The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

If anything, IMO, Ben's mother saw the look on Ben's face when he gazes at Lauren and the look on his face when he looks at JoJo and told him only what was obvious. And.... we would never see such a conversation on air (I don't think anyway). Mom also may have encouraged him knowing that he was going to have to disappoint one- publicly and pretty devastatingly. Doubt highly that she made any kind of decision for him. For while been does seem to ready to please people and also appears to be a "compliant child", he does not seem to be a "momma's boy".

jcrbil wrote:If anything, IMO, Ben's mother saw the look on Ben's face when he gazes at Lauren and the look on his face when he looks at JoJo and told him only what was obvious.  And.... we would never see such a conversation on air (I don't think anyway).  Mom also may have encouraged him knowing that he was going to have to disappoint one- publicly and pretty devastatingly.  Doubt highly that she made any kind of decision for him.  For while been does seem to ready to please people and also appears to be a "compliant child", he does not seem to be a "momma's boy".

Yes, this!^^^
Even on the HTD, Ben and Lauren seems to just be solidifying and progressing in  their relationship. Whereas Jojo has to take a holiday or time off  with this Ex-mess.  Even if she tells Ben she's over him, all thesei antics takes time away from truly progressing . They have to talk about the ex again . The writing on the wall is becoming more evident no matter how steamy their makeout sessions look. Imo of course.

What is the issue that Lauren has to overcome? It seems hers have all been resolved much earlier than normal for a F1. I kind of hope they actually messed with the formula this year but I am not holding my breath. Jojo is the one with the issue to yet be solved.

I still currently think Lauren is F1 but I think there are some twists to come and he really did like/love his F2 but in different ways.

She said she's guarded or something like that. She had that production planned Leah thing, and it was solved. Her sister will challenge Ben. She's the only one with no real past hang ups IMO. Have all F1 had some issues to solve?

Tiggerlgh wrote:What is the issue that Lauren has to overcome?  It seems hers have all been resolved much earlier than normal for a F1.  I kind of hope they actually messed with the formula this year but I am not holding my breath.  Jojo is the one with the issue to yet be solved.

I still currently think Lauren is F1 but I think there are some twists to come and he really did like/love his F2 but in different ways.

Yes and I have to think Ben's feelings for Lauren and JoJo aren't really as close as we are being led to believe. They have omitted and therefore hid SO much from this show, IMO more than I ever remember not seeing (including K's). But they couldn't hide how he looks at L and I do compare it to how he looks at J. In fact, J herself sees the difference. If Ben felt as much about JoJo as he does about Lauren, he never would've had his knee up in between them while they were lying in the outfield. 

I think the usual necessary drama "created" by tptb began on the last LiveAfter show with the frankenbited preview and then re-enforced by the leaked US Weekly article from the behind-the-scenes source and the "love for two women" is not what we are led to believe it is. I cannot remember this right now but has Ben himself ever said a congruent, "I was in love with two women."? OR has he only said, "I told two women I loved them."?

I think at some point in his PI confessionals, it will come out as I'm in love with two women. It's semantics . How do you separate saying I'm love with one, and I only love the other In those PI's, Some will say, he said he's in love with both of them . The difference to me is what he tells them personally . If he does tell one I love you, and the other I'm in love with you , there's the difference . He's now showing the separation in his heart and mind imo. I always think about the famous break up line . I love you but I'm not in love with you .

Tiggerlgh wrote:What is the issue that Lauren has to overcome?  It seems hers have all been resolved much earlier than normal for a F1.  I kind of hope they actually messed with the formula this year but I am not holding my breath.  Jojo is the one with the issue to yet be solved.

I still currently think Lauren is F1 but I think there are some twists to come and he really did like/love his F2 but in different ways.

I see Lauren's obstacle with Ben being resolved too soon as well. That's why I think production was all over the opportunity to create the story line around the two ILY's. It not only appeared to close the gap between Lauren and Jojo, but also gives both F1 & F2 an obstacle in a reality where there isn't really one.

I bet the "biggest mistake I made" frankenbite from the promo actually is in reference to that second ILY to JoJo. I genuinely think he cares for her, is attracted to her... And it just came out, unintended. Huge mistake, and I bet he still regrets it how TPTB are spinning it. Once he said it, he needed to find a way for a clean break with JoJo, but maybe more importantly, how to exit this show with Lauren and not hurt her. Second part of that mistake Ben is dealing with now: how to navigate the TPTB manufactured drama around his mistake.

jojo47 wrote:
I see Lauren's obstacle with Ben being resolved too soon as well. That's why I think production was all over the opportunity to create the story line around the two ILY's.  It not only appeared to close the gap between Lauren and Jojo, but also gives both F1 & F2 an obstacle in a reality where there isn't really one.

^ Great post!! 

ETA: another great post sosleepy 

sosleepy wrote:I bet the "biggest mistake I made" frankenbite from the promo actually is in reference to that second ILY to JoJo. I genuinely think he cares for her, is attracted to her... And it just came out, unintended. Huge mistake, and I bet he still regrets it how TPTB are spinning it. Once he said it, he needed to find a way for a clean break with JoJo, but maybe more importantly, how to exit this show with Lauren and not hurt her. Second part of that mistake Ben is dealing with now: how to navigate the TPTB manufactured drama around his mistake.

Very true! The way he said the two ILY's is another thing . It sounds like the first was to validate. The second the confession of his heart if we go by how he expressed it.

agentcurls wrote:Not nay-saying the outcome or spoiler or the undeniable LaurBen chemistry and love story, however...some things to ponder:

How long has it been since we've had a foiler and are we due for one?

You mean that RS telling us Kaitlyn had picked no-one wasnt a foiler ;) ? She ruined it, but until then he was pretty sure! I dont think we're owed one.

agentcurls wrote:
Why does MF say it's his favorite season since Jason Mesnick's? Is it because something very unexpected happens that will shock the audience? Or is it because Ben & Lauren's love story is one for the ages? Or is it simply because he likes to watch nice people suffer immensely? (Ummmmm, yeah.)

Why all the 3/4 of a Mesnick references? What does that mean exactly? (I don't think it's a comellete switcheroo either)

They mean tears, which we should expect with Ben anyway!
Mike and Chris are full of **it... I remember a Chris blog where he pretty much explained why Catherine wasnt right for Sean...

agentcurls wrote:Lauren seems to be telling Ben all he needs to hear and he is falling very hard, but have they built a solid foundation? I don't see the friendship first IN THE EDIT, like several of the other couples like Jason & Molly, Sean & Catherine, Chris & Des, even Ali & Frank (her intended F1). More often than not, F1 is more of a slow-burn than a hot flame. (Admittedly, I didn't watch Ben F, Brad 2.0, JuanPa, Andi, or FarmerChris seasons). Have they switched up this formula? 

I think the formulas are there for editing, drama, etc... how they show the actual relationship still depends on these actual relationships! Not all start with friendship. Plus we know that they cut a lot of serious convo from their first 101...

agentcurls wrote:It's true, we aren't seeing that same magnetic starry-eyed attraction between BenJo as LaurBen, but yet I am still seeing a great romance and a really nice friendship intimacy blossoming between these two. 
He has stated that he feels the most comfortable around her and most like himself. He also said "she makes me FEEL better about myself." 
JoJo has been very nurturing, much like Ben describes Mrs. Higgins. 
Maybe after JoJo lets her guard down, there are surprises in store? 

I guess the question is does he want someone who makes him feel better about himself.. or someone who "changes" him...

agentcurls wrote:After the Chantal & Brooks foilers anything is possible with this franchise. I just remember some posters on here really building the case for Des & Chris and it turns out they were right all along. Im not saying I'm right in any of this, but just putting it out there as I find the Ben & JoJo edit an interesting one. 

I think a lot of posters, me included, like the Ben and Jojo relationship... I just think the one with Lauren is stronger But we keep sleuthing, in case we come across anything that could indicate otherwise.

agentcurls wrote:Some have discussed the possibility of JoJo taking herself out at F3? Has that been done before on The Bachelor? MF would love that and so would all the female empowerment junkies out there. That would leave Caila as the F2 that Ben slips the ILY to & maybe they will make a case for that to occur moving forward? 

But yet still, there a few things that say Lauren is totally IT. He does act differently around Lauren, or at least it seems different in the EDIT. He's done a few special things for Lauren, too (the picture of thier first time together, the walk through Mex City).
And Lauren's SM activity or lack there of (no promos, guarded, detached) make the strongest case for her as F1 other than the spoiler.

Just to note that Lauren was never big on SM before the show

Fantastic Q and A AC and Sophie! Great read!