Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

I love Rachel! My guess is next Bachelorette, if not final 1. Nick is just giddy around her, touches her constantly and seems like a smitten kitten. He seems to be nervous around her too. Very sweet.

The fact that her father is a federal judge and she is a lawyer, I just have to believe that it would be classy season.

Tonight's episode was entertaining but Nick seemed to act more like host than Bachelor on group date. I do not see any chemistry with blonde Danielle, she is way too layer back for him and not exotic, sexy, which he seems to like.

He and Raven definitely enjoy each other's company but not really seeing them as a forever couple. Brunette Danielle seems higher on his chemistry chart.

Big mystery is why no Vanessa and Nick time? She seemed to frequently pull back and not try to be by his side.

2 on 1 was so friggin silly. Totally produced and just dumb. Best 2 on 1 will be Chris Soule season.

Previews seem interesting with Nick tearing up. Is somebody leaving? Pretty sure it is not Rachel, Raven or blond Danielle, from what I can remember.

Or does he get caught do something naughty, like that earlier preview of someone going to his room.

I am perfectly content to wait for next Monday. Still not tempted to get spoiled.

MVMom39forever wrote:Tonight's episode was entertaining but Nick seemed to act more like host than Bachelor on group date. I do not see any chemistry with blonde Danielle, she is way too layer back for him and not exotic, sexy, which he seems to like.

I know, I know, I know... once again I must be hallucinating. I don't know why I keep seeing "things" between couples that nobody else sees and, yeah, they may not be there. Once Danielle gets eliminated, either before or after hometowns, my head will be straightened out.

The problem is that so much of their screentime together is so lopped and chopped. All I recall from their date was a helicopter ride that lasted barely a minute, some yacht hot tub time (which at least the other gals haven't gotten yet) and depressing talk about her ex's death, interspersed with all of the Liz business back at the mansion. Plus, Nick DID say their relationship has been progressing ssssllllloooooowwww.

Then again, I might get lucky! She could be the Dark Horse Winner I was hoping for back at Meet & Greet.

Here's my

If the edit this season resembles what we've seen in recent seasons, Rachel will be the likely F2 because she seems to be coming on strong mid season to distract from the real F1. She does seem to have the next Bachelorette vibe going on for me, too, which I can get on board with. I like her very much! I think Rachel would be an interesting lead to watch.

As far as F1, right now there seems to be only two women in that place for me -- Vanessa or Raven. Both of the Danielle's could be contenders, but honestly, I don't see much of a story line for either. It seems to be stalling for each one...imo. Vanessa's story line seems to be about whether she stays or goes...hinted at in the bouncy house episode. She's trying to figure out who the real Nick is and what does he want. I enjoy Raven's interactions with Nick, but I agree with MVMom that they lack chemistry. I don't see Nick choosing someone he doesn't have intense sexual attraction to.

I'm still not invested in this season as Corrine doesn't do a darn thing for me. I don't find her funny...at all! Her segments scream produced. It's a turn off.

I have an observation, but since it involves SCs, I'll post it there.

I was watching GMA yesterday and they did a piece on Trista & Ryan. They talked briefly about this season and Ryan said that pretty soon Nick will have to send Corinne home because she's a distraction. Probably not exactly worded that way but the gist of it.

I still have Rachel pretty high up but could see her as lead. She's a smart lady and has a good personality. I see Vanessa more as f1 than lead. Those seem to be the top of the frontrunners based on what Nick is like around them. Raven and the Danielles are next tier for me. JMO

I saw most of the show. Rachel had an incredible one-on-one and as a consequence, rose quickly in my estimation. I'm not sure that I'm ready to call her F1 just yet, but I will gladly put her at F2 behind Vanessa for now. F3-5 I will currently give to Raven and the Danielle's in no particular order. Corinne I will put at F6 due to Nick's continuing fascination with her. Kristina is on the rise.

IMO Taylor distracted herself with Corinne and took her eye off of the ball.

I loved the haunted house group date. So clever and fun!

Nick has been a bit of a mystery to me this season. For the most part, he's been the laid-back Nick of BiP. But as lead, IMO he needs to take a somewhat more dynamic role. I'm hoping as the season continues to progress, this will be the case.

What a bummer of an episode. Not many bright spots tonight and I'm kind of sorry I watched it.

Kristina's date was really the only good thing. Her story was sad but very moving. I like her and have moved her up my list.

The GD was such a drag and drunk Corinne wasn't even funny. Surely they could have thought of something better than beach volleyball. Jasmine was too OTT and can't blame Nick for sending her home. Overall it was boring and the frontrunners were bummed out.

The 2 on 1 date was another low point. I get why Nick sent Whitney home (was she really there all season?) but not sure why he needed to send Danielle M home when he was already down one with Jasmine leaving. Oh well, it's his choice.

Speaking of Nick, the last thing he should have done is shared his depression with the women. Way to make everyone feel bad, Nick.   It sure doesn't make me excited to see the rest of the episodes.

The episodes do hit a snag around this time.

Rachel already spoiled me in her voice-over during last week's promo, saying two ladies were leaving on the same date. When Corrine didn't leave early in this one, I knew we were getting another double date of doom. Whitney's boo-hoo was already showcased in the promos. I knew poor Brunette Danielle was a goner the very moment I saw him in the same shirt that he wears blubbering to the other ladies in all of our seasonal promo scenes.

At least they showed more of the other Danielle M. this episode than the last three episodes combined. Yet they still edited out their sitdown together. If there is NOTHING going on between these two, then show me! Show me! Show me! Show me! If she's getting dumped eventually, I wanna know why!!!! I want to know why their relationship is as slooooow as he said it was last week.

Rachel was our official narrator this week. Makes me think she is practicing to be this summer's JoJo.

I loved Nick's date with Kristina. I like that he has kept choosing new people for his one-on-ones. Her story is compelling, and she seems to have courage and a great strength of character. But even more than liking and admiring Kristina, I liked the Nick that I saw on this date. He was thoughtful, compassionate, and a good listener. Kristina brought out some admirable qualities in him. That made me think that during his time with women, I should be watching for more than attraction and enjoyment on his part. I should also be watching to see if they bring out his best qualities.

At first I was rather confused that Nick sent home women that he clearly liked (Alexis, Jaime, and to a lesser extent, Josephine,) in favor of women that he has largely ignored up until now (Jasmine and Whitney.) Then I figured that he was cleaning house of the women that he had firmly friend-zoned. I wouldn't mind seeing any of those women on BiP, particularly Alexis.

At that point, Jasmine and Whitney became my picks for the next two to go.

One thing that I (may have) missed was the traditional, "The winning team of this volleyball match will get to spend additional time with Nick." I think that would have prevented a lot of the meltdowns and given the women a purpose for playing the match.

I fell asleep during the last part of the show (chasing young kids around all day will do that to you,) but I was interested, and ultimately gratified to hear of Danielle L.'s elimination. I saw that Nick had had a strong attraction to her, but I was underwhelmed by their prior one-on-one, thinking her lacking in maturity. So I think her elimination was a good call on Nick's part.

So we're down to six? Whew, that was fast. Here's my finishing order for now -- F1 Vanessa, F2 Rachel, F3 Raven, F4 Kristina, F5 Danielle M., F6 Corinne. I keep putting Corinne last, hoping that Nick will see the light, but I have a nasty feeling that she may end up higher. I don't think that Danielle M. will last much longer.

Wow, this season continues to fall flat for me. The only surprise was Danielle L leaving. I thought she'd be in the F4. I didn't even know Whitney's name until last night...so hardly any surprise that she was gone.

I was moved by Kristina's story. I'm glad that she has been treated respectfully by the show...at least I don't remember anything bad in her edit to this point.

We saw very little connection of Nick with any of the remaining girls...which I guess was the point of the episode. We're supposed to question whether "this process" is going to work for him...so we can't have any insight into what's really going on. But, that's part of why I'm so bored by it all.

Vanessa came off as a little whiny to me last night. It kind of turned me off to her. We know from the season preview that she's going to have a little meltdown regarding Nick and his "stupid decisions." My guess is that it's regarding Corrine's, along with her platinum vageen, late night visit. This must be next week if the show is on a typical schedule. I think next week will be the last week the girls are together before HTDs.

I won't be surprised if Corrine gets a HTD. It's good TV fodder...but, gosh, I hope not. I'm not sure who Nick is chasing at the moment as TPTB haven't shown us much depth lately. If I had to bet who's in Nick's F4, I'd predict (no particular order) Rachel, Raven, Vanessa and Corrine. I'm hoping that Nick will spare Danielle M's and Kristina's hearts from further hurt by getting even more invested in him. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but Nick does seem to let women go if he can't see a future with them...to spare them hurt and not waste their time.

I'm pretty sure Vanessa and Danielle M will get 1-1s next week based on the season previews -- yacht date and dancing on the shore date. If true, then Corrine, Rachel, Raven and Kristina will get the GD. I predict that Rachel will get the GD rose after she expressed her concerns this past episode.

Vanessa and Danielle are the two that I have the most confidence making it almost as far, if not as far, as Rachel. These two quotes in episode 1's promo seem to have been recorded at a certain point beyond next week's episode:

"I admire Nick's strength and he makes me feel so beautiful." (with Vanessa talking in an outfit I have yet to see worn)

"There's intrigue, there's connection and there's chemistry and it, like, completely exceeded my expectations." (and this is why I haven't given up on Danielle like practically everybody else here)

Some scenes I thought were Vanessa were revealed yesterday as Kristina, but we still have the red bikini yacht and underwater swim shots that are certainly Vanessa. Those seem more like fantasy dates than next week dates though. However we only have a week to find out.

Everybody else appears to vanish in any footage beyond next week. Yet I don't know if any hometown shots are intermixed in anything we have seen yet.

JBF wrote: ***snipped***
Some scenes I thought were Vanessa were revealed yesterday as Kristina, but we still have the red bikini yacht and underwater swim shots that are certainly Vanessa. Those seem more like fantasy dates than next week dates though. However we only have a week to find out.
***snipped ***

JBF, I've wondered that as well, however, other than Kaitlyn's season, I cannot think of another where the FD and MTP/LCD are in vastly different locations. You're right, though, that we should know how it plays out after next week.

I guess my f4 will now be Rachel, Vanessa, Danielle, and Kristina. I think that Nick will let Corinne go if he feels she's impeding his progress with the one(s) he's falling for. I don't see Nick taking Kristina any farther unless she's the one, at least I hope.