The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #3

I think now that Ben saw Jojo as someone who knows the score as far as reality shows go. I remember he said something to her on the wild pigs GD where it made me think that. It was when she was saying something about him & Lauren. I wonder if he felt safe to fall for her even if she wouldn't end up being his f1? I don't think he felt that Lauren was a sure thing until she told him she loved him and by then he may have felt guilty on both sides of it. It's not that I think he faked it with Jojo but got the feeling that both of them were more "in lust" than "in love". JMO

Jeepers wrote:The story may have been different .. But the the final outcome would most likely been the same .. Lightening struck on night one .. And was captured in a bottle .. So to speak

Yes!! I completely agree. I watched first episode unspoiled and with no background on contestants, as I always try to do. I picked Lauren as his f1 on that first night and think he has been ga ga over her all along.  I have been enjoying seeing their love story progress.

That said, I think he felt something for Jo Jo too and from what I heard in post show interviews from other contestants, Jo Jo is very easy to like. Yes, she has reality tv in her blood. But, if she is going to star in a reality show with a weak track record of successful couples, I  will sit back and enjoy her season, not too concerned about outcome.

Maybe I should have written, had they edited differently...more like Andy's season when there was team Tessa and team Bevin, and equally strong arguments made for both. Or Emily's season when we had three strong camps for Arie, Jef and Sean. I know that there are strong Jo Jo fans, but ...and no disrespect.. I just don't think they had a very strong case to build for Jo Jo as f1, because the onscreen love Ben showed for Lauren was so obvious, imho.

I am more optimistic about their real world chances than most other couples. They remind me, in terms of being well suited for each other, of a Des & Chris type relationship. Very much hand-in-glove go together.

Ben kept validating Lauren - the picture, the stroll in Mexico City, pulling her aside in Bahamas, sending Leah home, letting her know who he is, showing her the town he's so proud of, introducing her to his friends. They might have been on a TV show but you can see Ben courting and chasing Lauren by showing her what life would be like with him. I remember Lucas (?) saying "follow the feet" because that will be the guide to who is F1. It's been Lauren. I just refused to believe any of those because I don't want to be blindsided.

While I'm not trying to diminish what he had with Jojo, I just never saw it. I think it was more of a friendship because of the comfortability he felt with her. He only ramped it up with her after the HTD because the brothers heavily doubted his connection with her. They said to Jojo on National TV "he's not that invested in you as you are with him." I think that's pretty telling of what the people closest to Jojo saw. All Ben told them was some loosey goosey "there's still a lot of time," and "I will show you through my actions." There was never any indication of a potential commitment.

Compare that with what Ben said to both Mollie and Lauren's dad - alluding to commitment and getting down on one knee and when it happens, it's only because it's real. Those are two different promises to two families and I think he was being truthful and clear where he's at. He didn't want to give misleading information to Jojo's family so he was very generic.

He didn't get a lot of validation though at the end of Lauren's date because Lauren didn't say ILY. So, that uncertainty plays a part in Ben's fear of being unloveable. Coming into the FD, he didn't have that validation so he opened himself up to the possibility of Jojo. There's already feelings of comfortability there so it doesn't take long in a bubble to make yourself believe love feelings, coupled with producers manipulations. I don't think they made Ben say that but I'm sure they created scenarios that got him there. It was only during the FD that I saw him a bit detached to Lauren because I think there's that guilt of saying ILY to Jojo. But at the end of that date, Lauren finally said ILY so he got the validation that he needed. He's then back to the confidence level in what he has with Lauren so this MTP and LCD, I think, will be evident of Lauren being F1. We already saw the preview of his tense date with Jojo.

Running up to that proposal, as much as Jojo's fans want to believe that Ben's decision was last minute, I do not believe so. I think that pain and conflict we saw in him is just showing the character of Ben who does not like hurting someone. It was the same emotions he showed letting Amanda and Caila go. He knew that it will hurt Jojo more because he did say ILY. All MHO.

MVMom39forever wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The story may have been different .. But the the final outcome would most likely been the same .. Lightening struck on night one .. And was captured in a bottle .. So to speak

Yes!! I completely agree. I watched first episode unspoiled and with no background on contestants, as I always try to do. I picked Lauren as his f1 on that first night and think he has been ga ga over her all along.  I have been enjoying seeing their love story progress.

That said, I think he felt something for Jo Jo too and from what I heard in post show interviews from other contestants, Jo Jo is very easy to like. Yes, she has reality tv in her blood. But, if she is going to star in a reality show with a weak track record of successful couples, I  will sit back and enjoy her season, not too concerned about outcome.

Back to Lauren and Ben...I am more optimistic about their real world chances than most other couples. They remind me, in terms of being well suited for each other, of a Des & Chris type relationship. Very much hand-in-glove go together.

Not surprise you mentioned Des. Des is all over Lauren's IG liking her to pieces. People tend to gravitate to those with similar ideals and personality.

I do hope that BenLo become Ryan and Trista 2.0. Would love to see their wedding...

I'm curious to know how far in advance do TPBP plan on who's the next lead. I think they start looking for possibilities early on, but do they leave it up to the lead to pick F2 and F3, or do they manoeuvre their sl and the next leads from early on.

Fingersandtoes wrote:I'm curious to know how far in advance do TPBP plan on who's the next lead. I think they start looking for possibilities early on, but do they leave it up to the lead to pick F2 and F3, or do they manoeuvre their sl and the next leads from early on.

I have heard the season before, meaning that they were considering Ben while he was filming for Kaitlyn and Caila or JoJo during Ben's filming. This is why they often sit in certain position during WTN/MTN or have certain pat roles during airing.  So they will be scrutinizing the next lead right about now and may have a couple in mind.
This would also explain story lines like Chris S. during MEandI's season.

Kashathediva wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:I'm curious to know how far in advance do TPBP plan on who's the next lead. I think they start looking for possibilities early on, but do they leave it up to the lead to pick F2 and F3, or do they manoeuvre their sl and the next leads from early on.

I have heard the season before, meaning that they were considering Ben while he was filming for Kaitlyn and Caila or JoJo during Ben's filming. This is why they often sit in certain position during WTN/MTN or have certain pat roles during airing.  So they will be scrutinizing the next lead right about now and may have a couple in mind.
This would also explain story lines like Chris S. during MEandI's season.

In your opinion, how far in advance or at what point did they glue JoJo and Caila in that they were being considered as possible next leads.

I bet they'll do two ettes like last year. How could they have filmed Caila? Was that just a fake out? Why would Caila subscribe to that?

Perhaps that's why RS is still quiet. He's probably trying to confirm if they will do a similar thing like last season.

From what I understand at this point in time it will not be a thing like last season with the choice between two leads. 
And I would hope if this is thrown out there, Caila tells them where they can go. She has better ways to spend her time. 
They filmed Caila simply because they were going with her and then changed their mind. 
If it walks like a duck---
And with that being said Duck RS is simply sulking.

Rolly wrote:I saw Ben's love story with JoJo. I don't think it's necessary to diminish that relationship to justify Ben's picking Lauren. I liked what JoJo brought out in Ben even if he doesn't choose her in the end. I think his feelings for her were real and for me they had the most intriguing relationship to watch. I know others see it differently it's JMO.

It's not Ben's feelings I doubt. To me he has proven himself to be sensitive, easily manipulated and inexperienced....JoJo the exact opposite. She...and her whole family...have been shooting for her to be the lead and the intriguing thing for me was watching how they (and tptb), managed to wrangle it.

Idlemess wrote:

MVMom39forever wrote:

Jeepers wrote:The story may have been different .. But the the final outcome would most likely been the same .. Lightening struck on night one .. And was captured in a bottle .. So to speak

Yes!! I completely agree. I watched first episode unspoiled and with no background on contestants, as I always try to do. I picked Lauren as his f1 on that first night and think he has been ga ga over her all along.  I have been enjoying seeing their love story progress.

That said, I think he felt something for Jo Jo too and from what I heard in post show interviews from other contestants, Jo Jo is very easy to like. Yes, she has reality tv in her blood. But, if she is going to star in a reality show with a weak track record of successful couples, I  will sit back and enjoy her season, not too concerned about outcome.

Back to Lauren and Ben...I am more optimistic about their real world chances than most other couples. They remind me, in terms of being well suited for each other, of a Des & Chris type relationship. Very much hand-in-glove go together.

Not surprise you mentioned Des. Des is all over Lauren's IG liking her to pieces. People tend to gravitate to those with similar ideals and personality.

I wonder if it's possible Ben and Lauren have reached out to Chris and Des or vice versa for a little moral support and advice. They had similar issues to deal with while the show was airing. Lauren did like the Chris/Des proposal during the Bach top 20 moments countdown, it was the only moment she liked if I remember correctly. There was also an interview with Chris Harrison recently where he compared Ben and his pick to Chris and Des. He was asked if it was premature or irresponsible of Ben to propose, and CH basically said look at Chris and Des. Going into that finale, did anyone think Des was ready to accept a proposal from anyone other than Brooks? And now she and Chris are married. Maybe the show hooked up these two couples behind the scenes. I strongly suspect Ben has reached out to Kaitlyn and Shawn for a little advice based on Kaitlyn saying she talks to Ben regularly and knows who he picked. Based on Ryan's blog post, and the fact that both Trista and Ryan are HUGE Lauren cheerleaders, it sounds like Ben has talked to Trista and Ryan too. I love thinking about these other couples helping them out. They all get it, like really get it. Everyone else just guesses.