The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

kikora wrote:Ben wrote about his intentions regarding the FS:

Historically, the Bachelor Fantasy Suites have gotten a little hot and heavy. After all, it's the first time that the suitor and his potential mates can spend time away from the cameras. But newly minted Bachelor Ben Higgins insists his Fantasy Suites will be significantly more PG.

"I set boundaries for myself, especially physically and intimately" says the 26-year-old software accounts manager...

Says Higgins: "I based [the boundaries] on my Christian faith and also the fact that a lot of people are going to be watching this show and seeing a representation of dating, relationships and how a man treats a woman. I want them to get a good picture of what a healthy relationship can be."

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-says-fantasy-suites

There's obviously no guaranteeing he stuck with that (part of the snipped referenced his FS with Kaitlyn also) but just wanted to bring this forward since he said in advance they'd be more "PG" and he had "boundaries...physically and intimately..." for the FS dates.

julychild wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

Mr&MrsSmith wrote:Maybe Ben's 2 ILY's is his way of being able to claim he stuck to his values through the last weeks, that he'd never be intimate with someone unless he was in love with that person. Ben gets to spend the rest of his life reflecting upon his last intimate encounter before marriage and know that at least it was with someone who loved the poor unlovable guy.
Just a thought - and I've not had many thoughts around the season

Huh. Interesting thought and a good take on the situation. I do remember during Ben's Sex Ed class on Kaitlyn's season he explained to the kids "hopefully you are in love and feel and attachment to the person" or something along those lines.... So, to have sex with both, he needs to convince himself he's in love with both? Lol- maybe.

That being said, I personally think he had sex with Caila too. The break up scene where she came out of the car- to me while they never came out and said it, that's what they were dancing around- did he know she was going home before he had sex with her? His answer- "no, that wouldn't have been helpful to either of us." Go back and watch that scene- it was definitely about sex, IMO.

You know, I agree with you on the sleeping with Caila part. He had said in his blog ( yes, I believe he writes them) that what happened in the FS didn't stay there, or something like that. Ben wouldn't have seen that episode when he wrote that, it was his assumption that the full conversation would make the episode, but the producers chose to edit that scene and we didn't get the full convo. I think that was why Caila was really angry. Things must have gone far enough for her to feel he was in love, even if he couldn't say it, as she thought.

Not judging him, couldn't care less, but this has been my feelings about that situation.

NCGalBecca wrote:These editors are crafty enough to put together a season without having to pull two ILYs. They've done it for 20 seasons. I think he coughed it up and they ran gleefully with it. Look how emotional and second guessing he has been all season. The women have had to come to his emotional rescue often.

Given what he's said about his faith and his admiration for his parents' relationship, I fail to see how if he was so taken by Lauren mid-season how those words ever crossed his lips with JoJo..not once but multiple times with more coming next week..it's not a drunken oops to me. I just think there are different emotional and physical drivers as to why he said it to both of them.

NCGalBecca wrote:These editors are crafty enough to put together a season without having to pull two ILYs. They've done it for 20 seasons. I think he coughed it up and they ran gleefully with it. Look how emotional and second guessing he has been all season. The women have had to come to his emotional rescue often.

Given what he's said about his faith and his admiration for his parents' relationship, I fail to see how if he was so taken by Lauren mid-season how those words ever crossed his lips with JoJo..not once but multiple times with more coming next week..it's not a drunken oops to me. I just think there are different emotional and physical drivers as to why he said it to both of them.

sosleepy wrote:I don't for one second believe that Ben's mom chose his F1. That is ridiculous. Did she have an opinion? Probably. But I doubt it made Ben's decision. Could it have helped? Sure. If it was easy with both Lauren's family and Ben's family and difficult with JoJo's fam and Ben's fam- that could most definitely weigh on his decision. It just further points to the fact that Lauren/Ben are better suited IRL than JoJo/Ben.

For the VAST majority of this season it was "Lauren has this locked up; she's F1, no contest." One episode, and all the sudden "Ben is the most conflicted Bachelor ever and his mom had to decide for him?" Yeah, not buying it. Too much whip lash. Lauren was STRONG out of the gate- was most definitely the far and away front runner. He and JoJo had a good friendship and it developed into feelings, no doubt. She's hot and dresses to kill, so lust was there too. Regardless, he was ready and prepared to let her go at he beginning of FSD.  I think he had an AMAZING time with her in Jamaica and that confused him. But ultimately, all parts combined, Lauren is still the one for him.

JoJo and Ben just don't match IRL. Lauren and Ben do. It probably didn't take long out of the bubble for all of them to realize this.

mindless wrote:I don't think Ben was truly conflicted. I think it was always Lauren in the sense that she caught his attention right out of the limo and his feelings towards her never really wavered. However, I do believe JoJo did some serious catching up towards the end and Ben was able to see a future with her as well. But he could only pick one, so he went with the one he'd been in love with for a while. That doesn't mean JoJo didn't have a lot of qualities he'll be missing.

rhondam wrote:

mindless wrote:I don't think Ben was truly conflicted. I think it was always Lauren in the sense that she caught his attention right out of the limo and his feelings towards her never really wavered. However, I do believe JoJo did some serious catching up towards the end and Ben was able to see a future with her as well. But he could only pick one, so he went with the one he'd been in love with for a while. That doesn't mean JoJo didn't have a lot of qualities he'll be missing.

And this ^ (bolded) is why I would never want to continue being his F1. The F2 will likely pop into his head for various reasons at different times in his life forevermore. If I'm his wife, realizing the inevitability of this fact, knowing how he felt about F2, knowing the world knows how he felt about her and being able to see it at anytime (if she hasn't) or not being able to erase it from her mind if she has, would make me not be able to keep the ring. 

I do realize she would find comfort knowing his final choice was her despite his feelings for F2, but I personally couldn't and wouldn't because throughout the relationship/marriage, I'd often wonder if I was being compared to F2 or wondering when, not if, he was thinking "what if" because I believe most of us think "what if" from time to time. It is the same with a typical ex, but you usually don't know each other to the extent that the F1 and F2 do and you very likely weren't being decided between days before being proposed to. Imo, it would take an extremely confident person to be secure with living a life with this particular husband knowing all of this. I hope they do not rush a marriage until she knows for sure if she'll be able to come to terms with this.

rhondam wrote:

mindless wrote:I don't think Ben was truly conflicted. I think it was always Lauren in the sense that she caught his attention right out of the limo and his feelings towards her never really wavered. However, I do believe JoJo did some serious catching up towards the end and Ben was able to see a future with her as well. But he could only pick one, so he went with the one he'd been in love with for a while. That doesn't mean JoJo didn't have a lot of qualities he'll be missing.

And this ^ (bolded) is why I would never want to continue being his F1. The F2 will likely pop into his head for various reasons at different times in his life forevermore. If I'm his wife, realizing the inevitability of this fact, knowing how he felt about F2, knowing the world knows how he felt about her and being able to see it at anytime (if she hasn't) or not being able to erase it from her mind if she has, would make me not be able to keep the ring. .

sosleepy wrote:I don't think the producers flat out told him to say ILY- like a completely scripted scenario, neither ILY felt scripted to me in the least, but I bet they sure as heck encouraged it! They probably had it story boarded out, then heavily encouraged Ben to speak how he feels; made him feel safe and kind of brainwashed him to think saying ILY to both and really speaking how he feels and not holding back is the good choice.

I can't believe the whip lash this season. It went from "Ben is ALL about Lauren, no one else, she has it locked up" to "he is the most confused bachelor of all time and couldn't figure or who he was going to pick until the final hour" over the course of ONE episode. I don't totally buy it. It was always Lauren, though his feelings for JoJo definitely grew. Producers played on that- the emotionally charged and not very relationship savvy Ben and ENCOURAGED him heavily to speak what he was feeling to both. Boom. They get their drama that was previously lacking.

ETA: other ways they can get Ben to say ILY to both: whisper doubts about his front runner (Lauren). Make him heavily question how she feels about him. At the same time, keep whispering to give JoJo another look. Keep talking her up, telling him how in love she is with him. That kind of manipulation would make anyone take a pause with the person they really want and allow them to become more emotionally available to the second.