The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - NO SPOILERS - Discussion

MiaHawk wrote:

veg_out wrote:Mia, so proud of you for rocking the unspoiled world. I've done it a few times with different seasons--I've never made it to the end.

The unspoiled view is truly refreshing. This thread is one of my faves on the board.

I've watched this show since season 1, and the best part of it now for me is this board.
I've participated in this board since Emily's season, and the best part of it for me has always been participating in the discussions.
I've tried to go unspoiled before, but the lack of participating in the discussions just wore me down. I gave up and entered the threads and the discussions.
NOT reading the threads and NOT writing in them is a HUGE sacrifice for me. Which is what has drawn me to this unspoiled thread. I'm going cabin-fever in my own head!
I KNOW it's difficult for somebody whose spoiled to come into the unspoiled thread and post. I've tried it in the past and I wasn't very good at it.
So, I thank those who pop in to answer a question or to have a conversation. I appreciate that a lot.

I do have another question: Did the FDs occur in the same order that they were aired: C then L than J? TIA.

Mia
PS VegOut, LOVE your avi! Still cracks me up!

Is it ok to answer it here?

MiaHawk wrote:

PS VegOut, LOVE your avi! Still cracks me up!

Ry Guy will always be my fave. He kept me sane during the Board Wars. Ha! I find it hilarious that Em's husband looks like him!

Looking forward to more of your posts!

pander3575 wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:

veg_out wrote:Mia, so proud of you for rocking the unspoiled world. I've done it a few times with different seasons--I've never made it to the end.

The unspoiled view is truly refreshing. This thread is one of my faves on the board.

I've watched this show since season 1, and the best part of it now for me is this board.
I've participated in this board since Emily's season, and the best part of it for me has always been participating in the discussions.
I've tried to go unspoiled before, but the lack of participating in the discussions just wore me down. I gave up and entered the threads and the discussions.
NOT reading the threads and NOT writing in them is a HUGE sacrifice for me. Which is what has drawn me to this unspoiled thread. I'm going cabin-fever in my own head!
I KNOW it's difficult for somebody whose spoiled to come into the unspoiled thread and post. I've tried it in the past and I wasn't very good at it.
So, I thank those who pop in to answer a question or to have a conversation. I appreciate that a lot.

I do have another question: Did the FDs occur in the same order that they were aired: C then L than J? TIA.

Mia
PS VegOut, LOVE your avi! Still cracks me up!

Is it ok to answer it here?

Ooh, maybe that's a problem...? I guess a moderator should delete the answer if that is against the rules. I didn't think of it as spoiling, but maybe others do? Sorry. Dang, this unspoiled thing is not easy!

Mia, I suppose we could PM you the answer and/or put it in the special spoiler post. However, are you sure you want to know? It's a slippery slope. I know a few of us tried to go spoiler free during Juan Pablo's season and asked a few questions to the spoiled posters. More and more the spoiled info started to leak out in their posts...just something to consider.

The FS dates actually occurred C, JJ then L?

Ok - that changes things - Might have to think on that one for a bit.

As another unspoiled poster I wouldn't want to put any money on the outcome - maybe after LCDs. I thought Lauren was a clear F1 but the ILYs to JoJo has thrown me for a loop.

There has been a discussion in previous posts about the thoughts and feelings of the F2.

IMO - we won't really know what they are until we watch ATFR. Staying unspoiled means that I haven't looked on social media to see what they are portraying.

However, we can't guarantee that the F2 found closure with his IYU at all.

They could have thought what does she have that I don't, what am I missing that he needs... in fact I can think of hundreds questions that could be running through her mind.

I just hope that the F2 gets to express how she feels at ATFR and get some closure - whether it's giving him a good telling off or accepting and understanding his reasons for not picking her.

And you never know.. maybe he picks both and is currently dating the two of them!

You're correct, Katiebelle, in that none of us will really know how the F2 feels until she says it. I am simply putting myself in the place of the F2 (and there's not a proverbial snowball's chance that would ever happen, but I digress).

For me, I think I would rather know and believe the lead had genuine feelings for me, that he wasn't just leading me on. It would be painful regardless, but I think I would feel less humiliated for being dumped on national TV if I knew he genuinely cared and wrestled with his final decision. It is the most abnormal dating situation, and it would be nice to know I wasn't being played by the lead...now being played by TPTB is a whole other story.

The rule is answer a question for information, only if asked by a Non spoiled poster.

Katiebelle wrote:The FS dates actually occurred C, JJ then L?

Ok - that changes things - Might have to think on that one for a bit.

As another unspoiled poster I wouldn't want to put any money on the outcome - maybe after LCDs. I thought Lauren was a clear F1 but the ILYs to JoJo has thrown me for a loop.

There has been a discussion in previous posts about the thoughts and feelings of the F2.

IMO - we won't really know what they are until we watch ATFR. Staying unspoiled means that I haven't looked on social media to see what they are portraying.

However, we can't guarantee that the F2 found closure with his IYU at all.

They could have thought what does she have that I don't, what am I missing that he needs... in fact I can think of hundreds questions that could be running through her mind.

I just hope that the F2 gets to express how she feels at ATFR and get some closure - whether it's giving him a good telling off or accepting and understanding his reasons for not picking her.

And you never know.. maybe he picks both and is currently dating the two of them!

Once you've gathered your thoughts, I'd love to hear how/if that changes things for you!

nothatgirl wrote:

Katiebelle wrote:The FS dates actually occurred C, JJ then L?

Ok - that changes things - Might have to think on that one for a bit.

As another unspoiled poster I wouldn't want to put any money on the outcome - maybe after LCDs. I thought Lauren was a clear F1 but the ILYs to JoJo has thrown me for a loop.

There has been a discussion in previous posts about the thoughts and feelings of the F2.

IMO - we won't really know what they are until we watch ATFR. Staying unspoiled means that I haven't looked on social media to see what they are portraying.

However, we can't guarantee that the F2 found closure with his IYU at all.

They could have thought what does she have that I don't, what am I missing that he needs... in fact I can think of hundreds questions that could be running through her mind.

I just hope that the F2 gets to express how she feels at ATFR and get some closure - whether it's giving him a good telling off or accepting and understanding his reasons for not picking her.

And you never know.. maybe he picks both and is currently dating the two of them!

Once you've gathered your thoughts, I'd love to hear how/if that changes things for you!

Ok my head's still spinning with that bit of news but I've brought in the washing and folded it while having a little muse.

After the HTDs, as much as I like JJ, I thought L was probably the front runner for F1. The way he looks and connects with her, IMO, is pretty intense. Yes there is definitely some infatuation there and "I've got a crush on you" stuff going on but their shared interests, common backgrounds and similar easy going personalities would give them a good start to a successful relationship. And I'm pretty sure he could see that as well.  Also I saw him put JJ more and more into that confidant and friend role.

Which is why I was not overly surprised with his ILY to L and extremely surprised (just look at my posts while I was watching) with his ILY to JJ.

Now that I know that he actually said ILY to JJ first I need to question everything.  Why would they change the order anyway? Who does it benefit?

Maybe there was more romance with JJ than I saw - the TPTB manipulates the edit and thus the story to show what they want us to see. Are they
showing just the best moments with L and the worst moments with JJ?

But whether the TPTB have manipulated the story to push us in a particular direction is a whole other discussion - what you are asking is what I think of Ben saying ILY to JJ first.

When I first read that JJs date was before Ls what popped into my head was how does this affect L. I had thought I was impartial but I've just realised that I am a Lauren fan - although I'd still like to be friends with JoJo - any girl that can rock a unicorn head would be fun to hang out with!

So with my Lauren fan hat on maybe he was unsure of L's feelings for him and once JJ gave him that reassurance... actually, as I'm typing this I've concluded.. I have no clue! Might need to sleep on it or wait until I see them all at LCD. Which is probably why I can't wait for the ATFR so he can explain himself to both girls and me (obviously the most important person   )

What are your thoughts?

Katiebelle, you asked the most important question: WHY would the editors switch the televised order of the FDs? What did the editors gain by switching the order? What aspect of their "story lines" did that support?

IDK, but I have an observation (purely my opinion):

I think we can all agree that Caila's date (first date/first date shown) was strained by her being off her game. This set the bar pretty low for the next 2 dates. IMO.

Lauren's date was all about cuteness. Ben said so much. Cute Lauren, cute turtles, cute turtle guy. As a viewer the date made me smile. Who could resist smiling when you saw all those baby turtles? It was a good date. A happy date. But not a very intimate or passionate date, IMO, from what was aired. I was left thinking that it went well up through dinner, and then we got hit by the ILYs and the giggly glee that followed. Glee. Giggles. Pecks. Not much more.

Contrast that with Jojo's date. We had natural beauty and frolicking in the water (enough to make me smile). Then we quickly moved onto the talking and the ILYs. And Whammo-Kablammo we got some fireworks. Fireworks in the water. Fireworks at dinner. Fireworks in the FS. He couldn't keep his hands or lips off of her. If they had aired Jojo's date 2nd (as it occurred) then I say that Lauren's date would have felt like more of a dud. Lauren's date seemed so good because it aired before Jojo's. The cuteness and the turtles seemed good, but when I rewatched it I really noticed the body language. Ben and Lauren were physically separated and apart most of that date. Compared to Jojo, who he was constantly touching, rubbing, embracing, kissing.

Now, I've said before that in many seasons the "hot chemistry" contestants have gotten eliminated. Many with the awesome kissing skills have gotten the kiss-off. In my opinion, Jojo is the hotter chemistry contestant this go around. She's not guaranteed F1 because of chemistry alone, but I think she has that going for her in addition to many other things as well. I just think they switched the order of the dates because of the chemistry.

veg_out wrote:Mia, so proud of you for rocking the unspoiled world. I've done it a few times with different seasons--I've never made it to the end.

The unspoiled view is truly refreshing. This thread is one of my faves on the board.

Hi, @maggenzm

HI, Veg, it is very nice here in the unspoilled thread.

enjoying the unspoiled thread!

I wonder how others think -- the ben we saw in these two dates was very diff

In jojo's date he seemed present, happy, free, able to talk to difficult subjects without dwelling or having a cloud over his head.

to me watching his date with lauren - all those things ^ and his freedom of being wasn't there. he seemed a bit more 'down' emotional, quiet and not as freely affectionate.

i'm not sure how that will change with his dates with the two women in LCD etc. but for now it looks to me like this 2 person ilu is affecting him....

p.s esp if we stick to the  premise the he deeply cared for both women and would be concerned about their emotional wellbeing