Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

bleuberry wrote:When the f2 goes out of their way to be so vindictive and cunning, it opens the door for people to hate him. He isn't just your ordinary f2. He's bitter and angry IMO, and refuses to be dumped without a fight. Next week will be interesting.

I clearly won't be changing any minds I'm sure, I think we've all pretty much settled into our opinion of him. 

I much appreciate this opinion Bleu. And I agree with you or at least I can grasp on... why.

The bolded part is why I like him ...

I've never seen Nick bitter, angry a bit, vindictive ... at ATFR ... most likely, cunning ... not so much in my eyes ... but the fact that he refused to walk out without a solid fight (since I never really believed he was fighting to be "taken back") ... that to me was admirable.

TPTB created the environment in which Nick was supposed to end up as a loser ... for the lead he was just one of the many, who signed up for just what he got, so he had no right to be offended, disappointed or hurt ... his "end" was scripted ... and the fact that Nick figuratively "stood up", declaring his disappointment, showing that her words offended him and her actions hurt him ... he fought for the exit on his own terms.

He didn't come out unscratched, he got so much more heat with "classless" move ... IMO, even more evidently showing that he isn't as conniving/manipulative as everybody wants him to be ... since if he wanted to get out as a "better man" he would know how to persuade and turn the words around to not get criticized and despised ... but he was direct with his intention ... then again ... still reading a year after the fact that HE was shaming her, maybe not direct enough.

I hope Nick does do himself a service and stay classy at the ATFR. I think he will have learned from the outrage last year but I am not completely sure yet. I worry over his favoring of anti-Shawn tweets over the last 2 days and continuing to follow K and fav her posts on SM might be something more than it appears. Either he's showing he's the better person and capable of moving past things, or something else is brewing for the ATFR.

peggy0221 wrote:For the record, I respect all non Nick fans, I understand where you do guys come from, and he did things in some controversial ways, I get that. 

But somehow it amazed me how people hate Nick for being different. We all deal with heartbreak differently, maybe 99% of people would just leave it behind and move on, but I think I'm with Nick on that 1% that, we need answers, we need to know what did we take/do wrong. It's just the way we are.

But does that mean we can't accept breakup? No, we just want to know what went wrong, what did we miss. After a proper closure, we learn the lessons, we know more about ourselves, we will then move on happily.

I think Nick may have taken the last experience with MeAndi like what he does IRL, and he forgot this is a a tv show, so he wanted a real closure. Doesn't mean he thought he is better than Josh, it's just the reflective nature of people like us.

We all deal with breakups differently and I totally get that.  But I think Nick forgets that there is someone else in the picture that she could have strong feelings for.  He gets too over confident  which he has admitted himself.  That is his where the problem comes in because you just don't know how she is really feeling about that other person.  Not choosing him should tell him everything he needs to know.  There is nothing that he could have done or said that could of changed anything.  In the end her heart belonged to someone else.  End of story.

I understand how people don't like Nick from last year's ATFR, but he may act differently this year. Yes, I hope he will stay classy and  be kind. However, after their friendship before filming, having sex with him, possibly more than once, saying ILY to him, I think Nick has every right to ask her WHY? I don't think "refused to be dumped without a fight" is necessarily a bad thing.  We all want Nick to move on, but how can you move on without knowing why? without knowing what I did wrong? Getting a closure is a step towards moving on, IMO. I do hope Kaitlyn will give him that.
As for fame seeking, I remember one beloved bachelor was on reality tv three times consecutively and even wrote a book about his journey. At least, Nick hasn't wrote a book or has a website devoted to his experience. (OOPS, did I just give him the idea to stay relevant after next week?)

nannymargie wrote:We all deal with breakups differently and I totally get that.  But I think Nick forgets that there is someone else in the picture that she could have strong feelings for.  He gets too over confident  which he has admitted himself.  That is his where the problem comes in because you just don't know how she is really feeling about that other person.  Not choosing him should tell him everything he needs to know.  There is nothing that he could have done or said that could of changed anything.  In the end her heart belonged to someone else.  End of story.

ITA :Nod: In that sense, I've written before, why I do see Nick being self-absorbed at times ... he was only viewing/considering his relationship with the Bette and excluding her F1 from his final declarations, forgetting the effect his words might have on him and that he was hurting someone else, who wasn't responsible for Bette's decisions. That was indeed unnecessary/unfortunate harm done to F1 (and his family).
This time around Nick has no respect for F1, by his own admission ... he doesn't hate F1, he does not respect him ... complete different situation than last year ... so I am anxious about the ATFR ... and what Nick may have in store for us.

sdmom wrote:I understand how people don't like Nick from last year's ATFR, but he may act differently this year. Yes, I hope he will stay classy and  be kind. However, after their friendship before filming, having sex with him, possibly more than once, saying ILY to him, I think Nick has every right to ask her WHY? I don't think "refused to be dumped without a fight" is necessarily a bad thing.  We all want Nick to move on, but how can you move on without knowing why? without knowing what I did wrong? Getting a closure is a step towards moving on, IMO. I do hope Kaitlyn will give him that.
As for fame seeking, I remember one beloved bachelor was on reality tv three times consecutively and even wrote a book about his journey. At least, Nick hasn't wrote a book or has a website devoted to his experience. (OOPS, did I just give him the idea to stay relevant after next week?)

I agree that Nick not only will act different this year... He is already acting different this year.  Much more confident and comfortable in his own skin.  Willing to speak his opinion but able to consider the views of others.  Anytime he has been confronted with those opposing him, (the couch of guys when he joined, Josh, Shawn and even SM h*ters) he has approached the situation with the right attitude.  He has tried to hear the other person's interpretation of the situation, calmly answer questions and address concerns, reaffirm the other person's contribution to the conversation and find a solution that appeases both.  

Some situations he was more successful... Some less.  But IMO that is not a reflection of Nick, but rather of the opposing party.  For example, in the case of his "discussions" with Shawn, he tried to approach them as above, but Shawn was unwilling to have a normal conversation with Nick.  What was Nick's response? To attack Shawn in the same manner that he had just been attacked?  Nope.  It was to back away and avoid further confrontation.  Nick is a realist.  He can see when a conversation is not going to be productive.  So he backs off and puts his attention back on the right thing... His relationship with Kaitlyn.

I can only imagine that he will approach the ATFR the same way.  At this point, it is useless to try to get anything of value from talking with Kaitlyn or Shawn regarding answers or resolution.  It is a thing of the past and questioning them will get him no where.  It would be pointless.  I think that he sees this and knows that a confrontation with them will only seek to harden the h*ting viewers hearts towards him more and possibly turn a fan's heart away.

Ya know, Andi was such a major b*tch, I'm glad that Nick said what was on his mind, and asked the questions he did. She deserved that and more imo. Same with Kaitlyn. I wish the men at the tell all would have put her on blast, they all deserved better than what they got with her as the lead, and had every right to question her conduct on the show. jmo

Let me get this straight. Nick and Kait developed a flirtatious friendship, she asks him to come on her season if she's chosen as the B'ette. She's giddy as all get out when he arrives. He gets the next 1/1, she sleeps with him, he falls for her, she takes him all the way to the FRC, let's him propose. And he's vindictive, manipulative and ruined her love story with Shawn? He deserves to be crushed!

If anyone ruined Shawn and Kait's love story it was Kait. Same for Andi, Nick didn't ruin their relationship.

What did Nick think was going to happen? Maybe he should rely on actual chemistry beyond sex instead of having his hands up her shorts each time he's with her. Is he surprised that his moves didn't win it for him again? I get that he picks up girls at bars rather easily in Chicago, but this is not his home turf, he really is as self absorbed as they say. Only thing different is that this year he incorporated tears.

Shawn and Kait's love story isn't without it's bumps, and I've said a billion times that I blame her for that.

I don't even see a love story here. I see two people who deserve one another, and I can't wait until the day they both ride off into the sunset never to be heard from again.

Bet2Win wrote:Let me get this straight.  Nick and Kait developed a flirtatious friendship, she asks him to come on her season if she's chosen as the B'ette.  She's giddy as all get out when he arrives.  He gets the next 1/1, she sleeps with him, he falls for her, she takes him all the way to the FRC, let's him propose.  And he's vindictive, manipulative and ruined her love story with Shawn?   He deserves to be crushed!  

If anyone ruined Shawn and Kait's love story it was Kait.  Same for Andi, Nick didn't ruin their relationship.  

Well, don't you know she was joking when she asked him to come on her season? She said she was nervous when she got giddy? It's all Nick's fault!!! Everything is his fault!! How dare he to question her?? Did Nick not know she is the bacheloette and it's her journey???

(Do I need ?)

I thought she actually chemistry with both and not just physical chemistry.  Although, I tend to think Kait could probably find physical chemistry with a paper bag, while she's living in the moment.    

If she hadn't wanted his hands up her shorts, then they wouldn't have been.  She has no problem standing her ground and saying no, when she wants to.

But I wholeheartedly agree... she is to blame for the bumps in her relationship with Shawn.