Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

I'll chime in that I'm also very bored this season. For me, very little is coming across as authentic on my screen. It feels very, very produced. I'm disappointed because I was looking forward to Nick's season due to his straight shooting personality. In hindsight, that's maybe why this season is so blah. I think Nick, in trying to carry the show, can't be true Nick.

I'm very curious to know how this season is being perceived by Bachelor Nation. Are the ratings good? Is the general public enjoying all this? And so on, but obviously, I haven't gone searching for answers for fear of spoilers. At this point, I'd like to FF to the FRC. I don't care about anyone enough at this point root for them to be F1. This season seems really weak.

After a busy and tiring work week, I finally got a chance to see the show.

The group date -- As someone who has mucked out some horse stalls in the past, I'm really not going to hate on Corinne for taking a pass on it. I just think she should have stated she didn't want to do it without feeling that she had to come up with some lame reason. Also, it gave Nick some useful information about her that she isn't interested in being a good sport and would likely be a high-maintenance partner.

The 1-on-1 dates -- I loved the low-key nature of his date with Raven. I agreed with Nick that much of it (attending a family soccer match, roller skating at the rink) would be how they would spend time in his home town should anything serious develop between them. It dawned on me that they probably have more in common than I initially thought. Her story about her ex only bothered me in that I thought it was a little bit TMI. Her beating him over the head with a shoe I found rather understandable given the heat of the moment. I'd be shocked if the ex felt he had anything to complain about.

Here's the thing -- I get the sense that the other girls felt it went well also. That's why I think Danielle L. pulled him aside first at the evening party. I think she was worried that he made a bigger connection with Raven than with her. I also think it's why Alexis mentioned Raven as a possible "alien." In a sense, she was teasing Nick about her. Raven is starting to get on the radar of the other girls. I liked her initially as a dark horse candidate for the F4, and I like her for it even better now.

I was less impressed by Danielle L.'s date. She came across as being rather young to me -- not in years, but in maturity level. I felt that this was especially evident in their interactions with Amber, Nick's ex, who comes across as mature and level-headed. I know that Nick has been crazy-attracted to her, but I didn't see it quite as much on this date.

I felt that Vanessa stood out as usual. She had good interactions both with Nick and with the troublesome Corinne. I enjoyed Nick's conversation with Rachel. Kristina also impressed me this week, and I'm glad that she got the group date rose. I like that Nick gave it to her as it showed a lot of sensitivity on his part.

I snorted with laughter at Jaime's "Shut up!" reply to Corinne. I am starting to appreciate Alexis's comic relief. Sarah had some good comments this week.

Corinne, Corinne, Corinne. It seems that no matter what anyone says to her, she interprets it as them saying that she's stupid. This tells me a lot more about Corinne than anything else. Is her vocabulary so limited that it's all she hears? Or is it something that she's heard, or felt in the past? She comes off as being a petulant 15 year old.

Taylor was not wrong about her, and IMO nor was she inappropriate in saying what she did. I just think it was unwise. I think the women should focus more on how Corinne's actions impact them personally and less on her relationship with Nick. I think it's fair to say that straddling Nick or rubbing him with her naked breasts feels disrespectful to them. Or that sleeping through a rose ceremony, or skipping an activity on a group date seems inconsiderate or unprofessional. But whether she lacks the maturity or emotional intelligence to form a relationship with Nick should not necessarily be something that they bring up with her, IMO. The "are you here for the right reasons" chat has become a worn out cliché at this point.

Corinne doesn't seem to have a long attention span, so IMO Vanessa handled her the best by keeping her observations/complaints to a sentence or two. I also appreciated Kristina's "asked and answered" attitude toward her. I have to wonder at Corinne being concerned about the other women's feelings toward her, since that was not something that worried her at all in the beginning. Is she here to make friends, now?

And ladies, when the camera is on you, put the food down for a minute and say what you have to say. Speaking with your mouth full is not attractive.

IA with much of your post @Amethyst I'm not sure I can see Raven as a true option for f1 because I can't see them as having much in common. Of course, it's just an opinion I have but am just not seeing it. I see her as f4 at best.

I don't really have a favorite but if I did, I don't know if I'd want them to be Nick's pick. I'm just not sure about him. It's hard to see it working out with anyone. JMO and hope I'm wrong about him.

Katiebelle wrote:I can't believe I am saying this, especially as I love Nick, but this season is such snoozefest. I actually forgot to watch and only caught up this morning!

It is all getting so predictable and boring - TPTB are using the same formula every season. There is a dramaKing/Queen who sucks all the viewing time, the F1 pretty much narrates the story (my guess is either Raven, Vanessa or Rachel), there's a date with a well known band/comedian, and ex turns up (remember Chad?).

I actually think Nick has some pretty interesting girls and I'd really like to get to know more about them.

Is anyone else struggling with this season?

I feel exactly the same way KB.  I think I posted in another thread that I am tempted for the first time to go over to the spoiled side . . . I am giving it another week or two because I HATE knowing the ending before it arrives.  I like sleuthing, but don't want to know the definite outcome.

I have been unspoiled before but usually go to the spoiled side once I've figured out the f3 or so. I'm holding out a little longer this time because I don't care all that much and don't really have time to keep up.

I re-watched some stuff on YouTube, particularly Vanessa's date in the airplane and her fussing about his Corrine escapades (regarding the mere two seconds that she snooped upon during the pool party). She seems to be getting an edit reminding me of Brooks in Desie's season, Frank in Ali's and Pookie (Andi) in Juan Pablo's. Twice Nick brings up the H-word (heartbreak) on her date. Also twice she says she "doesn't want to be here". Also her solo date clocked over 15 minutes, the longest aired so far. He even tells her when they are flying "I wouldn't want to be with anybody else but you".

Can't predict what will happen. Just sayin'...

So far I'm loving Rachel's date. They seem good together and Nick is putting his feelings out there. I think I'm moving her up.

Just finished the GD. It was a little hokey of course but he did have some good interactions with some of the women. I didn't see anyone move up (nor down) from this date.

I'm so bored with the 2 on 1 date. It's so obvious in every way. I liked Taylor earlier on but now she's too fixated on Corinne. Still not a fan of Corinne but she did make me laugh because of her OTT self at times.

If you are still watching, albean99, then skip over my post here.

I will start out by saying... finally! An entertaining episode, complete with haunted mansion, haunted dolls, Nicolas Cage mask and a voodoo doll! Also a cat fight delightfully edged on by Ms. Tarot Card Reader. Of course, it just has to be another "to be continued".

Being that I am not "spoiled", I guess it is OK for me to spec-O-late here on the rest of the season without making Zeus up on Mt. Olympus angry at me. Now that Rachel's date has been covered on screen and only the lesser contenders haven't been solo with him, I will roll up my sleeves here and shake my magic eight ball.

Rachel could potentially be final one, but she seems very Bachelorette-ish to me. Nick kept repeating how "hot" their chemistry was and all of the kissing was right in front of the camera. I don't doubt they are "hot" for each other, but there is that wink in Nick's eyes that says to me "you guys next season will LOVE this woman!" Since Nick was all interested in Rachel's family, you know she is getting a hometown at least.

Vanessa discussed Nick's Mommy in her solo date a while back, so it is possible (maybe I will give her a 50/50 chance) that she may meet her as a potential F2 finalist. At this point, I am wavering between her and Rachel as a F2 runner-up. In past seasons, Vanessa would be one I would typically choose for final one, but there are too many ominous signs with her that bother me, like his talk of heartbreak on her date, her not wanting to be on the show when the Corrine drama was peaking, his over-talk of how hot they are together (like with Rachel),  etc... etc... etc.

Since Raven also has "all of the qualities I am looking for in a lifelong partner" just like Rachel and Vanessa, I will guess she makes it to top four over Brunette Danielle. Not that Brunette Danielle has fallen out of favor just yet since Nick was amorously stroking her legs as they talked. He wasn't doing that with Raven.

Raven was commenting on Danielle M. (Blonde Danielle) getting the group rose. Lately in these recent seasons, I have noticed F4s commenting on F1s as if they are their strongest competition. I dunno... just a curious coincidence I have been noticing. Maybe Raven does not make hometowns or, in fact, is the final one that I didn't see coming. Yet she seems worth an interesting hometown visit at least.

He said his relationship with Danielle has been "slow" but I don't buy it. They just haven't been together at all since her date so far back. On YouTube somebody uploaded a video of "Nick&Danielle Week 1". (I was careful not to watch anything uploaded that wasn't something I hadn't seen before so that I will remain wide eyed and innocent here.) Their sit-down at meet and greet is interesting, even though she is holding her hands on her lap in a shy and too guarded manner. Twice he looks away from both her and the cameras as if bushing, especially after her joke about working with babies because she is "thinking of the future".

Also on their solo date the following episode in the helicopter, there is a moment that still tickles me. Nick pretends he is on the morning news "Traffic today is mild to moderately clear. We have a collision on 95 eastbound on 101." She then asks "How do you know about all of the highways?" He responds "I am just making it up." Ha ha!

My opinion of Danielle is that she is the Fall Back Gal, representing "home" in Wisconsin to him. She also oddly resembles his mother in her facial expressions.

I wasn't expecting Taylor to not leave but guess it's appropriate. I wonder why someone said they didn't think two would go home on the 2 on 1 date? We know that Corinne doesn't go home because she hasn't gone to Nick's room yet.

Funny thing, I had totally forgotten all about Corrine's "my vageen is platinum" talk in the promos and was kinda expecting him to dump both tonight. They do make you think both are leaving next week.

Ok - I have only watched the first half hour bc it's getting late here but I have to say that I love Rachel and I loved their date - their chemistry was off the charts. And he was already talking about meeting her father!

She is just so refreshing and charming - I don't think I've liked a bachelorette more except for Aussie's Heather and Kiwi's Matilda.

I think she has a very good chance of winning but if so doesn't win she's definitely my pick for the next bachelorette. She's smart, eloquent and genuine - it would be an amazing season to watch - especially if TPTB finally realised that we want love stories and not the dramatic shenanigans they have been giving us.

Also - It was so obvious that Corinne was plastered - I really hate it when TPTB let the women (or men) drink too much and make fools of themselves - they think it makes good TV but it just makes me sad and uncomfortable.