The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

I am leaning towards Lauren being F1 but I definitely see the case for JoJo being F1. Has anyone watched JoJos travel? Ben has been in LA a lot any airport sightings, signs Jojo has been out of town etc?

Lauren is harder as she lives in CA and travels all the time for work.

Fingersandtoes wrote:She said she's guarded or something like that. She had that production planned Leah thing, and it was solved. Her sister will challenge Ben. She's the only one with no real past hang ups IMO.  Have all F1 had some issues to solve?

I've been wondering about this too. I know it's a typical edit point, but did Whitney have an obstacle? I honestly can't remember her needing to overcome anything...she was all in. Did Chris have an obstacle on Des season? Might just be revisionist history on my part but I thought both obstacles were really about the perceived (or actual, perhaps) relationships with the F2/F3 being stronger, not something that the F1 had to overcome but something the lead had to overcome. Anyone remember what those obstacles were?

Tiggerlgh wrote:What is the issue that Lauren has to overcome?  It seems hers have all been resolved much earlier than normal for a F1.  I kind of hope they actually messed with the formula this year but I am not holding my breath.  Jojo is the one with the issue to yet be solved.

I still currently think Lauren is F1 but I think there are some twists to come and he really did like/love his F2 but in different ways.

I have said before and still believe the issue is her trusting that he will pick her out of all the great ladies "on offer", when he made it clear he liked her early (see convo during the GD after their 101). Sh has told us she loves him, but she is the only one TPTB hasnt yet showed saying it to him in any preview. And now we have the doubt from Mollie added in about not letting herself being herself...

allykat wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:She said she's guarded or something like that. She had that production planned Leah thing, and it was solved. Her sister will challenge Ben. She's the only one with no real past hang ups IMO.  Have all F1 had some issues to solve?

I've been wondering about this too. I know it's a typical edit point, but did Whitney have an obstacle? I honestly can't remember her needing to overcome anything...she was all in. Did Chris have an obstacle on Des season? Might just be revisionist history on my part but I thought both obstacles were really about the perceived (or actual, perhaps) relationships with the F2/F3 being stronger, not something that the F1 had to overcome but something the lead had to overcome. Anyone remember what those obstacles were?

To answer your question, not really.
But I think Whitney and Chris were both kind of considered F2s, but became F1's at the 12th hour, IMO.

Hmmm...

Shawn- getting over Kaitlyn doing the nasty with "the other guy."  
Whitney- I don't remember any obstacle. She was all in.
Josh- seemed manufactured, but TPTB played up the jock aspect and Andi thinking it was too good to be true and falling for the same type that never works for her or something. Honestly, there was never a huge obstacle with these two that I remember.
Nikki- also not much of an obstacle. Of all the girls with Juan Pab's, she's the only one that didn't get pissy on him. RS said she was hated, but that never really played out. Post proposal, there was the obstacle of the lack of an ILY from JP, but that didn't play out during the show.
Chris- he was second choice; could Des love him even if he wasn't her infatuation with Brooks?
Catherine- she just wasn't there. I don't think anyone expected her to go far until she hit Sean's radar late in filming. There might have been drama on her hometown? I don't remember. But seriously, not much conflict.
Jef- could he be a dad? Could he surpass her initial infatuation with Arie? Hmmm- also not much conflict, honestly.
Courtney- TONS of conflict. Epic conflict.
JP- also not much conflict. Manufactured getting over Bently stuff, his "insecurities," and the sister drama. All TPTB spin machine, IMO.
Emily- could Brad be a dad? Could Brad compare to Ricky for Emily?
Roberto- was he out of Ali's league and too hot for her? Idk, also felt manufactured.
Vienna- tons of conflict, just tons. Second only to. Courtney Robertson.
Ed- he left her for work; the fantasy suite ED drama (TPTB manufactured), off screen-  the girlfriends, but that was never part of the show.


I guess my consensus, with few exceptions, there really is t much drama for the F1 and if there is, it's manufactured.

Good post! my thoughts...

sosleepy wrote:Hmmm...

Shawn- getting over Kaitlyn doing the nasty with "the other guy."  
Whitney- I don't remember any obstacle. She was all in.

I think her obstacle was Becca ;)

sosleepy wrote:Josh- seemed manufactured, but TPTB played up the jock aspect and Andi thinking it was too good to be true and falling for the same type that never works for her or something. Honestly, there was never a huge obstacle with these two that I remember.
Nikki- also not much of an obstacle. Of all the girls with Juan Pab's, she's the only one that didn't get pissy on him. RS said she was hated, but that never really played out. Post proposal, there was the obstacle of the lack of an ILY from JP, but that didn't play out during the show.
Chris- he was second choice; could Des love him even if he wasn't her infatuation with Brooks?
Catherine- she just wasn't there. I don't think anyone expected her to go far until she hit Sean's radar late in filming. There might have been drama on her hometown? I don't remember. But seriously, not much conflict.

I think the drama with Catherine was about her dad, and then his dad taking her in, but that's not really an obstacle...

sosleepy wrote:Jef- could he be a dad? Could he surpass her initial infatuation with Arie? Hmmm- also not much conflict, honestly.
Courtney- TONS of conflict. Epic conflict.
JP- also not much conflict. Manufactured getting over Bentley stuff, his "insecurities," and the sister drama. All TPTB spin machine, IMO.

And making him look too serious/old/jealous for her + throwing the sister (like Lauren ) to throw doubt and say he wasnt the one for her.

sosleepy wrote:Emily- could Brad be a dad? Could Brad compare to Ricky for Emily?
Roberto- was he out of Ali's league and too hot for her? Idk, also felt manufactured.
Vienna- tons of conflict, just tons. Second only to. Courtney Robertson.
Ed- he left her for work; the fantasy suite ED drama (TPTB manufactured), off screen-  the girlfriends, but that was never part of the show.


I guess my consensus, with few exceptions, there really is t much drama for the F1 and if there is, it's manufactured.

sophienette wrote:Good post! my thoughts...

sosleepy wrote:Hmmm...

Shawn- getting over Kaitlyn doing the nasty with "the other guy."  
Whitney- I don't remember any obstacle. She was all in.

I think her obstacle was Becca ;)

sosleepy wrote:Josh- seemed manufactured, but TPTB played up the jock aspect and Andi thinking it was too good to be true and falling for the same type that never works for her or something. Honestly, there was never a huge obstacle with these two that I remember.
Nikki- also not much of an obstacle. Of all the girls with Juan Pab's, she's the only one that didn't get pissy on him. RS said she was hated, but that never really played out. Post proposal, there was the obstacle of the lack of an ILY from JP, but that didn't play out during the show.
Chris- he was second choice; could Des love him even if he wasn't her infatuation with Brooks?
Catherine- she just wasn't there. I don't think anyone expected her to go far until she hit Sean's radar late in filming. There might have been drama on her hometown? I don't remember. But seriously, not much conflict.

I think the drama with Catherine was about her dad, and then his dad taking her in, but that's not really an obstacle...

sosleepy wrote:Jef- could he be a dad? Could he surpass her initial infatuation with Arie? Hmmm- also not much conflict, honestly.
Courtney- TONS of conflict. Epic conflict.
JP- also not much conflict. Manufactured getting over Bentley stuff, his "insecurities," and the sister drama. All TPTB spin machine, IMO.

And making him look too serious/old/jealous for her + throwing the sister (like Lauren ) to throw doubt and say he wasnt the one for her.

sosleepy wrote:Emily- could Brad be a dad? Could Brad compare to Ricky for Emily?
Roberto- was he out of Ali's league and too hot for her? Idk, also felt manufactured.
Vienna- tons of conflict, just tons. Second only to. Courtney Robertson.
Ed- he left her for work; the fantasy suite ED drama (TPTB manufactured), off screen-  the girlfriends, but that was never part of the show.


I guess my consensus, with few exceptions, there really is t much drama for the F1 and if there is, it's manufactured.

Catherine's sisters told Sean that they didn't think she was ready to settle down and get married.

So, this season it feels like maybe all F4 have a smaller character arc/challenge than the bigger arcs, obstacles, & drama of the past F1-4s.

Lauren- Leah drama: and she's insecure because she doesn't know where she stands against the other women (IMO, this is producer-fed & driven as she doesn't sound/look convincing to me on this one, sorry)
JoJo- getting over past hurts, can she let her guard down and fall in love again? (if she is next Ette, I'm not sure this is all-together honest, either)
Caila- Can she be herself and let her guard down to fall in love? (can there be room to love someone else when she loves herself so much? I kid, I kid. I say good on you, Caila.  You need to love yourself first, girl!)
Amanda- Ben being insta-dad to 2 kids, husband baggage, plus can Ben tell if she is falling in love with him when her face barely moves as she speaks? (kidding!)

agentcurls wrote:So, this season it feels like maybe all F4 have a smaller character arc/challenge than the bigger arcs, obstacles, & drama of the past F1-4s.

Lauren- Leah drama: and she's insecure because she doesn't know where she stands against the other women (IMO, this is producer-fed & driven as she doesn't sound/look convincing to me on this one, sorry)
JoJo- getting over past hurts, can she let her guard down and fall in love again? (if she is next Ette, I'm not sure this is all-together honest, either)
Caila- Can she be herself and let her guard down to fall in love? (can there be room to love someone else when she loves herself so much? I kid, I kid. I say good on you, Caila.  You need to love yourself first, girl!)
Amanda- Ben being insta-dad to 2 kids, husband baggage, plus can Ben tell if she is falling in love with him when her face barely moves as she speaks? (kidding!)

Ben - if he proposes, will they accept?
Kinda a theme running here.

Maybe it's the case that more often than not it's the F2 that has an obstacle to overcome (or not overcome)...

Nick - fall out from early sex
Becca - can she fall
Nick - did he have an obstacle on Andi's season?
Claire - didn't they have a fight about something at some point, maybe about the ocean swim? In any event, I remember them having communication problems a few times (including their LCD). Plus there was the HTD with her sister saying something or being dramatic, IIRC.
Drew/Brooks - I barely remember Drew, but Brooks was obviously were his feelings as strong as hers
Lindsey - I barely remember her too, did she have obstacle?
Arie - Cassie relationship, is he ready to be dad

allykat wrote:Maybe it's the case that more often than not it's the F2 that has an obstacle to overcome (or not overcome)...

Nick - fall out from early sex
Becca - can she fall
Nick - did he have an obstacle on Andi's season?
Claire - didn't they have a fight about something at some point, maybe about the ocean swim? In any event, I remember them having communication problems a few times (including their LCD). Plus there was the HTD with her sister saying something or being dramatic, IIRC.
Drew/Brooks - I barely remember Drew, but Brooks was obviously were his feelings as strong as hers
Lindsey - I barely remember her too, did she have obstacle?
Arie - Cassie relationship, is he ready to be dad

If true it's more likely Jojo is F2 then....can she fall for Ben and really open up? I think that is her big obstacle.

Tiggerlgh wrote:

allykat wrote:Maybe it's the case that more often than not it's the F2 that has an obstacle to overcome (or not overcome)...

Nick - fall out from early sex
Becca - can she fall
Nick - did he have an obstacle on Andi's season?
Claire - didn't they have a fight about something at some point, maybe about the ocean swim? In any event, I remember them having communication problems a few times (including their LCD). Plus there was the HTD with her sister saying something or being dramatic, IIRC.
Drew/Brooks - I barely remember Drew, but Brooks was obviously were his feelings as strong as hers
Lindsey - I barely remember her too, did she have obstacle?
Arie - Cassie relationship, is he ready to be dad

If true it's more likely Jojo is F2 then....can she fall for Ben and really open up?  I think that is her big obstacle.

LaurenB said she was guarded too and unsure of where she stood in relation to the other women. But then said in an ITM that she was falling for the Ben from Warsaw.

JoJo also told Ben that she was ready to let her guard down and fall in love, first explaining why it was hard for her. She also said in an ITM that she wanted to give herself to Ben because when she is with him she feels like she is falling in love.