Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

I found all the coverage of Corinne to be exhausting and not just because she was sleeping a lot of the time. I find her extremely annoying (nanny, really?) but kind of a sad one-dimensional person. I like that the women are calling out Nick for how he is with Corinne. It looks like Vanessa's criticism stings. Unfortunately, I don't think it means Corinne's leaving anytime soon.

Speaking of Vanessa, I loved their 1 on 1 date. It's nice to see Nick have some real chemistry with someone. I liked the Nick that was with Vanessa and I now see what a lot of others here have. There's definitely something special between them if he doesn't ruin it.

I loved the Backstreet Boys GD. I like Danielle L and was happy for her to get the GDR. The other GD was just okay although I still really like Rachel. I did like that Nick sent home Dominique when it was clear that it was going nowhere.

My favorites are Rachel, Taylor, Sarah, Danielle L, Danielle M, & Vanessa.

Litta123 wrote:Agree, JBF, tonight was a snoozefest. For me, the F4 were cemented with tonight's episode...already the ladies most of us have identified in the past weeks.

Adding here my guesses both from the caps and edits -- (no particular order) Rachel, Danielle M, Danielle L and Vanessa. Vanessa ticked the box I've frequently heard Nick say was important to him. She will challenge him/stand up to him to make him a better person. Too early to say if she makes it to the end, but I think she goes far. I still think she may be the yacht girl...which makes her have a second 1-1 if I'm right.

This episode felt incredibly producer manipulated. I can't take much more of Corrine. From next week's preview, her drama will continue. We also have caps from the main preview that appears to show her on a 1-1 in a boat with Nick. Since we know, from other caps, the show goes to New Orleans, my guess is that date takes place in the Louisiana Bayou. My point is Corrine seems to be around for awhile. It's unfortunate because I can't stand her edited character. The producers are despicable.

Nick seems to be a very different person when he's on the 1-1 dates (both this week and last). This Nick I like. The GD Nick, not so much.

I was thinking the same as you with the top four including Rachel, Danielle M., Vanessa and... either the other Danielle or Raven. Or maybe Corrine is strung to the top 4 as drama. He just doesn't seem all that "into" Corrine. She is too young and frisky for him. She belongs on Bachelor In Paradise instead with a few children closer to her age.

You will laugh. With Vanessa's date, I kept thinking of Jared/Kaitlyn and I am not sure why. The first part of the date didn't give me that vibe, just the second part with all of that gushy music and flawless "romantic" lighting. It was like the camera crew was shouting "Don't they look great together!"

Also she and Rachel get all of the romantic scenes emphasized in the promos while Danielle M. gets the white bathrobe sobs or whatever. I think Fleiss wants Rachel for Bachelorette in order to break the long awaited racial barrier for this franchise. She is the right age and temperament.

I was in stitches when Nick asked Danielle where Corrine was during the rose ceremony and she just shrugged her shoulders as if to say "she is YOUR daughter too!"

Corinne needs to put some clothes on, condition and comb her hair, and go grow a self-esteem before ever appearing on TV again.

I loved the date with Vanessa, so much so that it has me doubting she is his F1.  Could it be so obvious so early??  It would be refreshing to see a love story this season instead of a match that comes out of nowhere as in some past seasons when they cover up all of the "relationship" with F1 until the very end. Nick is going to have to bring on his mature side if he wants a chance with her.  She is funny, beautiful, smart, and straight forward.  I can't tell from so little screen time but she doesn't seem to be there for a career boost. At this point she reminds me a lot of JoJo (I may be developing a bit of a Girl Crush on her )

I don't like to be set on someone so early in the season because then I don't pay as much attention to the other connections, but something drastic is going to have to happen in order for me to find another good contender for F1.  Both Danielles are great choices but Danielle M is a bit to quiet and though Danielle L definitely has Nick's attention sexually I am not sure about personality.  Rachel is another great girl but I need to see more 1on1 interaction with them.  

Corrine, Corrine, Corrine . . . . as I watch I wonder - you run a billion$ company for your dad - how in the heck do you go back and have business dealings with people after being portrade as such a fool?  Possibly after BIP she will retire and have her nanny take care of her?  Yes, there is "editting" going on but she was in the bounce house, she was spraying whip cream on her chest, etc....  I am sure if either Danielle or Vanessa or a number of other girls were encouraged to do any of that they would refuse.  Already I am FF through all of her scenes, it is just wasted minutes of my life when I could be sleeping instead (like Corrine)

locoforbach wrote:I loved the date with Vanessa, so much so that it has me doubting she is his F1.  Could it be so obvious so early??   ***snipped***

I don't know if Vanessa is F1, but yes, the trend in recent seasons has been to highlight the F1 early. Think Whitney for Chris, Shawn for Kaitlyn, Lauren B for Ben and Jordan for JoJo. All were F1s that were front and center from early on.

Of the potential F4 that many of the unspoiled are speculating (no particular order:  Rachel, Danielle M, Danielle L and Vanessa...possibly Raven), Vanessa seems to be the first one where her conflict is taking shape. Who is the real Nick? What does he want? Is he ready/serious about wanting marriage? Vanessa does not want to be with the Nick who wants to have fun with Corrine, but seemed very attracted to the Nick who showed up on their 1-1. This continuing conflict is evidenced in the season preview where we see Vanessa upset with Nick and his "stupid decisions."  

So, it's too early to tell for sure, but I see Vanessa as a strong F1 contender simply because I see her story line conflict emerging. I have yet to see a clear conflict for the other girls. Perhaps, with Danielle M, it could be can she open her heart again to love after her fiance's death...but I don't see that as a strong story line that only Nick can solve.  As veg_out has reminded us in season's past, the F1 and lead have to resolve one another's conflicts.

The only "obstacle" I recall that Lauren had with Ben was what fibbing Leah did against her in the Bahamas... and his telling JoJo he "luved" her too. Otherwise there wasn't much story. She just stayed out of the drama.

Just as this season is all Corrine! Corinne! Corinne!, that season was all Olivia! Olivia! Olivia! In fact, I am feeling déjà vu with the editing this season. Makes me wonder if we have another humdrum, ordinary and un-cinematic love story and they needed to milk Nick's "controversial past" to bring in the viewers.

Intriguingly Nick has used the stock lines of "potential future wife"/"see a longterm future" with both Danielle and Vanessa on their solo dates. That puts both in the lead until he says the same with each lady on each future solo date... and, mark my word, he will.

Danielle's date was lopped and chopped and probably wasn't all that eventful to begin with, so most of the focus was on Liz telling Christen back at the Bach Mansion about her previous rendezvous with Nick. Vanessa, however, had a more upfront romance showcased. This can be argued either way. Was Vanessa's date more important because there was a stronger connection? Or was Danielle's edited so much to hide the obvious? I didn't see much kissing on theirs, although they got wet with each other. Of course, we have to wait for Rachel's and the others to give a fair assessment.

I think it speaks well of Nick that he chose two classy, accomplished women for his one-on-ones. That gives me hope that he is ultimately headed in the right direction and will get it figured out. Right now, I'm favoring Vanessa for F1. I'm flagging Danielle L. as an early favorite for the Bachelorette, but will have to see more of her personality. But it's clear that the men go nuts for her.

Right now it seems like we have 2 Nick's. 1 is the guy who goes along with Corinne's moves and doesn't particularly seem like he's too serious about this and 2 is the one who's on 1 on 1 dates with Vanessa and Danielle M who comes across much better. There's a higher bar for Nick imo because of his past on the show. I haven't completely written him off yet but he's skating on thin ice as far as I'm concerned.

Great posts guys! IA with everything!

Finally got around to watching and it was such a snoozefest that I couldn't be bothered posting live - in fact I answered work emails as I watched.

This season is total déjà vu to the past seasons -Corinne is the Chad is the Olivia... Also I think it is very obvious who the top five are - I would say Vanessa, Rachel, the Danielles and Raven. They'll keep Corinne as long as possible so she could also make the F5.

They are some pretty amazing girls there so I'm disappointed we are not seeing a bit more of the MOT girls like Whitney who I think is absolute gorgeous.

I think Nick is just having a bit of fun with Corinne - he's a red blooded male and she's pretty and giving him lots of attention. Hopefully after his talk with Vanessa he'll realise that allowing her to behave this way will affect his relationships with the other women.

I was impressed with how Nick looked after Vanessa when she was unwell and I saw a real connection with them. If I had to choose now I'd have her as F1 and Danielle (first single date girl as I can't remember if she is the M or the L!) as F2.

Just thought I'd pop in to read what you all had to say. I got nothing to say any different than what's already been posted.

ETA: I just read his blog post from this past episode and he certainly seems to be very protective of Corinne, justifying her actions.

I also agree with everyone. I think Vanessa could be the in your face F1. She does look like yacht girl.

I have always thought that Rachel will be touted as the next lead, for the obvious reasons, as stated above.

I don't think his body language is comfortable with Corinne. He was caressing Vanessa, grabbing  Danielle, but he seems to just go through the motions with Corinne. I can almost hear the producer yelling stage directions in the background.

And, finally, can we possibly end each week with a rose ceremony?  The fake drama is tiresome.

fijibeachbum wrote:And, finally, can we possibly end each week with a rose ceremony?  The fake drama is tiresome.

I couldn't agree more.  I do not care for the choppy style episodes.  Why watch a RC 10 minutes into an episode that we have seen previews for and basically know who gets roses before the ceremony takes place (??)

Between FF through Corrine, other drama, and RC I only get about 35 good minutes of entertainment