The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

agentcurls wrote:Why does MF say it's his favorite season since Jason Mesnick's? Is it because something very unexpected happens that will shock the audience? Or is it because Ben & Lauren's love story is one for the ages? Or is it simply because he likes to watch nice people suffer immensely? (Ummmmm, yeah.)

IIRC there were two different statements MF made when Jason's season was airing. One, before it was publicly known that Jason and Melissa had broken up (but it was known by MF) was that he saw a love story and felt there would be a wedding. Everyone thought he was talking about Jason and Melissa (if they were spoiled) but he was really talking about Jason and Molly. The second one was after the ATFR1 and ATFR2 were aired and everyone then knew what happened and that was to the effect that the show had shown all sorts of aspects of dating relationships other than a breakup and this time they were able to show a breakup. IMO he liked that season because they were able to show something they had never been able to show before - a breakup. And yes - he does like to see nice people suffer too.

Lauren seems to be telling Ben all he needs to hear and he is falling very hard, but have they built a solid foundation? I don't see the friendship first IN THE EDIT, like several of the other couples like Jason & Molly, Sean & Catherine, Chris & Des, even Ali & Frank (her intended F1). More often than not, F1 is more of a slow-burn than a hot flame. (Admittedly, I didn't watch Ben F, Brad 2.0, JuanPa, Andi, or FarmerChris seasons). Have they switched up this formula?

 

While I did this looking for something else, I happened to re-watch the Ep3 first date of Ben and Lauren. I found I really didn't remember the discussion they had over dinner Ben asked Lauren "What does life look like for you?" Her answer - she grew up a simple life with a close knit family and would really like to give kids of her own the kind of life she grew up with. She's picky because her Dad is the nicest, kindest most sensitive person and she wants a husband who can be the Dad to them that her Dad was to her.

Ben talked about his father's health issues, seeing his mother's pain over the potential loss of her husband, and how seeing that made Ben realize the depth to which that love exists. And that's the kind of love he's looking for. IMO that's pretty heady stuff. It gave me an appreciation for what Lauren said after seeing Ben with the Baker kids "He's going to make an amazing Dad".

So Lauren wants a close knit family with the nicest kindest most sensitive person as a husband and father to her children. And Ben wants a wife that he can love as deeply and intensely as he perceived his mother's love for his father. I think they are checking each others most important boxes.
JMHO

MVMom39forever wrote:I see Ben and Lauren as being so giddy in love, and it appears to be mutual. The two can't stop smiling around each other. I don't know about the friendship foundation, but does it really matter for the purpose of this show??  The two of them can't keep their hands or lips off each other and that's all Ben is thinking about just as many leads before him.

Whereas I can see Ben earning his Bachelor paycheck, especially with Jo Jo and Caila. It seems like he is tap dancing as fast as he can to get them to fall for him. He is pleading with them and they both are playing coy.

I am really curious to watch  how Jo Jo and Caila progress to dropping the I love you to Ben. In many ways, these next episodes seem more about determining the next Bachelorette then the f1. The body language in last episode seemed forced to me

Just like I never saw Brooks that into Des(and Chris was all in), I just don't see either Caila, Amanda or Jo Jo that into Ben. They may say they are on the couch with other girls or in ITMs. But it's not popping on the screen IMHO. Not yet at least.

ITA, especially the BIB. At this early in the relationship, after a few dates, being smitten and giddy around each other is perfectly normal. Usually there's no angst or being best friends yet. You just looooove being around the other person and get heart eyes.

The thing with Lauren and Ben is, they do show us the obvious physical connection yet, what do you take away from Ben telling Lauren about his dad and his previous health issue? They've spent so much time together from the morsels we've been seeing but what motivates Ben to say, "this girl is special". They hide most of the convos because maybe then it'll be completely obvious with no show to make. I think these two are comfortable with each other and have as easy a flow emotionally as they do physically . They don't take one step forward and three backwards . They progressively move forward. That's just one of the benefits when you don't come on the show laden with an issue/issues that need to be worked through before you move forward. I think.

Out of the F4 girls Lauren is the only one without a past baggage story hanging over her head. IMO you have to have yourself sorted out, over trust issues etc when you come to this show. IMO there just isn't enough time with the lead to get over them AND build a solid start of a new relationship.

Fingersandtoes wrote:Out of the F4 girls Lauren is the only one without a past baggage story hanging over her head. IMO you have to have yourself sorted out, over trust issues etc when you come to this show. IMO there just isn't enough time with the lead to get over them AND build a solid start of a new relationship.

I can think of many leads and final ones and two who do not fit the above bolded.(Jake/Vienna, Brad/Emily, Jef/Emily, Blob, Jesse Palmer, KAITLYN--I could go on and on) I would think most. MF psychologically preys on the weaknesses of the cast to his advantage. Generally, he will take the strengths of past cast and turn them against that same cast person if they come back for another season as the main.

Kashathediva wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:Out of the F4 girls Lauren is the only one without a past baggage story hanging over her head. IMO you have to have yourself sorted out, over trust issues etc when you come to this show. IMO there just isn't enough time with the lead to get over them AND build a solid start of a new relationship.

I can think of many leads and final ones and two who do not fit the above bolded.(Jake/Vienna, Brad/Emily, Jef/Emily, Blob, Jesse Palmer, KAITLYN--I could go on and on) I would think most. MF psychologically preys on the weaknesses of the cast to his advantage. Generally, he will take the strengths of past cast and turn them against that same cast person if they come back for another season as the main.

You're right about the other F1's . And to you point about a past contestant coming back as the lead, ita too. That's why I feel those who might like Jojo now, might not later. I see it happening with Ben although I didn't really watch Kaitlyn's season, but read some things about how great Ben was. When I looked at spoilers, I watched a few episodes to see who this F1 was and was hooked . I hope Ben comes out of this for the better.

Idlemess wrote:Based on social media interest of each girl (Lauren, Jojo, Caila and Amanda) who has the most fan base and best chance of being bachelorette?

Does anyone think they might look/pick from outside of this season or someone new altogether?

IMO, it would be Becca. I kind of think that she's going to be the next bette.

agentcurls wrote:

MVMom39forever wrote:I see Ben and Lauren as being so giddy in love, and it appears to be mutual. The two can't stop smiling around each other. I don't know about the friendship foundation, but does it really matter for the purpose of this show??  The two of them can't keep their hands or lips off each other and that's all Ben is thinking about just as many leads before him.

Whereas I can see Ben earning his Bachelor paycheck, especially with Jo Jo and Caila. It seems like he is tap dancing as fast as he can to get them to fall for him. He is pleading with them and they both are playing coy.

I am really curious to watch  how Jo Jo and Caila progress to dropping the I love you to Ben. In many ways, these next episodes seem more about determining the next Bachelorette then the f1. The body language in last episode seemed forced to me

Just like I never saw Brooks that into Des(and Chris was all in), I just don't see either Caila, Amanda or Jo Jo that into Ben. They may say they are on the couch with other girls or in ITMs. But it's not popping on the screen IMHO. Not yet at least.

I think JoJo def put some brakes on after the pig-swimming date because she saw how LaurBen were connecting.
But prior to that, when you look back at their time in LA, Vegas, & Mex City, JoJo was being quite nurturing and affectionate with Ben. On the helicopter ride especially and during some of their 1-on-1 time during group dates she is running her fingers through his hair, etc. If you're not into BenJo, then you may have missed that.
We'll see how it goes from here. I agree that as the season progressed, Caila & JoJo made it just a little harder for Ben to sail off into the sunset with his cherished Lauren.
though.  

I am barely negating the spoiler. I have a strong tendency to believe it. But I like to analyze the "what ifs" for fun. I guess my imagination may have gotten the best of me because this season pointing straight to Lauren is kind of boring. A real deal love story would be kinda nice, too, in the end.

Yep, I hear you! Having been on Team Nick for Andi's season and Team Chris for Des' season (which are the last two seasons that I really got overly invested), I certainly enjoy pursuing spoilers and foilers. That said, I just think Ben and Lauren are a done deal. I am enjoying watching the love story while at the same time enjoying watching young Ben trying to navigate the lead role. He is just such an earnest little pup.

And, you're right about Jo Jo putting the brakes on her feelings after she realized that Lauren just might be bigger competition than she had expected. But, when you look back, Lauren and Jo Jo were barely together with Ben until ep 6.
- Ep 2 - Lauren did not go on any dates
- Ep 3 - Lauren had 1-on-1 date while Jo Jo group date
- Ep 4 - Lauren got the GDR but Jo Jo was on her 1-on-1 date so did not see it
- Ep 5 - Mexico - cooking date w/Ben paired with Olivia - Jo Jo may have gotten suspicious about Lauren and Ben since they were gone for so long making out on the streets but GDR went to Olivia
- Ep 6 - Bahamas - Jo Jo sees Lauren in action and starts to cool down
- Ep 7 - Wrigley Field - Jo Jo still seemed a bit cool ... slowly opening up

Now that the f4 are dispersed w/out any contact to decipher Ben's feelings (or their competitor's confidence level in Ben's affection or acts of affirmation), I guess the affection that Jo Jo showed to Ben earlier in the season may come back on stronger. But, is it enough to catch up with Lauren and Ben? Idk ... doubt it!

What has me curious is whether I will believe that Ben actually falls "in bubble love" with Jo Jo that motivates him to drop ILY. I am also curious to see how Jo Jo, Caila and I guess to some degree Amanda are portrayed as that will give me clues about next lead. As I wrote elsewhere, I sure as heck don't think they'd be showing all those crying baby scenes if they were trying to recruit men for Amanda's season so I guess it's between Caila and Jo Jo ... with Jo Jo the most likely next candidate.

Does the order of filming the HTD make a difference regarding Ben's preference ? How about the order they play it? Is there a reason Jojo is last ? Is it for the drama they have planned and it's hard to spring that on Ben and then be cheery going to the next HTD?

Jojo's was actually filmed 3rd (nov 1) and Lauren's was filmed last (nov 3) They just chose to show her last...probably so they could tease the drama throughout the entire episode.
*Edit*

The filming order generally makes some kind of logical, geographical order but it does depend on the families' schedules so not always 100% perfect. This year makes some sense with the order being Amanda-Caila-Jojo-Lauren.

I know there are stats here somewhere about the order the HTD air but I don't remember there being a very noticeable pattern.

That makes me oh so happy Lauren was last for so many reasons. They could have even had extra time together . Thank you for the insight and info.