The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

mysthelma wrote:I got the impression they all knew who was getting a hometown date except Becca because they wanted her to be blindsided

I think that Becca was the "safety" in case anyone in the F4 imploded.

I like all of the women in the F5. I can't remember that happening before. It speaks very well of the type of women that Ben was able to both attract and keep around.

I agree, I liked all f5 girls. That never ever happens for me!

I Like all F5 women, too and with the exception of Becca (who I actually like) and Caila (too tv rehearsed, imo), could picture Ben making it work with them in the real world. Kind-hearted girls, all of them.

I like them all too, and they seem to genuinely like each other. I've noticed how supportive they are for the most part, happy for each other and comforting when someone's having a rough time.

I agree. This season has been a pleasure to watch. For someone who gave up on this franchise since Emily's season, maybe watched Desiree's for few episodes, this season was a great choice for me to watch again. I like everyone involved, from Ben to his bachelorettes. I might have a soft spot for Jojo, but I like the other ones too. This is a first for me

Just trying to keep track. I understand this is probably futile, but I'm just going with it. Plus, it's nice to look back on it as a reference later. 
Disclaimer: I added quite a bit to the Lauren side. Plus, Lauren's side is a little more post-show clue heavy and JoJo's is more edit heavy. 
I tried to recall and document what other's have told me to subtract/add. Please let me know if there is more. 

Lauren F1:
Spoiler
Undeniable attraction & bond
Special 1-on-1 time to walk thru Mex City
Photo of their first interaction at mansion
Ben wowed upon first glance out of limo "she takes my breath away"
Blindside references (JoJo, Becca, Ben) 
Family seems happy/excited
Mollie's Snapchat about Lauren's US Weekly cover
Friends of Ben's and youth center following her SM & she follows them
Possible Twitter clues ("fixer upper" references, L's Piglet one-sie to Ben's Pooh Bear, various food pics, sushi post, country music post)
Her quieter SM activity, sans promos (low-key F1 behavior)
Ben's trips to LA
JoJo's lack of travel to LA
Other contestants commented on their obvious connection
Not much is said about Lauren in Ben's ITMs (would give too much away?) 
Personal invitation to 1-on-1 in Indiana & in his everyday element, met his friends
JoJo being more guarded, the relationship never catches up
JoJo's busy SM activity (maybe preparing for next step post-Ben?)
Is JoJo going through motions/scripting to get 'Ette role? 
Us Weekly story (Usually some grains of truth?)
Lauren is emo in ITMs (peredit, in line typical F1)
ILY-gate put out early in season
TPTB have held back in previews LauBen confessions for a later time to possibly get max impact 
Ben shown saying an emotional ILY to L in preview
Season preview: "What we have is real (hugs Caila) and scary (w.fall jump with JoJo) and amazing (kisses Amanda in hot tub) and just (kisses Lauren H.) incredible (kisses Caila FD NP) No Lauren B. in sight
Season preview: no LB profession of feelings or love in person; but one JoJo confession in person
Ben's speechless, tearful breakdown with Mollie when she expressed some skepticism
Ben's talk of getting down on one knee to L's father, looking emo
Lauren traveled back to LA from Portland the same day Ben flew in (for taping of WTA)
Lauren's "girlfriend" & "wife" references
THE LOOKS, Ben can't put his feelings for L into words it seems
JoJo's strange/hostile HTD (staged?)(the point of whom no one would return?)
JoJo's ex (questions looming: is she over him?)
Ben might've liked one of L's IG pics by mistake, then quickly unliked
Disney Tinkerbell dust promo with Lauren (from night one) getting "the last rose"  (subliminal messaging?)
Order of filming HTD & FDs; both of Lauren's were filmed last (F1)
Lauren got the best choice/biggest/more luxurious FS out of F3
FD seems hand-picked for Lauren, Ben does those "special things" for her
Recent silk green robe IG post (worn throughout season, Jamaica clips)
Is Ben calling Lauren's dad just before FRC? (he didn't solidify asking for her hand during HTD)
CH talking up JoJo (trying to put her more center)

Foiler/upset:
Would Ben take JoJo all the way to F2 just to dump her after he promised her he wouldn't blindside her? (he let Becca go early after she told him the same)
Spoiled F1 front and center (not as hidden as previous F1s) for majority of season
Spoiler put out quite early in season
Blinding viewers w/LauBen in edit post-spoiler so other relationships go under the radar? 
Foiler was overturned by SnapchatGate last season, when will another foiler strike?
Possible intense, but quick flame vs. slow burn edit
JoJo's edit - narrating a lot; camera pans to her often for her reactions: jealousy, sadness, happiness 
JoJo's edit - the supportive/nurturing/dependable figure...Ben's VO "she makes me a better man" (is this about JoJo? He did say she makes him feel better himself)
Doubts/fears expressed by JoJo, a more dynamic character arc and challenge to overcome
Curious you tube channel dedicated to Lauren: "xBushnellBachelorettex"
MF's comment about this season being his 2nd fave after Jolly's, why? 
"3/4 of a Mesnick" reference, (What IS a Bensnick exactly? Is it crying over the rail or something more (no switch though.) ?)
JoJo's less detached SM compared to Lauren (a more positive experience for her?)
JoJo's overwhlemingly positive SM, especially abc posts (would she do that if she was blindsided F2? maybe...)
JoJo's "wife" references
Season preview "It's not often in life that you get the opportunity (FD boat embrace w/Caila) to shake things up (LauBen kiss on FD beach). I want to come out of this a better man for my wife" (BenJo fireworks kiss)
Lauren's edit: Will imperfect Ben be ok with Lauren? She admitted she was very picky to Ben. Dad also pointed it out. She seems pretty concerned about how Ben sees her. Why didn't she brush off the Leah stuff? Why wasn't she more confident? Could it be b/c someone called her out on being less than perfect. I see a theme here.  Does she really love Ben, the boy-next-door from Warsaw or is she trying to convince herself? Is it bubble-love? Ben saying mid-way thru he didn't have to question who Lauren was anymore (so maybe he was questioning it?) vs. JoJo, who he is already so comfortable w/ and whom he can be himself with. Is her doubt/challenge believable given how Ben looks at her, does special things for her that he hasn't done for others, etc? I'm not really buying it.)
With so many "blindside" references, does this maybe imply the general audience/majority will be? 
JoJo's Twitter post: Wrigley field pic of her & Ben with caption: "Thank you for making it memorable for US", quickly changed to "me"
JoJo's VO "I will be nervous until he gets down on one knee"

ALL of the above, JMO. ^^^^^

A few weeks back, I posted about conflict resolution as the key to identifying the final one.

In the past, where the contestants' conflicts intersect with the lead's determines the outcome. The lead and the F1 resolve each other's conflicts.

The show has told us that Ben's conflict is "Am I loved back?" In the past, Ben has given more to relationships than he has received. In episode 1, we also heard Ben say, "I want to find the woman that I can say “I love you” and I know that it’s true and that it’s real." This statement, IMO, might explain the gazillion "I love yous:" Ben's testing.

Jo's conflict has been "Can I let myself fall?" She's been hung up on her ex and holding back most of the season. From the cap that we see of Jo saying that she's completely fallen for Ben, it seems like she has overcome her obstacle.

Lauren's conflict has been "Can I trust Ben with my heart?" She's picky, she's a little guarded, but she's been all in really since Jamaica. I imagine that we will see rising action again with Lauren now that we have the "I love you" fiasco in place. If Ben tells Lauren on her FSD about JoJo, or on her LCD, Lauren's trust could be wobbly going into the FRC.

At this point, now, this season is Ben's story (though Jo's telling it!). If we look at the way that Ben and Lauren and Jo resolve the obstacles in their respective relationships, we might know more about the finale. JoJo and Ben have had several roadblocks all along: her ex, her concern about falling again, her brothers, etc. She and Ben do a good job of talking through their challenges. At the same time, we hear Ben tells us things that indicate that he doesn't feel particularly loved: The ex boyfriend's letter and roses trigger an old memory of feeling unwanted/rejected; the brothers make him feel unwelcome. He's uneasy right now with JoJo and a viable future.

With Lauren, he had doubts after Leah. They talked it out, a talk which he told her he needed to have. Ben comments that he feels "accepted and welcomed" with Lauren's family. When the two sets of brothers are juxtaposed, Lauren's brothers make him smirk. Conversation with her sister makes Ben emotional about his feelings for her. At this point, Lauren, IMO, is in the lead to resolve Ben's conflict. She gives him what he needs to feel loved and accepted.

The "I love yous" and the FSDs could change things immensely.

Great job, Agentcurls !
Very helpful, thank you

It certainly makes me think once again that he can go both ways.
It is definitely not absurd to wonder whether Jojo could be F1.
Will the general audience be "blindsided" with Jojo being F1 ?
We'll know pretty soon...

if JoJo does turn out to be the F1 and it was a foiler, Lauren better better be the bachelorette!

veg_out wrote:A few weeks back, I posted about conflict resolution as the key to identifying the final one.

In the past, where the contestants' conflicts intersect with the lead's determines the outcome. The lead and the F1 resolve each other's conflicts.

The show has told us that Ben's conflict is "Am I loved back?" In the past, Ben has given more to relationships than he has received. In episode 1, we also heard Ben say, "I want to find the woman that I can say “I love you” and I know that it’s true and that it’s real." This statement, IMO, might explain the gazillion "I love yous:" Ben's testing.

Jo's conflict has been "Can I let myself fall?" She's been hung up on her ex and holding back most of the season. From the cap that we see of Jo saying that she's completely fallen for Ben, it seems like she has overcome her obstacle.

Lauren's conflict has been "Can I trust Ben with my heart?" She's picky, she's a little guarded, but she's been all in really since Jamaica. I imagine that we will see rising action again with Lauren now that we have the "I love you" fiasco in place. If Ben tells Lauren on her FSD about JoJo, or on her LCD, Lauren's trust could be wobbly going into the FRC.

At this point, now, this season is Ben's story (though Jo's telling it!). If we look at the way that Ben and Lauren and Jo resolve the obstacles in their respective relationships, we might know more about the finale. JoJo and Ben have had several roadblocks all along: her ex, her concern about falling again, her brothers, etc. She and Ben do a good job of talking through their challenges. At the same time, we hear Ben tells us things that indicate that he doesn't feel particularly loved: The ex boyfriend's letter and roses trigger an old memory of feeling unwanted/rejected; the brothers make him feel unwelcome. He's uneasy right now with JoJo and a viable future.

With Lauren, he had doubts after Leah. They talked it out, a talk which he told her he needed to have. Ben comments that he feels "accepted and welcomed" with Lauren's family. When the two sets of brothers are juxtaposed, Lauren's brothers make him smirk. Conversation with her sister makes Ben emotional about his feelings for her. At this point, Lauren, IMO, is in the lead to resolve Ben's conflict. She gives him what he needs to feel loved and accepted.

The "I love yous" and the FSDs could change things immensely.

Wow.

bellehuntley wrote:if JoJo does turn out to be the F1 and it was a foiler, Lauren better better be the bachelorette!

I agree!!

I thought it was strange when Ben told JoJo's brothers on the HTD that he will show how he cares for JoJo by his actions. That's it? Usually the lead says something more substantial about the F2. So odd, BUT I believe Ben will not just show JoJo how he feels, but TELL her how he feels and drop the "L" bomb either by the waterfall or in the fantasy suite. I believe that comment was left in the edit for a reason.