Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #7

ironcat wrote:I don't know, I think if the producers were still considering Nick for the lead, CH wouldn't have made that comment recommending that Nick find love elsewhere.  CH is very media savvy, as well as being the show's biggest cheerleader for how the process "works", and he has now pretty much stated that it doesn't work for Nick, so it sounds like it's a done deal for Ben H.

^^^ That's pretty much my own feelings as well. CH certainly doesn't have the final say but IMO he has a say. I also believe perhaps more importantly than his say is that he's a part of the discussions so while he not only has his own opinions he also knows what the other producers are saying and IMO would not make a statement like he made if he knew Nick was in strong contention. To say he doesn't think the process works for Nick and have the show decide that it does would be embarrassing to him and he doesn't like to embarrass himself - nor would the show want him to embarrass himself.

IMO CH hasn't said anything new, before the finale he gave an interview which should be in the episode thread that both SHawn and Nick will not necessarily make a good bachelor. I think for me these two are too real and too raw with their emotions to fake it for the cameras and we know the leads have to lead people on.

mysthelma wrote:IMO CH hasn't said anything new, before the finale he gave an interview which should be in the episode thread that both SHawn and Nick will not necessarily make a good bachelor. I think for me these two are too real and too raw with their emotions to fake it for the cameras and we know the leads have to lead people on.

While what you have said here is most certainly true, I also think that Nick knows the insides of the show very well. Being an intelligent man, he knows what it would take to be the lead.  

However, I don't think that the Bachelor must lead anyone on to be successful in the end.  I fully believe that a lead can "fall in love" with more than one person and still come out of the experience with just one woman.  IMO, Nick would be a person that would likely have this experience given that he is not looking to fall in love with one specific type of woman.  He is rather looking for character traits that many women might possess.  This would make it easier to actually have feelings of love for more than one woman at a time and be completely torn about his decision in the end.  

I do see him being very real about this and not down playing his actual feelings towards both women.  I do not see him rewriting history to say, like Andi and Kaitlyn with Josh and Shawn, that his F1 was always "the one".  I see him fully owning his feelings and actions and giving the F2 the truth in a compassionate and real way.  I see him recognizing and affirming how difficult "the process" is, but still giving the women emotionally involved the honest truth about his feelings.  This is what would make the show not to be missed for me.  The reality of the show.  JMO obviously.

mysthelma wrote:CH is back peddling all the time, he is never consistent. So K and S won't survive should she do dwts according to him. Meh I don't even trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

Nick is sincere about finding love but based on CH TB is not the right place for him to find love. Thanks CH for confirming that your show is a scam and it's not about love but drama and ratings

By the same token, I dont think Nickie is sincere about finding love and dont trust anything coming out of his mouth either. jmo

seton wrote:

mysthelma wrote:CH is back peddling all the time, he is never consistent. So K and S won't survive should she do dwts according to him. Meh I don't even trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

Nick is sincere about finding love but based on CH TB is not the right place for him to find love. Thanks CH for confirming that your show is a scam and it's not about love but drama and ratings

By the same token, I dont think Nickie is sincere about finding love and dont trust anything coming out of his mouth either. jmo

If everything that US Weekly is reporting is accurate than neither is Ben. If he is willing to forgo a promotion just to be TB, it doesn't say much about his intentions either. With the success rate of this show, I think most aren't there for love.

rosesrREd wrote:

seton wrote:

mysthelma wrote:CH is back peddling all the time, he is never consistent. So K and S won't survive should she do dwts according to him. Meh I don't even trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

Nick is sincere about finding love but based on CH TB is not the right place for him to find love. Thanks CH for confirming that your show is a scam and it's not about love but drama and ratings

By the same token, I dont think Nickie is sincere about finding love and dont trust anything coming out of his mouth either. jmo

If everything that US Weekly is reporting is accurate than neither is Ben.  If he is willing to forgo a promotion just to be TB, it doesn't say much about his intentions either.  With the success rate of this show, I think most aren't there for love.

I guess it's all a question of how you want to interpret it (and whatever preconceived notions you have about these people that you want to reinforce), but turning down a promotion for the chance to focus on finding love could actually be viewed as an indication that a relationship is more important than a job to him.  Although it was BS, wasn't that how they sold Ali's season?  I suspect that was how the situation was  supposed to be interpreted in this article as well, as a sign of greater sincerity, not less on Ben's part.  And if there's even any truth to it, which I doubt, perhaps the "promotion" involved relocation or something else that was unappealing to Ben?

Personally, I find Ben and Nick to be about equally sincere in their intentions, and moreso than several of the past choices of Bachelor.

seton wrote:

mysthelma wrote:CH is back peddling all the time, he is never consistent. So K and S won't survive should she do dwts according to him. Meh I don't even trust anything that comes out of his mouth.

Nick is sincere about finding love but based on CH TB is not the right place for him to find love. Thanks CH for confirming that your show is a scam and it's not about love but drama and ratings

By the same token, I dont think Nickie is sincere about finding love and dont trust anything coming out of his mouth either. jmo

By the same token, I don't think any of the other options for lead are sincere about love and don't trust anything coming out of their mouths either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

This is a tv show. They all do it for fame. Some are just more transparent about it, which in Nick's case I actually respect far more than those who put on a good show and say what is right/correct just for the gig.

Yes, it is a TV show.  But, tell it to Sean, Des, Ashley, Jason and Trista.  Maybe they like fame, but I think they like their spouses more than the gig.  I really believe that.  And, I think Ben is a pretty sincere dude.  I could be wrong, though.

Doesn't mean Nick could've found his love on the show either.  But, I don't want to see him anymore on my TV.  I am so tired of him on a public stage.  JMOAA.

I don't think Nick really cares. I think he finds it amusing that people will interpret his words to mean he does when his actions show he doesn't. If Nick really cared about being TB, and knowing how TPTB choose this person as a blank slate without much controversy, Nick would never have had sex with K, and he would have been someone else completely on the show.

IMO, Nick cares more about just being himself rather than fitting into an image for the sake of anyone else. For that, I respect him. He lives to make waves, not ripples.

I think Nick is fully aware that TPTB and the viewers prior to a season when wanting a lead, prefer the blank slate-not-making-waves type -- everyone is aware of this so if he wanted it that badly he would have behaved more like a blank slate. If anything, I am sure Nick is well aware of everything going on and playing along just like he is one of the producers. He gets to be himself and not "pigeon holed" as he said and still get something out of it.

Again... Nick makes waves not ripples (his words) show me that he would seriously want to be the lead but only if TPTB (and even the public) wanted someone like that. Everything he has done shows he is not going to compromise on his live loud love hard motto - which is quite the opposite of this show and I am sure no surprise that safe is where it will always be at until it changes. I just don't think that change will come on a show that is as inauthentic as TB.

I'm glad you respect him AAL. I don't.

Nick IMO is the ultimate . I think he's absolutely loving all of this.

I don't think it was always his plan to be the Bachelor initially, can't remember when I started getting the desperate vibe from him. Maybe towards the end of the season airing? When he started revamping his image and his SM behaviour changed.

alwaystulips wrote:I'm glad you respect him AAL.  I don't.  

I respect anyone that isn't fake. And imo, Nick isn't fake as I am sure he would act totally different if he was. I doubt he is desperate to be TB. It takes a blank slate to be the best candidate and Nick does the opposite of that. He may be desperate about a lot of things but it's common knowledge that polarizing and controversial is not what the lead is about. If he wanted it that bad he would be a different person.

Again, to me that Nick is still talked about and discussed so much especially by those who dislike him only shows me people are compelled to do so for some reason. Josh M, and others included.

Like Nick said, the opposite of love is not h@te it is indifference. That Nick's threads keep hopping and he still is in the media only proves that when it comes to Nick, love him or dislike him, few are indifferent to him.