The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #3

Lucas15 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:Thanks! I just watched.
And did I read imtge phone call is to his F1's parents? How to we know?

I think a couple of the tabloids mentioned that Ben did make a call to F1's father to ask for permission, but I don't think that necessarily means the phone call we see Ben make is that phone call to Lauren's father.

I think in reality Ben asking for permission would not have been left to the last minute - what if that hadn't gone all that well and it took some talking to get permission? TPTB would not have allowed a last minute derailment or delay to have stood in the way of filming the FRC, so even if that phone call is Ben asking for permissions (which would make for a very dramatic ending and proposal) I think it was well known that permission and blessing would have been a sure thing and known ahead of time.

Agreed but he could have asked before then they arranged for a call from FR spot pretending he is asking for the first time. Like calling a friend on Millionaire... The friend is always there ;)

Another possible reason for the phone call we see, is Ben calling his parents and his Mom answers.   That is one reason why the clip of his Mom is important.  Since he is not choosing her pick, he wants them to know, not to change his mind, but to be ready to accept Lauren.   I also think he calls Lauren's dad, but i agree with Lucas, not just before he proposes.  What a turn of events that last 24 hours have been in sleuthing!

I totally agree Lucas! Imo, Jo Jo has consistently come across as very aware and savvy.

All season we were stumped by why would they make the love story with Lauren and Ben so obvious and why would they show us that Jo Jo saw the connection and confronted Ben in Mexico about it. She pulled back that episode and from what i saw onscreen, was not "all in" again until f3/FD.

There may have been a lot of loving conversations and action on HTD with Ben and Jo Jo, but instead viewers saw the contrived ex boyfriend and the contrived brother drama. That's why I personally had such a hard time with Ben's ILY to Jo Jo next episode as I just didn't see it coming as I was still convinced their relationship had been stalling since Mexico.

When Ben dropped ILY, Lauren seems to get lost in the moment, while Jo Jo asks, "can you say that?" Always aware while ding dong Ben is just going for it.

Seriously this season was just as much about showcasing Ben and Lauren as it was trying to make America fall for their next lead, and edit the show in such a way that it's believable she could transition from f2 to star.

Now we know why we saw the preview with Ben telling Jo Jo that he also loved Lauren, and why Ben was given thumbs up to tell the world at MTA that he is madly in love and engaged. Nobody should be blindsided!

Eviebloom wrote:Another possible reason for the phone call we see, is Ben calling his parents and his Mom answers.   That is one reason why the clip of his Mom is important.  Since he is not

choosing her pick, he wants them to know, not to change his mind, but to be ready to accept Lauren.   I also think he calls Lauren's dad, but i agree with Lucas, not just before he proposes.  What a turn of events that last 24 hours have been in sleuthing!

Either works!! Mama Higgins giving blessing after initially picking Jo Jo (if indeed she did) ...or...as Sophienette suggests, a prepped and ready to give thumbs up daddy Bushnell.

MVMom39forever wrote:There may have been a lot of loving conversations and action on HTD with Ben and Jo Jo, but instead viewers saw the contrived ex boyfriend and the contrived brother drama. That's why I personally had such a hard time with Ben's ILY to Jo Jo next episode as I just didn't see it coming as I was still convinced their relationship had been stalling since Mexico.

IMO in reality there has to be some logic to what happens. In reality TV (which IMO is closer to scripted TV these days) anything is possible - whether logical or realistic or outrageous or nonsensical.

IMO there's some logical ways two people can fall in love. One is, as the Italians say "Colpo di fulmine" - struck by a lightning bolt - powerful and intense on the initial meeting. And another is over a longer period of time - more gradual and building as the people begin to connect and the more time they spend and the more they get to know each other and see how they are compatible the stronger the attraction becomes.

Meeting Lauren was "Colpo di fulmine". The Mexico GD showed Ben and Lauren so "into" each other that all the girls on that date - including JoJo - could see it and comment on it. The Warsaw 1-1 dates had Ben showing Lauren who he is and how he got there and JoJo's date was Ben's father's dream date - not so much his. The HTD with JoJo was a train wreck - brothers who didn't like him and an ex BF in the picture; the HTD with Lauren had Ben crying to her sister (who hugged him like a family member would) and promising her father that if he proposes - it's real.

So we go from that point in time - with lots of reasons to see Lauren working out and lots of reasons to see why JoJo wouldn't - to Ben telling JoJo he loves her in the next episode. That's not anything that strikes me as a realistic chain of events - it requires the stroke of a Reality TV script writer's pen to make that transition. I guess we share that sense that Ben and JoJo had stalled and the lack of a logical progression from stalled to ILU.

sophienette wrote:Agreed but he could have asked before then they arranged for a  call from FR spot pretending he is asking for the first time. Like calling a friend on Millionaire... The friend is always there ;)

I see that FRC phone call that Ben makes as B-roll footage - shot for drama purposes to close loose ends before the proposal. And I think there's two ways it could play out depending on which way they want to show.

One is that it's the call to Lauren's father asking for permission to marry Lauren. That would be dramatic (whereas it's stupid on HTD) and "clear the decks" for a proposal.

The other is that if the MTP dates are edited with Ben's mother not completely buying into Lauren as the right choice for Ben, it's Ben's explanation to her why Lauren is the right choice for him.

Personally I don't believe that the preview clip of Ben's mother is the "last word" we're going to see. Someone has done a very good job of analyzing it (similar to what you and I did on the preview from Bachelor Live) to show just how sliced and diced it is and how we could be completely misinterpreting things. At least on the surface it seems like she is making a determination based more (though maybe not totally) on what Ben said about JoJo than it is on how Ben is with JoJo - and with Lauren.

I saw Ben's love story with JoJo. I don't think it's necessary to diminish that relationship to justify Ben's picking Lauren. I liked what JoJo brought out in Ben even if he doesn't choose her in the end. I think his feelings for her were real and for me they had the most intriguing relationship to watch. I know others see it differently it's JMO.

I think because I was spoiled and knew Lauren was the F1 I tended to focus on that relationship more than Ben's relationship with JoJo, but going and watching a few of their scenes back they really did have a deep relationship

Rolly wrote:I saw Ben's love story with JoJo. I don't think it's necessary to diminish that relationship to justify Ben's picking Lauren. I liked what JoJo brought out in Ben even if he doesn't choose her in the end. I think his feelings for her were real and for me they had the most intriguing relationship to watch. I know others see it differently it's JMO.

I loved their love story and their relationship. There was friendship and passion and to me that's the best combination and a great foundation for a strong marriage. Even though they didn't end up together, they will be up there with some of my favorite couples on this show.

Rolly wrote:I saw Ben's love story with JoJo. I don't think it's necessary to diminish that relationship to justify Ben's picking Lauren. I liked what JoJo brought out in Ben even if he doesn't choose her in the end. I think his feelings for her were real and for me they had the most intriguing relationship to watch. I know others see it differently it's JMO.

I want to clarify that I think tptb diminished the Jo Jo and Ben love story by throwing so many hurdles thete way plus leaving lots of stuff on cutting room floor.

We heard Jo Jo tell Ben on their 1-on-1 that she was nervous about getting hurt since she was hurt so much by her ex.. and surprise, surprise  he is incorporated into htd.

And then in Bahamas during beach date and in Warsaw we see Jo Jo expressing concern about Lauren. Shoot, Producers had Ben ask out Lauren as first date in Warsaw in front of Jo Jo and other girls. That stings and again caused a hurdle, just as having roses at her front door from ex was yet another hurdle for both to cross, and then brothers tough questions was yet another hurdle. Exhausting!

Maybe, maybe producers wanted Jo Jo for lead all along so kept her from completely falling for Ben. Who knows?! I have no doubt that Ben was enamored with Jo Jo and we could have seen a much different season if the producers edited differently and switched up some tactics.

The story may have been different .. But the the final outcome would most likely been the same .. Lightening struck on night one .. And was captured in a bottle .. So to speak

I'm sure there was a lot on the cutting room floor between Lauren and Ben also. I would have loved to see and hear more of what was said between the two of them. However the producers seem to have a storyline and it's not always the way we'd like it to go.