovers in the long run...her being patient makes me think it is unconditional love... if you love a person intensively, you can feel more pain when unresolved issues give in red flags...Vanessa may have the feelings of doubts and insecurities...but, her tendencies have always been to approach Nick and clear up the issues...the same way as when Scarlett in The Gone With The Wind says 'Tomorrow is another day' after encountering some problems and not getting what she wants...I know these are contradicting scenarios, but I like both characters way of resolving issues...

WHY VANESSA'S RELATIONSHIP BY F3 (After 8 weeks) WAS LIGHT YEARS AWAY FROM ANYONE ELSE'S

I believe that N&V took advantage of their 2 more private 1-1 times to further their relationship - much further than any I've seen with any couple in TB.  I have noticed that Nick loves to talk (friends say so, and I think even Liz said all he wanted to do was talk during the ONS) and is well-versed in expressing his thoughts (albeit mumbly at times).  It's highly likely (and I say this because we don't see it) that Vanessa reciprocates (teacher/actress - communication is a tool) that take their communications/discussions to a more serious level (I saw this with Rachel too but time with Rachel were a bit more limited than what was arrnaged for Vanessa).  

So having said that, N&V took advantage of the times they were able to talk to get to know each other, have fun, and fall in love (at least for Vanessa). IMO, By F3 they were at a point in their relationship where they could resolve differences before they get too serious and commit to forever.  While, I think his other relationships were still in the getting to know you, fun falling in love stages with others.  That is why I think we see such difference between Raven's relationship with Nick vs. Vanessa's (unfortunately, it looks like Vanessa is high-maintenance at this point).  I just think they have reached the negotiation stage of their relationship, the "what will I give up to be with you stage?" while Nick and Raven are still trying to define what their ideal relationships are such as likes/dislikes.  Also Raven's descriptions of falling in love (unfortunately was in a deleted scene) still has a naivete (unsophisticated) flavor to it - IMO. It just highlighted the difference in age and possibly decision-making process between Raven and Nick.  

I credit all this N&V progress to Nick navigating his relationship with Vanessa (unfortunately we didn't see most of the romantic parts). He took his knowledge of and his experience in the show to ensure that he was able to start and develop a relationship in this petri dish faster than the natural progression given the time allowed for the couple to evolve their relationship.  He was able to get the most private times with Vanessa (that was allowed) in which they can discuss and get to know each other in lieu of telephone conversations (we experience in the normal world where couples discuss likes and dislikes).  He took their conversations to a level of seriousness so that they can start the relationship in the bubble and be able to continue outside (compared to other TB relationships that usually started outside the show).  At this point in the show, Vanessa was in a serious relationship with Nick and was so affected by his other relationships it was making her crazy.  As third party viewers we say, "you signed up for this" but we seem to forget - she probably didn't realize how serious it was going to get.

So I noticed that the next date again is another opportunity to discuss and communicate - not the fun and romantic dates but private enough so that they can begin negotiating how they would take this relationship out of the bubble and continue - if they get engaged. I think this is usually an LCD (if it even happens) type of conversation.  So what am I saying here? I believe that there is some truth to what they say on how one (contestant and lead) should experience the show - if you open yourself to the experience anything is possible.  However, Nick took it to a different level, he also applied his expertise to further what can happen to make one of his relationships stronger and hopefully enduring.

All JMO!