Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - F1-F3 - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

For the record, there's no proof that Vanessa, if she's indeed the F1, feels jealous or insecure because Nick speaks highly or Rachel. I'm not saying she is or isn't. But, tbh, I'm no fan of the speculation that she might be, and that Nick giving Rachel praise spells trouble for N&V's relationship.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been thinking the same for awhile. I am also bothered by the constant speculation whenever Nick does something that seems surprising, like removing the picture of Danielle L. Yes I think that is odd too, especially since he has all the images of his other 1 on 1's but the immediate reactions that maybe it's because Vanessa doesn't like her just feels a little too "blame the woman for everything".

Nick had imho consistent low energy during his interviews these past few days IMHO and if there's one planned soon I really believe a SHV is warranted and would be very valuable.

I imagine this might be due to the edit which has dramatically deemphasized F1 and Nick the past couple of weeks.

I thought he had very interesting things to share about the relationship he wants and the attributes he likes in a girl in the interviews -  clues for his final decision. He said:

1. He's a big proponent of accountability in people and he said he wants to be in a relationship with someone who can own what they did (whatever it may be) and be able to move forward from it
2. He talked about how he'd not want to fall 'in love with the story' like he did with Andi i.e. someone who likes the same things, someone who ticks off the check list, someone to be a 'powercouple' with etc. Rather he'd want to know if he really loves someone, if he craves them, if he wants to spend most of his time with them, do I love everything about them and do they the same for me...

lleyki wrote:

For the record, there's no proof that Vanessa, if she's indeed the F1, feels jealous or insecure because Nick speaks highly or Rachel. I'm not saying she is or isn't. But, tbh, I'm no fan of the speculation that she might be, and that Nick giving Rachel praise spells trouble for N&V's relationship.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been thinking the same for awhile. I am also bothered by the constant speculation whenever Nick does something that seems surprising, like removing the picture of Danielle L. Yes I think that is odd too, especially since he has all the images of his other 1 on 1's but the immediate reactions that maybe it's because Vanessa doesn't like her just feels a little too "blame the woman for everything".

Nick faved this tweet. It compliments your point of view
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

lleyki wrote:

For the record, there's no proof that Vanessa, if she's indeed the F1, feels jealous or insecure because Nick speaks highly or Rachel. I'm not saying she is or isn't. But, tbh, I'm no fan of the speculation that she might be, and that Nick giving Rachel praise spells trouble for N&V's relationship.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been thinking the same for awhile. I am also bothered by the constant speculation whenever Nick does something that seems surprising, like removing the picture of Danielle L. Yes I think that is odd too, especially since he has all the images of his other 1 on 1's but the immediate reactions that maybe it's because Vanessa doesn't like her just feels a little too "blame the woman for everything".

I don't think it's sexism to hypothesize that's one of the possibilities, because there was that same speculation that Kaitlyn left out Nick in her people blogs because Shawn didn't like Nick or that Andi was cold to Nick/never called him to give him closure because Josh didn't like Nick. And, those were at least partly true, IMO. It's one possiblity, along with speculation that Nick dislikes Danielle for personal reasons, but I don't see how you can get away from at least considering that he took Vanessa's feelings into account when he deleted that IG. A lot of past winners have admitted to feeling jealous when watching the show, so it wouldn't be out of the question knowing that dumping Danielle L is what caused Nick to have his emotional breakdown. IMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with this point. Even if we look at Nick's energy lately I think we can see that he is drained...I can't imagine any of this is easy on him and his F1 -- I know we discuss this every season but watching your boyfriend dating other women IS NOT NORMAL.

notarose wrote:

lleyki wrote:

For the record, there's no proof that Vanessa, if she's indeed the F1, feels jealous or insecure because Nick speaks highly or Rachel. I'm not saying she is or isn't. But, tbh, I'm no fan of the speculation that she might be, and that Nick giving Rachel praise spells trouble for N&V's relationship.

Thank you so much for saying this. I've been thinking the same for awhile. I am also bothered by the constant speculation whenever Nick does something that seems surprising, like removing the picture of Danielle L. Yes I think that is odd too, especially since he has all the images of his other 1 on 1's but the immediate reactions that maybe it's because Vanessa doesn't like her just feels a little too "blame the woman for everything".

Nick faved this tweet.  It compliments your point of view
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I couldn't read it so I went looking for it.

IG
1d
iamnikkireed For the last few years we thought addressing any baseless rumors with silence was the best way. Besides, who wants to respond to made up stories about "friends backstabbing friends", "cheating exes", or "cast members exiting shows" on low-brow websites like hollywoodlife that are just perpetuating trends that preceded us. Yuck. I now see that silence was taken as an opportunity to fill in the blanks with even more falsities, and juicer stories, and we, yes WE, believe we have a moral responsibility to young girls to end that narrative, because at the end of all of this, those young girls are the ones who lose. Their passion and endless devotion for a tv show is being taken advantage of, replaced with feelings of anger through divisive techniques, & even worse, their minds are being shaped & molded as their view of themselves, other girls, & what those dynamics should look like are being formed. So here's to putting an end to all those fake stories of on set jealousy, betrayal, made-up-friendships lost & women hating women. Because at the end of the day, that's what this is about: teaching girls that you have to hate other girls only breeds a generation of women who believe you have to hate other women. And that's what these magazines, websites and blogs don't understand. That is the harmful unintended consequence of their bullcrap stories and we have a moral responsibility to fix that. Let's turn this page together, as we all walk into the next chapter peacefully. And finally, let's use this as an example of how important it is to stop this trend of writing horrible headlines about women, painting us as bitter, angry, insecure, heartbroken, childless, feuding, backstabbing monsters because whether we want to admit it or not, it changes the way all women view themselves. And shame on these websites for now targeting an even younger demographic, instilling this at an earlier age when girls are even more susceptible, more vulnerable and more malleable. When we write these headlines we teach hate. I've seen it firsthand. Let's shift what we put into the universe starting now, & hopefully we will start to see a shift in the way we treat each other & view ourselves [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

emusha wrote:

1. He's a big proponent of accountability in people and he said he wants to be in a relationship with someone who can own what they did (whatever it may be) and be able to move forward from it
2. He talked about how he'd not want to fall 'in love with the story' like he did with Andi i.e. someone who likes the same things, someone who ticks off the check list, someone to be a 'powercouple' with etc. Rather he'd want to know if he really loves someone, if he craves them, if he wants to spend most of his time with them, do I love everything about them and do they the same for me...

I think at this point in TB, most speculate or try to understand the rationale for the F1 (at least I do). I haven't watched many of the seasons recently, except for the Nick seasons and the last TB I watched was CS. The last time I have truly been invested was Sean's season (when I was active and speculated Sean's motivations).  With CS - not so much.  I've grown tired of the same formula and this time around I was really hoping to see my guy have his HEA.  Yes I am quite disappointed that I don't get to see the tender moments in each episode (but like everyone else I believe we will see it moving forward).  

However, I am not simply watching him I am also watching what he will do.  If he as he says is the person he has always been, I have a few expectations:

1) He will fall in love with only one person
2) He will only have sex with his F1 and not lead someone else on (like he thinks Andi and Kaitlyn did to him)
3) His empathy runs deeper than any bachelor I've watched

Why do I expect this? (1) He said to Kaitlyn when she rejected him that he can't believe that she "loved" him if she feels strongly about someone else (paraphrasing). Could be an in the moment reaction but because I believe this is his conviction, that he will only fall in love and say he is in love with only 1 person. (2) I wasn't privy to the convo between Andi and Nick in the FS suite but I believe, he asked her (and I don't remember where I picked this up), "do you want to f--- or make love?" Which to me is Nick trying to discern whether Andi loved him or not.  My gut feeling is that Andi chose to respond with the latter so he couldn't understand how she could have loved 2 people if she was picking Josh.  I believe he really wanted to understand Andi's rationale.  So with that said I am hoping that the only FS suite action (if any) will be with Vanessa. (3) Every elimination moving forward will make Nick cry.  Nick has a propensity to become friends with different types of people (IMO), he may develop deep attractions or feelings to several of these women so I will believe that breakups (if we call it that) will be as difficult and as emotional as it was with Jen in BIP.  IMO, he has been in these ladies shoes so many times and I am sure he can feel how they feel.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I am with you with his rationale on his pick for F1; Like him she is unapologetic but straightforward and wise; She is someone he sees he can have a future with; and someone he can't live without.

I don't think Nick had particularly 'low energy' compared to his usual self. I get the vibe that he has a melancholic temperament (http://temperaments.fighunter.com/?page=melancholic). Nick has never been the type to be bouncing off the walls excited so I think if he suddenly looked super high energy it would come across a bit disingenuous.

I'd say he was pretty engaging and attentive in the interviews, like AOL build, where he was given more thought-provoking questions. And I appreciate that more than someone who gives canned answers about how great and exciting this season will be. JMO.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] IA he is much more interesting to listen to compared to previous leads where they continuously say the same thing over and over.

As far as him coasting, IMO what did they expect when they cast much younger contestants but not only age, most of them had zero in common with Nick. I know age in a lot of cases doesn't mean anything, but a 23 yr old IMO isn't ready for a long term relationship.

I wouldn't say he was checked out of the process, rather IMO he wanted to get through the relationships he knew wouldn't go any further. I think he gave them all a chance, but IMO when it comes down to the F3 this enabled him to really concentrate and be sure of his feelings and put him emotionally in a much better frame of mind.

Not quite "checked out" IMO
In one of his interviews Nick talked about his decision making process and described himself as definitive.  
"The processs " of the show doesn't allow for the lead to be definitive beyond a certain point because there is a numbers game at play.  I imagine he reached a point where frustration set in as being ambiguous would be unnatural for a definitive person.

Also he said to Vanessa "ask me a direct question and I'll give you a direct answer" plus at GMA when Anndrew F gave him advice about sharing a bathroom he responded by thanking him for saying something specific.  For a guy who doesn't like "vague" communication, the show and all those convos would be taxing.

Nick may be drained, but I don't give him any sympathy. Dude has been through this 4 times. And he's had a choice to sign up.  4 times.

Suck it up, Bukowski.  You're gettin' paid.

Does anyone think that Rachel might be the one to dump Nick?
I know it's not in the spoilers but Raven as F2 doesn't make sense. It's the perfect story for Nick to get dumped. And it seems like there are PLENTY of warning signs for Rachel leaving.