Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

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@Nibbles22 wrote:
At the same time, Kaitlyn herself said that the ending was refreshing, but again, she might have been saying that based on the no pick spoiler that was out at the time.  I just wondered if there was more to this whole thing than the second spoiler that RS got. You could be right, that Nick had no idea she ended up with Shawn until the snapchat came out.  I really hate the thought that she is just going to dump Nick after getting down on one knee to propose.  I'm sure he didn't see that one coming!   Guess we'll find out soon enough. hmmm

@Lucas15 wrote: Kaitlyn had said the ending was "refreshing" and that "it ended the way it should" before snapchat gave away the real ending and IMO those two comments were supportive of the foiled ending that she rejected both proposals at the FRC and was single. Who exactly the show wanted fooled by the initial spoiler is probably impossible to determine - whether it was just RS or whether it was RS and Nick and everyone else may be something we'll never know for certain.

I personally think it's noteworthy that the "second" spoiler that RS got was only after snapchat proved the first spoiler wrong and that forced him to go back to his sources. When he did he found that his original source believed the original information but that source had been lied to and believed the lie. Had snapchat not proved the original spoiler wrong we could all be still expecting an ending that both proposals were rejected and that Kaitlyn left single. Perhaps Nick would also believe this today.

@AllAboutLove wrote:
Imo, a couple of things helped Nick this time to move on quicker even if sad initially:

He's been through this before and was realistic that it may not work out although hopeful it would.
Nick not being on the show from start so not in the bubble the whole time but only half the time of the show.
Relationship started before the show may have allowed him to not question if it was just bubble or not and thus real that it was the end so no point fixating on it.
He also was able to be on SM while filming so his tweets to his family/friends undoubtedly were a way for him to have some contact with the outside world while on the show (so one leg still rooted in reality) which was something only Nick had and thus he was the only one not totally in the bubble while on the show - even Kaitlyn was fully in the bubble.
Picking out a ring and getting rejected much more final an ending this time around in letting him no he is not the one.
Defend/support mode of Kaitlyn/sexgate rather than depressed focused since this season sooo much drama!
Watching 4 weeks he wasn't on show so seeing Kaitlyn with Shawn for the 4 weeks when he wasn't on the show Nick got to have 4 weeks just observing K's connection with her F1 which he never saw in person since he arrived 1/2 way through.
Has more more support with Sharleen and her fiance, his family, his friends, etc,. Ali & Jaclyn tweeting in support.
Tweeted airplane emoji's to show he was traveling to NYC so not a SHV, so letting it be known he was going to spend time and that time was with Sharleen and her fiance. So back to the same people who were there at the beginning of his journey in NYC. And I think Sharleen and her fiance were/are his biggest support and helped/helping him get his dork/smile back big time!
Following his own breakup advice = not dwelling on the past or reasons why, staying positive, taking time for himself, not being alone but spending time with people/family/friends.

So a combination of these things are jmo on why I think Nick is happy now.

@SueST wrote: Great points AAL.
Someone also mentioned that Nick has gotten counseling since last season. Either way, his fresh approach this season - wanting to find someone that wants him first/ most may be helping him to see the light. It’s one thing to give it all, overcome obstacles, climb mountains for someone that wants you, it’s another if someone doesn’t….

Lucas,
your prior post got locked, but just wanted to say good point about K blogging that she felt like herself and could see herself golfing with Shawn in 40 years!

I brought that post over--hope it is the correct one.

Lucas15

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Kaitlyn is the Kaitlyn I really liked last season when she is with Nick, spunky, normal and fun. However if the real Kaitlyn is the one that comes out when with Shawn (fickle, immature, cowering) then I will agree that my initial Kaitlyn/Nick projections of being perfect for each other were/are wrong.

IMO it's hard to get a real sense of how someone is when all we see is minutes of footage out of hours actually shot - we see only what the editors choose to show us so our view is skewed by the edit. IMO we do feel differently about ourselves depending on who we are with and one measure of the "right fit" for us could be if we like the "self" we see when with a particular person. In terms of her relationship it's not at all important to Kaitlyn how we feel about the person she is with someone - it's how Kaitlyn feels about herself when she is with someone. That's why I thought this from Kaitlyn's Epsideo 9 Blog about her FD with Shawn interesting:

Kaitlyn wrote:That was one of my favorite days. I definitely felt like myself with Shawn, and I really loved the idea of golfing with him for the next 40 years.

We may not be seeing enough to make a good judgement but if Kaitlyn feels herself with Shawn that's what's important to her - not how we feel.

Is there a rumor of a closed ATFR set or just speculations?

I think this was a speculation that started here and sort of grew legs to the point that many were believing it was a closed set or taped in advance. But this ABC Preview for the MTA released yesterday on Twitter talks about a live finale, so if the finale is live then IMO the ATFR will also be live so likely the board speculation is wrong.

Kashathediva wrote:I brought that post over--hope it is the correct one.

Thanks Kasha - I think that is the correct one.

Nick got a big NO. It wasn't a maybe or I'm confused ... he (most likely) got a "I'm sorry, I can't, I don't feel it's right, I don't feel the same way, I love you but I'm not in-love with you to want to be with you and be your wife" ... or something along those lines ... so I don't see, how he would ever consider "an open window" until the snapchat.

So I don't read his tweets and his SM support as "still wanting Kaitlyn". I view them as his explanation and support for the actions he took and they took together (before and during the show filming). I view them as his "proclamation of love" for a person who changed the course of his life. As a person who is dear to you, because they represent very influential part of your journey, but nothing more. His support came at the time when Kaitlyn's and his SM pages were most heavily hit with the negativity and bully-comments. He didn't stop with the snapchat, only that once the "acclaimed scene" was shown, he didn't have much to add. His last post about "keep talking about sex and keep calm" was his commentary after a month of media-coverage about his announced entry, coming back, last year shaming (since they still accuse him of that) and the "inappropriate" deed itself.

Last year (sorry to bring it up again) he watched the show and together with us, I presume, he was witnessing that great chemistry he and the Bette had ... even his edit was very peculiar that year ... he got the mental chemistry, in-depth connection scenes, while F1 guy got the physical chemistry (which is usual F2 edit) ... so TPTB made sure to showcase that "intense love story" ... and Nick was holding on to that ... even though I don't agree that he had hopes of Andi changing her mind. He was just convinced, that he was right, that they had something great between them and wanted her to acknowledge that. IMO

This time Nick's edit is "just about the essential" (sex) and there's nothing holding him back.

The difference is: Kaitlyn had probably acknowledged how much he meant to her - since she let him propose, that speaks something to him - and I believe that has given him the peace - one thing that he couldn't get with non-closure last time - that he gave it all and it wasn't IT, but most importantly, that there was something special between them and that he didn't only imagined it. Since previously, the loss was on him for imagining things that weren't real. IMHO

So I find his "positive spirit" post-show according to circumstances the right amount of optimism.

Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

Yeah I'd imagine it would be a relief not to have to pretend. Poor Brooks always looked depressed when the rumor was that he was F1.

Lucas15 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I brought that post over--hope it is the correct one.

Thanks Kasha - I think that is the correct one.

Thanks and yup!

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

I think you have it right Monica!!

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

I think he knew too - I can't imagine Nick not asking or Kaitlyn not saying something about Shawn at the rejection. Nick asked Andi if this was about somebody else, when he was rejected, so I would think he would ask again this time.

My theory is still that Nick moved on romantically post-show and that is why Kaitlyn is so angry with him, but Nick doesn't seem to have any anger toward her and seems apologetic about his drama with Shawn. If they had gotten into a fight about Kaitlyn leading him on and/or Shawn being bad for her, I feel like Nick wouldn't be so supportive in his tweets.

chasingpavements wrote:

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

I think he knew too - I can't imagine Nick not asking or Kaitlyn not saying something about Shawn at the rejection. Nick asked Andi if this was about somebody else, when he was rejected, so I would think he would ask again this time.

My theory is still that Nick moved on romantically post-show and that is why Kaitlyn is so angry with him, but Nick doesn't seem to have any anger toward her and seems apologetic about his drama with Shawn. If they had gotten into a fight about Kaitlyn leading him on and/or Shawn being bad for her, I feel like Nick wouldn't be so supportive in his tweets.

IA, CP. Nick has been very supportive. And amazingly apologetic about the drama with Shawn, which is more than I can say for the other guy.
He's said he wants to be with someone that wants him. His actions support this.