Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

This episode was one of the most depressing in Bach history from what I can remember.  I started thinking during the volleyball game that it takes some talent to be the "Corinne" of the show.  Some of the girls (or their edits) really can't hold a candle to Corinne when it comes to drama.  The way that volleyball scene played out was very confusing.  It was very choppy and I was left feeling like everyone drank too much early on and then came down from their buzz and were completely depressed about their whole day.  I was wondering how they even made it into the night hours.  At that point I would have been like Corinne and needed a nap  

I agree that Kristina's date was the high point and she definitely moved up for me.  I would put her ahead of Rachel but we have SCs of Rachel in Finland so that is probably not going to happen.  I am guessing if Nick isn't 100% serious about her being in his F2 he will consider her family and past and not keep her for HTD.

I knew once the 2on1 was called they were both going home.  Nick was way too much in his own head, but I was happy to have it down to 6 girls.  I feel like I finally know who is who between all the brunettes.

I am not sure it was included in preview last night, but in the original promotional video there is a shot with Vanessa and Danielle M crying, they are in a closet setting.  I am sure it is during next week because they have the same clothes on that are in the other previews.  I wonder if this is still over Nick's confession or if they all realize Corinne went to his room and they are assuming the worst about him (??)

I think this was the "turning point" episode.  Nick has now shown his vulnerability and concern for his own happy ending.  TPTB planted the seed for the women to start opening up to him and confess they are 'starting to fall for him'.  This in turn will play into his confusion about who will be his F1 because he also has strong feelings for more than just one of them and his fear that he will be rejected by his F1.

Though is was very depressing, I think I may be able to stay on the unspoiled side for the rest of the season.  We will see relationships start to progress each week, more 1on1 time, ect....   I also hope we are approaching the time when episodes end with a RC.  How can we start a campaign to ABC for next seasons ??????  This drives me crazy!!

locoforbach wrote:The way that volleyball scene played out was very confusing.  It was very choppy and I was left feeling like everyone drank too much early on and then came down from their buzz and were completely depressed about their whole day.  I was wondering how they even made it into the night hours.  At that point I would have been like Corinne and needed a nap  

Although Kristina had a nice date and there looked like some "heat" in those oceanic waves, do you think the one or two ladies he has the strongest emotional connection with were in the volley ball date? Raven, Rachel, Vanessa and Danielle were all there and most of us agree that they are among his frontrunners. They were all complaining about not getting any time with him and too much focus on Corrine. Yet Corrine seems to be a distraction or "smokescreen". If Nick fusses over her, then he won't reveal to the others his attraction towards somebody else.

Get what I am saying? It has been done before. Ben Higgins had to question Lauren if she was "who she said she was" based on gossip and resulting in some sobbing because his connection was too obvious to the others in a Bahamas group date.

I saw a preview for this last episode in which he tips over the table (and we hear glassware crash). This is right after he dumps Brunette Danielle. They cut that scene from the main show. Yet I don't think he was all that into Brunette Danielle. They had a wonderful solo date before, but communication was always awkward. I am not sure what exactly Nick was upset about. Yeah she said she loved him or whatever, but her tears were no more dramatic than Dolphin Gal in her departure.

JBF you are probably very correct in your observation.  During the volleyball date possibly he didn't want to "favor" his favorites so instead he put his attention on Corinne.  I think he knows she likes being on the show but isn't about marrying Nick anytime soon.  He isn't in fear of breaking her heart like he might be with Vanessa, Danielle, Raven or Rachel.

Thanks for the different perspective, this is why I love this board

^^^well if that is his strategy, it stinks for viewers like me who are so very very sick of watching a spoiled drunk girl with bad hair extensions be the prime story line.

My tv stopped taping at 1 hour and 7 minutes so I missed everything after and just read recap. We are seeing quite a bit of Rachel and Nick together but did we get much of Nick with Vanessa, Danielle or Raven from cocktail party?

If no Vanessa, in particular, I think this will be yet another episode where she barely gets any time onscreen with Nick. Are they hiding something??

I was very surprised to read that brunette Danielle was given the boot on 2 on 1 date as I had her in my top 4.

My new top 4 is Rachel, Vanessa, Raven and Danielle.

I think Kristen is loverly but saw no real chemistry.

If Corinne makes it to final 4, I will firmly believe she was a producer plant and Nick went along for ride like a good little Bachelor.

I am not really enjoying this season as much as past ones. I think producers are betting the bank on Corinne and she is just not that entertaining. And, Nick just doesn't seem that into her and instead has to reign her in like a big brother (but then make out with her, too....ewwwwww).

locoforbach wrote:JBF you are probably very correct in your observation.  During the volleyball date possibly he didn't want to "favor" his favorites so instead he put his attention on Corinne.  I think he knows she likes being on the show but isn't about marrying Nick anytime soon.  He isn't in fear of breaking her heart like he might be with Vanessa, Danielle, Raven or Rachel.

Thanks for the different perspective, this is why I love this board

Ha ha! We also have different perspectives on how this silly show will end. It seems like Vanessa is the frontrunner going by many posts here. That is, if he actually picks somebody. If we had a poll here, my guess is that she would be the top choice. Also I do suspect her red bikini shots in the main promo may actually be fantasy dates that don't occur in cooler Finland. She, Danielle and Rachel are my top 3 picks based solely on screencaps we have in the promos.

Obviously Rachel makes it to Finland, so she is likely in the top 2. I am concerned for Rachel because the promos make her pecking order too obvious and this makes her more F2 runner up material than F1 material. They tend to keep the F1 more hidden by tradition. Also Rachel is the one I can "see" as a future Bachelorette, not only to break the racial barriers of this franchise but also because she is an extremely articulate narrator who can discuss her "journey" better than the other ladies if she is the lead.

I fully understand why my "pick" Danielle has a lot going against her. You all know me. I always beat to my own drum and have strange choices for F1s. Rachel, Vanessa, Raven and certainly Corrine are getting more screen time, so it makes perfect sense that she is really a Dark Horse candidate.

Basically all I have to go with here is her dance-at-the-dock clip that may or may not be a fantasy date and that voice-over I mentioned before that sounds like something stated very late in the season (like a last chance date, voice-over for a Women Tell All preview montage or grand finale quote): "There's intrigue, there's connection and there's chemistry and it, like, completely exceeded my expectations." Lauren, Whitney, Chris Siegfried and JP Rosenbaum all said similar stuff in voice-overs during their respective seasonal promos, so it does come off as a possible F1 "sign" for me. Not a definite one, just a possible one.

One thing that threw me off was Nick saying their relationship was slow back in New Orleans and she herself says "I am worried that he is getting closer to the other girls". However, I went back to the actual quote and it isn't as ominous as I initially thought. "My and Danielle's relationship has had a great start. It has been a little bit slow going, so I want to rekindle that magic that we had on our first date and I want to feel confident that the connections that I made early on are working." Awww... that is not TOO bad!

Also he does give her the group rose. What is particularly interesting is that Kristina feels the "vibe" in the haunted mansion full of spooks and is able predict it well ahead of time: "I just feel like this rose will go out to somebody who is a little uneasy and I actually can see it as someone who had a 1 on 1 fairly early on... to give some sort of validation that is still there." Kristina the psychic. This, of course, is called the "magical rose" since it is kept under glass during the date like Beauty and the Beast.

He said when dumping the other Danielle (whom I called Brunette Danielle), "I want it so bad that I am trying too hard to make it work". Yet I don't think he is putting THAT much effort into the other Danielle. Instead, he is letting things develop on their own. I see Danielle much as I do Catherine in Sean's season, where she isn't the one he instantly falls for out-of-the-gate but slowly realizes she's the one he's most comfortable with. This is not exactly a love-at-first-sight story. The elimination of Liz, Miss One Night Stand, was the first sign that Nick is changing his tactics and not rushing in like Speedy Gonzales.

I really like his body language with Danielle going back to Meet & Greet. With all the other ladies, including top picks Vanessa and Rachel, he is looking directly at them. He rarely looks directly at Danielle but keeps turning the other way with that cheeky grin of his. It is as if she has whip cream on her face... or boogers in her nose... or something. Maybe he considers her a colossal joke. After all, she made him blush when discussing babies as "thinking of the future" in their first sitdown. Also he is giggling a lot with her and this reminds me a little of Sean with Catherine. In the Haunted Mansion sitdown, he even starts tickling her, even though the cameraman cleverly cuts the action out of our view so we don't notice it all that much. Right after his looking-away-with-Danielle-because-I-can't-stop-giggling, we once again see Nick looking Raven straight in the eye in her sit-down: "Did you have fun today?" Raven says "Yes I did! Did YOU have fun today?" Nick's eyeballs move the other direction as he quickly changes the subject.

In the volley ball game, both Danielle and Vanessa are complaining about not getting any quality time with Nick. Yet the tone of their complaints are different. There was a preview clip of Vanessa being teary eyed, but she is pretty matter-of-fact and dry-eyed in the aired show, more disgusted than anything else. Danielle, in contrast, gets all blubbery as if she has something-something more emotional going on with Nick than Vanessa has. Rachel, of course, just plays narrator, more concerned about Jasmine having her break down.

Bottom line: once Danielle gets the boot... probably after hometowns or the fantasy dates, then I can refocus on Rachel and Vanessa. Just now I am stuck on Danielle.

I forgot all about Raven when picking my f4. My revised f4 is Vanessa, Rachel, Danielle, and Raven. I'm leaning towards Vanessa as f1 but not really sure yet.

Corrine was correct about one thing. Nick loves throwing curve balls.

Obviously lil' ol' me wasn't expecting Danielle to get booted. Ha ha! Back to the ol' drawing board.

I guess Vanessa was given a nice potential F1-ish "obstacle"... of sorts. He said he couldn't say "I love you" until he was ready. She took that to be a bad thing. Yet it may not be. He can easily say at final rose ceremony to her: "Remember when I couldn't say ILY before? Well... I am saying it now!"

Right now, I do see more "heat" with Rachel than with Vanessa. However I was burned by Clare Bear and Juan Pablo's constant groping so I won't be fooled again by "hot chemistry edits". In addition, she is everywhere in the seasonal promos.

Well, I follow one of the former Bachelors on twitter. He basically gave away a spoiler for the next B'ette in a tweet today, which more or less gives away the ending for the show.  So, I guess I'm out. Sorry, guys, but frankly I'm not all that invested in this season anyway.

The next Bachelorette is now an official ABC announcement. It was apparently announced on Jimmy Kimmel with Chris Harrison present. And it should surprise no one. ;)

I am shocked. Not by the choice but by how quickly it was announced with great fanfare. Why didn't they wait until after she gets eliminated? Traditionally this is announced at the finale.

To the average unspoiled viewer like me, this levels the field to three candidates and I don't have much confidence in sweet but mostly "friend zone" Raven and drama queen Corrine.

Then again, if Corrine is correct about Nick's curve-balls, the tease of somebody returning to the show could turn this show topsy turvy. Please don't tell me that is Andi Dorfman joining the show!

One of the great curiosities is why Rachel is the only one teased in Finland in the seasonal promos. What I thought were fantasy dates for Vanessa and Danielle are now covered already. The only curio still not settled is Danielle's voice-over on the seasonal promo that I thought initially was from a fantasy date or last chance date, but now must be seen as just a quote that was spoken already but not aired. Only once or twice in the past do I recall such a prominent voice-over teased but not aired on the main show. It just seemed unlikely to me that Danielle would discuss her relationship with Nick as exceeding her expectations when she was eliminated before hometowns.

Amethyst wrote:The next Bachelorette is now an official ABC announcement. It was apparently announced on Jimmy Kimmel with Chris Harrison present. And it should surprise no one. ;)

WTH???  I stayed strong and unspoiled for all this time waiting for TPTB to show Nick's great love story and happy ending only for them to announce the B'ette????  I didn't watch JK nor do I know while typing this post, but it is only a matter of time.

I guess there is no better time to venture out and check out the spoiled side of things.  Never been there, but apparently ABC doesn't care if I stop watching the show or not.

I have a lot of catching up to do on the spoiler threads.  See all of you next season

Why bother going to the spoiler side? All you will find out over there is what "HE" thinks is the ending. If "HE" has an accurate spoiler, that is.

ABC announced the Bachelorette with huge fanfare, so there is no escaping THAT announcement even if you try. This whole set-up seems very surreal. Yet it also makes me wonder if there is some kind of twist. After all, the preview hints that somebody resembling Andi from the back end comes back. Usually this doesn't amount to anything, but it could this time. I dunno. Should we bother studying the screencap or does everybody just want to throw in the towel and call it a day?