NO SPOILERS - JORDAN - Bachelorette 12 - *Sleuthing - NO Spoilers*

aviej wrote:I think the reason why JoJo has questioned Jordan so many times, and the reason why the edit has brought in the ex-gf and cheating so far on three occasions, is because, well, it's a real issue that won't go away. Normally you see a major issue arise and you see how they overcome it etc. but I just find that this doubt came in way too soon in the edit. In the second episode I believe we find JoJo questioning her feelings for Jordan. Not knowing whether her nervousness is a good thing or a bad thing. And even Jordan picked up on that. That to me is very telling. If you intuition is unsure as to why you feel so nervous and it's clearly not just nervousness due to feeling giddy, that's a red flag right there. Also, in the other guys' edit, particularly Chase and Luke, we hear them talk about marriage and wanting to settle down. One could argue that Jordan would express the same desire for marriage too and we'd have to wait on his one on one, but, I don't think so...not yet anyways. We see later on when JoJo and Jordan are both in black leather jackets, she was telling him emphatically that she wants to get engaged. Granted that we don't know the context, but could it be that Jordan seemed hesitant to go that route? I really don't think Jordan is ready for marriage. He seems the most immature to me of the F4, IMO. There is a reason why we are getting the storyline of the bad boy vs. the Ben-like guy. Good vs. evil. She is obviously conflicted with her default go-to bad boy and the nice, normal guy who would make her feel safe and protected.

With this kind of edit, I don't see how he can become the Bachelor. Unless it's like another Brad Womack who was unpopular when he chose no one but was "reformed" on the new episode with his psychologist etc. But given how invested it seems JoJo is with Jordan, I don't see him going anywhere...at least until after the FD. Because let's face it, she's a physical girl as she said so she'd naturally want to get to know Jordan better in that intimate setting.  So my thing is, the only way Jordan is going away is if he admitted to cheating and JoJo is not willing to invest to change him. But, as JoJo said in episode 2, "he's learned from his past" so I guess it's water under the bridge. I think this season it's Jordan's to lose.

Excellent post! I agree 100% with your paragraph 1. RED FLAGS!
If, as you say, you don't think Jordan could be the Bachelor with this edit, wouldn't Jo be encouraged to eliminate him sooner (F3 or F4) and give another man a chance to shine as a possible next lead? This is why I think that the order will be:
F4 Jordan
F3 Chase
F2 Luke ....the next lead
F1 Robby

People have already started campaigning, so I think Luke has it in the bag. Although he may be good looking and be a soft spoken gentleman who would make a good husband, I don't think he'd make a good lead, IMO. I believe he'll carry himself better than Chris S. but would just be boring to watch. Great life partner - but boring on TV, IMO. But with regards to Jordan, I agree. There's no way he's gonna be the next bachelor now - not with this messy edit. Also I don't think he's a bad boy in the truest sense, he is the most risky of choices for JoJo to make - undoubtedly. Of the F4, he and Robby are the least like Ben.

I do like the redemption angle, if there is one, but....I don't think JoJo will choose anyone who is < Ben as a man. Not after what she went through with the ex, the Ben ILY-gate, now this tabloid mess,  plus the   Ex-GF dramas that are attached to Jordan & Robby. 

I'm wondering if JoJo will go along with feeling safe with Jordan and Robby until she has had her fill with them? Possible scenario: Those VOs will still be there over the Jordan and Robby footage, but deep down, I'm not sure JoJo will truly be feeing "safe and protected" with them. She will still have the intense physical attraction to them so perhaps she will keep them through FDs.
F4 Luke    I don't think she would take him over Jordan to FD
F3 Jordan   Wanted to explore him in a FD to see if she would feel more comfortable with him/his intentions, but alas, no.
F2 Robby    I feel like he wouldn't be that heartbroken over a JoJo break-up so maybe JoJo felt that, too? 
F1 Chase    Knowing how smitten he is, wouldn't she have let him go at F4 if she wasn't starting to fall? 

Does she stay with her old pattern? Or does she break the pattern?

It is amazing to me how we all see things so differently. Is it Monday yet?????

agentcurls wrote:I do like the redemption angle, if there is one, but....I don't think JoJo will choose anyone who is < Ben as a man. Not after what she went through with the ex, the Ben ILY-gate, now this tabloid mess,  plus the   Ex-GF dramas that are attached to Jordan & Robby. 

I'm wondering if JoJo will go along with feeling safe with Jordan and Robby until she has had her fill with them? Possible scenario: Those VOs will still be there over the Jordan and Robby footage, but deep down, I'm not sure JoJo will truly be feeing "safe and protected" with them. She will still have the intense physical attraction to them so perhaps she will keep them through FDs.
F4 Luke    I don't think she would take him over Jordan to FD
F3 Jordan   Wanted to explore him in a FD to see if she would feel more comfortable with him/his intentions, but alas, no.
F2 Robby    I feel like he wouldn't be that heartbroken over a JoJo break-up so maybe JoJo felt that, too? 
F1 Chase    Knowing how smitten he is, wouldn't she have let him go at F4 if she wasn't starting to fall? 

Does she stay with her old pattern? Or does she break the pattern?

Brilliant @agentcurls - that's actually my dream scenario for this season.

Luke is F4 and gets to be the next bachelor and JoJo chooses sweetheart Chase for F1. And they live HEA because JoJo had the good sense to pick a nice guy instead of a bad guy.

^I don't think he's a bad boy, far from it. I just sense his hesitation in falling in love with JoJo. JoJo herself says she has a pattern of giving/loving a guy more than he does her. So maybe Jordan does come around in the end, she is completely comfortable and feeling safe with him, and they move forward. Or someone else will sneak in and steal her heart.

I don't necessarily think Jordan is a bad boy either, I do believe he is a risky choice just because out of the sleuthed F4, I think he's the least ready for marriage, IMO.

TPTB do everything for a reason. They edit and create the story to get the outcome they want.

I have no idea if Jordan is a bad boy or not (or even Robby for that matter) but they are showing us, the viewers, this edit because they want us to think that.

They are bringing out the ex girlfriend issues for a reason. Whether these two come out of this squeaky clean who knows. I do know this though - and I've only watched this show for 18 months - if TPTB want you to have a bad edit then you'll have a bad edit - whether you're a super duper nice guy or a complete as$hole. They will manipulate and twist to get the story line they want.

They have highlighted Luke as a sensitive war veteran and Chase as a considerate sweetheart  (I mean come on... the snow!) but those guys could be real douches in RL. We don't know especially as we in this unspoiled thread are not looking at their SM.  BUT the personas TPTB are showing us has definitely put them in the "nice guy" category.

I don't think Jordan is a bad boy, just immature , not into Jo and not ready for marriage.  But since tptb could never actually come right out and edit it that way, they need to edit it like he's Johnny Dangerous Bad Boy Extradonaire.  So dumb.

I don't think ANY of the F4 are bad boys. I think that Luke and Chase possibly have more rough edges than Robby.  They edited Chase as a drinker in epi 1 and showed some of his poor loser personality after football date. Luke was a soldier and she has called him mysterious and intriguing.  Robby, the ex competitive swimmer who wears pastel bow ties and quotes Broadway Shows is a bad boy?  The guy is a love sick puppy dog. The ex gf talk is going to be nothing. If I am wrong I will eat crow. They have no bumps in their road so, bam, they need to stir up the pot and drop in a rumor for drama.  Honestly, I'm not buying what they are trying to sell me. The bigger question is Why are they trying to sell us certain things. I think things may get a bit clearer after a couple more episodes. We just need to be patient and hope they show us the actual love story, assuming there is one!

agentcurls wrote:^I don't think he's a bad boy, far from it. I just sense his hesitation in falling in love with JoJo. JoJo herself says she has a pattern of giving/loving a guy more than he does her. So maybe Jordan does come around in the end, she is completely comfortable and feeling safe with him, and they move forward. Or someone else will sneak in and steal her heart.

I see this also. It seems I'm often thinking on or near the same line as you   I don't see Jordan as a bad boy either and like Mia said, I don't believe any of them really are. 

I don't have a horse in this race anymore :Bubba:  (sorry Chase) or yet, but because I like Joso much, I hope her F1 is someone who will always respect her and treat her great and someone who she can always have fun with. So..... today before Ep 5 I predict:

F4 - Luke - I'd definitely rank him higher but can't because we don't see him in Thailand. If he doesn't get hurt and goes home, then I think he must say to Jo on his HTD, "If it's not me JoJo, let me go now." and she will because she won't want to blindside him. Otherwise, I just can't figure out how he's not there.  Strong contender for lead. 
F3 - Chase - I'm putting him here today because he really didn't show up on her radar until he made it snow for her. I'm sure there's a slow burn happening but then I think, out of all the guys behind him, Chase is likely the most logical, for any possible reasons, to be the one she would prefer to take further. Another reason, and probably the biggest, is that their lifestyles aren't as compatible as her's with Jordan, Robby or Luke. Which could be worked out for the lovely dovey love love but when you have 2 or 3 others with similar or more feelings for and their lifestyles wouldn't upset her's as much, I think she's going to invest in them first. I'm just not seeing her living in Colorado or him living in Dallas, maybe that hit her at his HTD. Contender for lead. PS—I was looking at all the interviews (only got thru eps 1 and 2) and I figured out why Chase has us all swooning, it's those sweet, sleepy bedroom eyes. 
F2 - Robby - I'm sorry Mia but I just cannot get behind him. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I still see something phony or smooth or player about him. I'm hoping to see more in Ep 5+ to change my mind. If not, I'll assume, like Chase, that out of the others (MOTs), he was a logical choice to bring along. Jo seems to like him but I don't feel like he's really or genuinely into her. Contender for lead. 
F1 - Jordan - yes he doesn't seem quite ready to get engaged at episode 4 but I saw that preview of him saying he loves Jo and he sounded and looked legit to me.  Add to that, JoJo seems to really like him and I think their personalities and lifestyles compliment each other best out of these guys. I also believe what he said in his package about wanting to share his life with someone, wanting a wife and a family and a best friend. I don't think he'd be ready for this with just anybody, but with JoJo I do. Also, he's growing on me.  I do not see him as lead. 

I cannot wait for Ep 5 and everything after!!danceround

Katiebelle wrote:TPTB do everything for a reason. They edit and create the story to get the outcome they want.

I have no idea if Jordan is a bad boy or not (or even Robby for that matter) but they are showing us, the viewers, this edit because they want us to think that.

They are bringing out the ex girlfriend issues for a reason. Whether these two come out of this squeaky clean who knows. I do know this though - and I've only watched this show for 18 months - if TPTB want you to have a bad edit then you'll have a bad edit - whether you're a super duper nice guy or a complete as$hole. They will manipulate and twist to get the story line they want.

They have highlighted Luke as a sensitive war veteran and Chase as a considerate sweetheart  (I mean come on... the snow!) but those guys could be real douches in RL. We don't know especially as we in this unspoiled thread are not looking at their SM.  BUT the personas TPTB are showing us has definitely put them in the "nice guy" category.

Excellent post and ITA @Katiebelle.

I haven't caught up yet on the threads (RL and sleuthing Richie's season getting in the way) but ITA that if TPTB are editing someone negatively they have their reasons. Doesn't matter if they are F1 or F12 - they do what they want to fit the story they want to sell no matter how real or fake it may be.

From the getgo I think JoJo's season with the Christmas theme (Santa Claus) is about the "Naughty vs Nice" or "Bad vs Good" guys and which one will JoJo choose.

It seems like that is her dilemma -- will she go back to the bad boys of her past or to the good guys?

Jordan seems to have already had doubt in his edit form the season promo so that could be because he is a bad guy (based on edit) that JoJo chooses as F1...or ... a bad guy she let's go before FRC...  I can see it going either way atm.

rhondam

agentcurls wrote:^I don't think he's a bad boy, far from it. I just sense his hesitation in falling in love with JoJo. JoJo herself says she has a pattern of giving/loving a guy more than he does her. So maybe Jordan does come around in the end, she is completely comfortable and feeling safe with him, and they move forward. Or someone else will sneak in and steal her heart.

I see this also. It seems I'm often thinking on or near the same line as you   I don't see Jordan as a bad boy either and like Mia said, I don't believe any of them really are. 

I don't have a horse in this race anymore :Bubba:  (sorry Chase) or yet, but because I like Joso much, I hope her F1 is someone who will always respect her and treat her great and someone who she can always have fun with. So..... today before Ep 5 I predict:

F4 - Luke - I'd definitely rank him higher but can't because we don't see him in Thailand. If he doesn't get hurt and goes home, then I think he must say to Jo on his HTD, "If it's not me JoJo, let me go now." and she will because she won't want to blindside him. Otherwise, I just can't figure out how he's not there.  Strong contender for lead. 
F3 - Chase - I'm putting him here today because he really didn't show up on her radar until he made it snow for her. I'm sure there's a slow burn happening but then I think, out of all the guys behind him, Chase is likely the most logical, for any possible reasons, to be the one she would prefer to take further. Another reason, and probably the biggest, is that their lifestyles aren't as compatible as her's with Jordan, Robby or Luke. Which could be worked out for the lovely dovey love love but when you have 2 or 3 others with similar or more feelings for and their lifestyles wouldn't upset her's as much, I think she's going to invest in them first. I'm just not seeing her living in Colorado or him living in Dallas, maybe that hit her at his HTD. Contender for lead. PS—I was looking at all the interviews (only got thru eps 1 and 2) and I figured out why Chase has us all swooning, it's those sweet, sleepy bedroom eyes. 
F2 - Robby - I'm sorry Mia but I just cannot get behind him. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but I still see something phony or smooth or player about him. I'm hoping to see more in Ep 5+ to change my mind. If not, I'll assume, like Chase, that out of the others (MOTs), he was a logical choice to bring along. Jo seems to like him but I don't feel like he's really or genuinely into her. Contender for lead. 
F1 - Jordan - yes he doesn't seem quite ready to get engaged at episode 4 but I saw that preview of him saying he loves Jo and he sounded and looked legit to me.  Add to that, JoJo seems to really like him and I think their personalities and lifestyles compliment each other best out of these guys. I also believe what he said in his package about wanting to share his life with someone, wanting a wife and a family and a best friend. I don't think he'd be ready for this with just anybody, but with JoJo I do. Also, he's growing on me.  I do not see him as lead. 

I cannot wait for Ep 5 and everything after!!danceround

Re: Chase
I think Chase would move to Dallas for JoJo. He seems pretty crazy about her. JoJo seems open-minded to moving for love, too. I think she would've moved to Colorado for Ben H. Or maybe it will be a join decision for her and her F1.
She did write this in her episode 3 blog:
*snipped*
"When we walked in the yoga studio, the place was absolutely steaming. And anyone who knows me will tell you that I don't do so well in the heat. Cold? No problem. Heat. We have a problem. Yes, I'm from Dallas and I love it there. But that doesn't mean I handle the heat well!"
^Maybe she and Chase share a love for winter? (Sorry, may be reading too much into it ).


Re: Jordan's "falling in love" and JoJo's happiness over the declaration. It's usually not until FD or LCD that the F1 and lead overcome their obstacle, right? So, I do think something is amiss when TPTB are showing Jorjo (almost) riding off into the sunset together already by episode 7. I think there has to be more to it come episodes 8-11.