THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION #2

Whoa! Still wiping away the tears from Chase's HTD. He is a goner. He got me right here ------>  
He is that gem who doesn't throw the term ~L*O*V*E~ around very loosely and these ones are keepers. They say what they mean and mean what they say!

Quite a contrast to Jordan's ease with the word. He said it no fewer than 5x in last night's episode (maybe more were edited out). And he didn't say it with much conviction, imo. I'm not convinced. It doesn't seem like JoJo is too convinced yet either. 
One thing is for sure, she cares more about Jordan's thoughts/feelings than the other guys. So yes, that makes me worry for Chase. She is looking for validation and for Jordan to ease her fears and hasn't done that with the others so that tells me that Jordan is her F1, unless something goes awry. 

Oh JoJo, you shouldn't be feeling scared about anyone...you are the lead. I think JoJo equates this feeling with love and I think she likes the feeling. I also think she likes to be the nurturer instead of the nurtured so maybe her and Jordan do have more of a ying/yang in that regard. I just can't get behind this coupling and I am trying hard to stay objective. I don't see anything remotely close to a Jash or Des/Chris or a Sutter thing happening here. But maybe JoJo doesn't want that and that's ok JoJo! I still love you as the gracious and caring Bachelorette that you are!

Whew, those were some HTDs.

Chase's HTD reminded me of Ben F's during Ashley's season--his also featured an emotional breakthrough. It was less about him and JoJo and more about him and his family. Since Chase has essentially overcome his obstacle--saying how he feels--I could see him going out at F3 unless, of course, Robbie or Jordan lets her down.

I still think that this season is Jordan's to lose. When they leave in the edit the "I'm crazy for..." or "I'm smitten with..." it usually signals the F1 (even Des' season with Brooks). Yes, she says it to Robbie, too, but I have a feeling that this sudden development of their relationship is meant to save the season. They are telling us that she's in love with two men, just like Ben was.

I will be so very happy to watch Luke as the Bachelor. He is a deep, vulnerable, funny, attractive, driven man, and I think that the women will be puddles for him. He might be the most romantic Bachelor ever (sorry, Lost).

Honestly, this season doesn't make a ton of sense to me for a lead that the show seems to like: The HTDs drew an even more pronounced line between good guys (Chase and Luke) vs. bad guys (Robbie and Jordan), and JoJo seems to still be interested most in the "bad" guys (sorry, Mia). They're trying hard to redeem Jordan as the misunderstood guy, which is pulling her to him.

This episode was probably the 4th or 5th episode where they reference repeatedly JoJo making a mistake or not knowing what she is doing. Either that's left in there as distraction to make it seem like there's actually a horse race when there's clearly not, or it's foreshadowing that she makes a mistake or several in the next few eliminations, possibly with her F1.

The only chance for either Luke or Chase to win this thing is for either or both Robbie and Jordan to falter or fail her (she's already very skeptical of Robbie even though she's bypassing those flags). There's a part of me that wonders if something crazy happens to have her end up with either Luke or Chase.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that Jo just wants a fun relationship for as long as it lasts. She can use this experience as a career springboard.

ETA: I agree with agent: I'm not seeing Jash or Chres or Sutter love this season.

^^Agree with all, veg.

Even Jordan taking JoJo to his high school has symbolism...puppy love (let me shove you up against the library shelves and make out with you when no one is looking!) 
I see Jordan being very calm and cool through this whole thing...for two reasons. 1) He knows JoJo is all in with him and is completely confident 2) He's rather ambivalent, imo. (Sorry, I don't see reciprocity yet) Contrast the way he emotes with the others.

I just have a question to ask you ladies. It's clear based on what we've discussed and sleuthed that Jordan and Robby will be the F2. So, based on last evening's episode ONLY, who do you think got the next Bachelor edit in his HTD?

Veg, after watching Robby's HTD you think he got a bad boy edit in it?  I couldn't disagree with you more, respectfully, of course. According to his mom and 2 sisters (at minimum) the rumors about Robby breaking up with ex to go on a tv show are false. Do you not believe his family?  What exactly has Robby done that would make him a bad boy? Anyone, please feel free to answer that. Are there some of you who think Robby, his mom, and 2 sisters are lying? Did Robby just make up a story about his ex slapping him?

Aviej, based on the HTDs alone, I would give it a 50-50 chance to both Chase and Luke. Based on the entire season, I give Luke 75% and Chase 25% chance.

Finally had a chance to watch this episode. I was trying to multi task so I hope I caught everything.

My overall impression was that all the HTDs went very well. JoJo has a natural ease to her and a confidence that would allow her to be comfortable in any social situation.

That being said - I just wish she would stop bring up Aaron Rodgers - it's obvious that Jordan and his family are uncomfortable talking about it and it's a very personal issue for them. She's constantly bringing him up - he's had more air time that some of the actual bachelors!

My favourite Mum was Robbys' and my favourite Dad was Lukes' - plus I loved his grandpa!

So the general feeling I got from this episode was that three guys - Chase, Robby and Luke - have very real and genuine feelings for JoJo and that Jordan is just saying all the right things - things that he knows she wants to hear.

And Jojo has major heart on sleeve I wanna be Mrs Rodgers feelings for Jordan, I wanna be your girlfriend feelings for Robby and I think you are cute and let's make out feelings for Chase and Luke.

As for the ending - I think that now knowing how deep Luke's feeling for her are and not feeling the same way - is what's causing the conflict and emotion we are seeing with her. And she is going to let him go because she knows that she will most likely pick Jordan and she doesn't want to see him get hurt because he comes across as very sensitive and very genuine.

aviej wrote:I just have a question to ask you ladies. It's clear based on what we've discussed and sleuthed that Jordan and Robby will be the F2. So, based on last evening's episode ONLY, who do you think got the next Bachelor edit in his HTD?

Definitely Luke.

As I've said before he has the sensitive guitar playing country singing war veteran family loving cowboy edit. That pretty much covers as least of one of most women's fantasies.

Lucky for me it covers all of mine. TPTB can just wrap him up next year in a big red bow and I'll be one very happy, and probably overly excited, viewer!

I liked all of the families, they were all normal and welcoming.  I agree with KB in that I feel like JoJo is either into Aaron Rodgers way more than any of the F4, or something is going on with the family that the show overly exploited or they welcomed the chance to publicly reach out to Aaron.  Whatever the case is its over the top and shows me a bit of an immature side of one of my fav B'ette.  I thought she wanted HEA but maybe she just wants Happy For Now? !?!

I am still Team Chase and was very happy to see their interactions.  He showed a softer side, and I thought he and JoJo must have had some in depth convos about family for her to be willing to be there for that conversation with his dad.  Chase must be serious about JoJo because why else would he decide to see his dad after so long on tv when he appears to be a fairly private guy?  She could have easily just went to his mom's home, but for some reason it was important enough to Chase  and maybe JoJo that she meet his dad.

I really like TV Jojo as a person and think she is doing a very good job as the lead so far. I see her as a very caring and nurturing person. I think she has brought up Aaron for a few reasons:
1) She needed to know what, if anything, she was supposed to say about Aaron to the family. Does she mention him or pretend he doesn't exist? This issue put her in an awkward position and she needed to know how to act when meeting Jordan's family.
2) She has already heard from JT, a man she finds credible, that Jordan has a habit of small squabbles with men in the house. Now he has a brother with whom he is estranged. Is this a pattern? What is the root cause for this fractured family relationship? He says, hypocritically, that he has no relationship with one of his brothers because, unlike his brother, he values his family and has stayed close to them. In this day and age, staying in touch with loved ones is only a few clicks away. Relationships take work. Why is Jordan not trying to bridge the gap? These are all mportant things for her to know and understand. I don't blame her for wanting to know.
3) I believe that as a nurturer Jojo would like nothing more than to be able to say that she was somehow a part of a reconciliation between Jordan and his brother. Whether she ends up with him or not, I think she wants that for him.
4) IMO The estrangement from his brother is, in part, a result of Jordan's low self esteem. It must not be easy to be the unsuccessful brother of a famously successful brother in the same line of work. People are always comparing you. I think Jojo continues to dig deeper about the estrangement because she is seeing that Jordan is wounded down deep, and again, she'd like to see him heal his wounds.

Well, agent and veg, I guess we now know Luke and JoJo's obstacle.  The question is, can he overcome it in 5 minutes?   !!!!

It is interesting that she was shown having the discussions about what she wanted out of this and her expectations with all the guys EXCEPT for Luke.  She even told Chase point blank that he needed to step up his game.  But, Luke nada.  Weird how they are editing things.

As far as Aaron, I think she was asked by the producers to keep that alive.  They have enjoyed exploiting Aaron's name every chance they get.

I rewatched all of the HTDs and am curious about the conversation that Jojo and Jordan had outside on the bench after she had met his family. She said that a part of her was still scared that Jordan would want it to be forever.

Why did she say that? Is it a vibe she gets from Jordan that his feelings may not be as deep as what she wants them to be? Did a family member say something that she interpretted to mean that Jordan may not be ready to settle down at this point in his life? Is it his lack of previous relationship experience? I think it may be all of the above. What do you all think about her comment to Jordan?

MiaHawk wrote:I rewatched all of the HTDs and am curious about the conversation that Jojo and Jordan had outside on the bench after she had met his family. She said that a part of her was still scared that Jordan would want it to be forever.

Why did she say that? Is it a vibe she gets from Jordan that his feelings may not be as deep as what she wants them to be? Did a family member say something that she interpretted to mean that Jordan may not be ready to settle down at this point in his life? Is it his lack of previous relationship experience? I think it may be all of the above. What do you all think about her comment to Jordan?

Thoughts on bench conversation: 
1) Jordan is the only one who she seems to care about what he thinks/feels at the moment where I saw more ambivalence with the others
2) this conversation was left in the edit to cast doubt upon Jordan and to possibly paint a picture of what JoJo might be feeling post-show 
3) JoJo is still not fully convinced of his authenticty.  Her gut instincts are telling her to put the brakes on trusting him fully with her heart.