Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

Lucas15 wrote:snipped

Once again Ironcat you are posting those little things that I question also.

I've also thought that Kaitlyn's "free spirit" attitude toward sex and Nick's might not be on the same page IF I believe Nick's attitude is what he expressed best in the Patheos blog of Sean's. But to be honest, my flags went off on that article. Born of the old Mars / Venus adage (which I'm not certain is 100% true) that men will give love to get sex and women will give sex to get love, many men will use a line like "I'm so in love with you I want to make love with you to share our love" simply as a way of getting sex from a woman and "love" has nothing to do with it. Men learn this when they take the class "How to get women to put out 101" that seems to be "taught" in every "man talk" starting at puberty.

I'm genuinely sorry if my cynicism here offends as that is absolutely not my intent - which is only to point out a possible reality.

IMO Snapchatgate answers some questions and raises many others and I am equally curious to see them play out and see if we actually get those answers.

Just to clarify, Nick never said that all sex had to be in the act of love. He said that he thought Andi loved him and that was what that sex meant. Reread the post if you don't remember. I think he and Kaitlyn could have very passionate sex that is just that sex, if they knew they were not in love. People do it all the time. I have done it myself. I don't want to go over last year and that whole AFTR again because no one will ever change their mind now. But to say for him to have casual it isn't love sex is hypocritical is wrong. Just as long as both people are on the same page sex can be many wonderful and different things. It is when both people are not on the same page that it would be good for the person in power to show some compassion to the person not in power.

Nick is also older and has experienced this game before, I doubt he will feel blindsided by anything this time and like her or not Kaitlyn is not going to have a hard time being blunt and telling someone how she feels.

To quote Nick, he stated "I don't know why you'd make love to me if you weren't in love with me" and IMO, that's a pretty clear statement. With that statement, he's stating sex is about love. I don't care much about what he said after the fact. He went on about the importance of sex and what it means to him, how this show dragged him and his family through the mud, stated how he was moving on completely from the show and moving on with his life, but yet he had zero issue messaging Kaitlyn on social media and hopping on the latest bachelorette season. I can't forget to mention that he more than likely had no issue ripping off his capris and getting it on with the latest lead of this show.

Since both Nick and Andi stated she never told him he was the one or that she was in love with him, man, I wonder how Nick feels knowing Kaitlyn spoke with him months before she met him, had sex with him, brought him to the F2, supposedly let him propose, and then dumped him. And nick thought Andi was bad

Even if the sex was just about passion for the two of them and Nick knew it and knew that Kaitlyn didn't love him, then it's ridiculous that he continued on the show. Although, I tend to think he loves the attention - whether good or bad so I don't think it matters to him.

Ash2214 wrote:^ To quote Nick, he stated "I don't know why you'd make love to me if you weren't in love with me" and IMO, that's a pretty clear statement. He went on about the importance of sex and what it means to him, how this show dragged him and his family through the mud, stated how he was moving on completely from the show and moving on with his life, but yet he had zero issue messaging Kaitlyn on social media and hopping on the latest bachelorette season. I can't forget to mention that he more than likely had no issue ripping off his capris and getting it on with the latest lead of this show.

Since both Nick and Andi stated she never told him he was the one or that she was in love with him, man, I wonder how Nick feels knowing Kaitlyn spoke with him months before she met him, had sex with him, brought him to the F2, supposedly let him propose, and then dumped him. And nick thought Andi was bad

Even if the sex was just about passion for the two of them and Nick knew it and knew that Kaitlyn didn't love him, then it's ridiculous that he continued on the show. Although, I tend to think he loves the attention - whether good or bad so I don't think it matters to him.

Nick knew what he was getting into this time. No illusions of what could happen. I don't expect to change any of your minds. But he has never, ever said that all sex had to be in love. So therefore having sex without love doesn't make him a hypocrite, IMO.

Of course he likes attention. You don't go on the bachelor/bachelorette unless you like attention. Not many true introverts in bachelor nation. He did it twice, so yeah, I would say he is pretty okay with attention. He doesn't seek it out 24/7/365 like some people. That is okay too.

Ash2214 wrote:To quote Nick, he stated "I don't know why you'd make love to me if you weren't in love with me" and IMO, that's a pretty clear statement. With that statement, he's stating sex is about love. I don't care much about what he said after the fact. He went on about the importance of sex and what it means to him, how this show dragged him and his family through the mud, stated how he was moving on completely from the show and moving on with his life, but yet he had zero issue messaging Kaitlyn on social media and hopping on the latest bachelorette season. I can't forget to mention that he more than likely had no issue ripping off his capris and getting it on with the latest lead of this show.

Since both Nick and Andi stated she never told him he was the one or that she was in love with him, man, I wonder how Nick feels knowing Kaitlyn spoke with him months before she met him, had sex with him, brought him to the F2, supposedly let him propose, and then dumped him. And nick thought Andi was bad

Even if the sex was just about passion for the two of them and Nick knew it and knew that Kaitlyn didn't love him, then it's ridiculous that he continued on the show. Although, I tend to think he loves the attention - whether good or bad so I don't think it matters to him.

Can you tell me where he stated that? Thanks.

Ash, please!!!! It is manpris, get it right, girl!!

Alanna wrote:Ash, please!!!! It is manpris, get it right, girl!!

I love Nick and I hated the manpris. I hope if he finds the right woman, she burns them and never lets him think about putting anything like that on ever again.

This thread is locked, until I decide what to do.

Going forward, any posts that are not related to the topic will be deleted, in all threads across the forum. For Season 11, discussions are limited to the topic title and the contestants on the show. Any posts that mention any past contestant or lead or a situation that occurred in a previous season will be deleted.

We simply cannot tolerate going off on tangents about previous leads previous seasons and everyone jumping on the bandwagon to support their favourite person or couple. This creates a tremendous amount of work for us which is totally unnecessary if everyone would simply follow the rules.

It is an incredible amount of work to keep up these last few weeks, due to the increase in members because of the MAFS situation. We are not in a position to take the time to edit posts and figure out which one stays and which one goes. They will all be deleted.

There are a lot of long time posters here, and we look to you to take the initiative to get topics on track at the slightest hint of a brewing post. We can't be in all places all the time when we are trying to catch up on 600 plus posts per day so any help is appreciated.

We thank you all for your contribution to our forum, and we appreciate all the posts and everyone who helps out other posters.

This notice will be posted in About our Site for reference.

TY

Ash2214 wrote:To quote Nick, he stated "I don't know why you'd make love to me if you weren't in love with me" and IMO, that's a pretty clear statement. With that statement, he's stating sex is about love. I don't care much about what he said after the fact. He went on about the importance of sex and what it means to him, how this show dragged him and his family through the mud, stated how he was moving on completely from the show and moving on with his life, but yet he had zero issue messaging Kaitlyn on social media and hopping on the latest bachelorette season. I can't forget to mention that he more than likely had no issue ripping off his capris and getting it on with the latest lead of this show.

Since both Nick and Andi stated she never told him he was the one or that she was in love with him, man, I wonder how Nick feels knowing Kaitlyn spoke with him months before she met him, had sex with him, brought him to the F2, supposedly let him propose, and then dumped him. And nick thought Andi was bad

Even if the sex was just about passion for the two of them and Nick knew it and knew that Kaitlyn didn't love him, then it's ridiculous that he continued on the show. Although, I tend to think he loves the attention - whether good or bad so I don't think it matters to him.

To me, Nick deserves being brought to the end only for Kaitlyn to tell him she hates brown pants ( he seems to wear those all the time ) because of the way he acted like such a jerk to the other guys during Andi's season. I didn't like him then and like him even less now... He's so full of himself and he is barely a 3 on the scale of 1 to 10...and even less than that on a personality scale. I'm sorry to his fans on here, but this is JMHO of him....

LoveDovez wrote:To me, Nick...is barely a 3 on the scale of 1 to 10...and even less than that on a personality scale. I'm sorry to his fans on here, but this is JMHO of him....

It seems viewers either love or hate Nick. I love Nick. For me he's 10/10 :Nod:

Ash2214 wrote:To quote Nick, he stated "I don't know why you'd make love to me if you weren't in love with me" and IMO, that's a pretty clear statement. With that statement, he's stating sex is about love. I don't care much about what he said after the fact. He went on about the importance of sex and what it means to him, how this show dragged him and his family through the mud, stated how he was moving on completely from the show and moving on with his life, but yet he had zero issue messaging Kaitlyn on social media and hopping on the latest bachelorette season. I can't forget to mention that he more than likely had no issue ripping off his capris and getting it on with the latest lead of this show.

Since both Nick and Andi stated she never told him he was the one or that she was in love with him, man, I wonder how Nick feels knowing Kaitlyn spoke with him months before she met him, had sex with him, brought him to the F2, supposedly let him propose, and then dumped him. And nick thought Andi was bad

Even if the sex was just about passion for the two of them and Nick knew it and knew that Kaitlyn didn't love him, then it's ridiculous that he continued on the show. Although, I tend to think he loves the attention - whether good or bad so I don't think it matters to him.

First off, we're assuming RS is right about Kaitlyn letting Nick propose... I mean, this guy (RS) has already been wrong about who she is with currently; he has barely any details Episode 7 onwards, so we really don't know what happened. *edit* If things didn't work out, I'm sure there maybe some emotional hurt, but it doesn't look like either of them are questioning each other's characters, etc, from K's interviews supporting Nick and Nick's twitter/instagram support of K.

And i'm going to put this out there: Kaitlyn has a lot of faults, but she's not cruel. She isn't mean; in fact, she's had a hard time letting guys go each rose ceremony. If Nick did propose, I've no doubt in my mind that it didn't go down in a cruel way. Maybe in an emotional way, but I think Kaitlyn's the sort of person who'd give Nick the closure he needed. She's never been unkind so far, in fact, the opposite, so I think when she let him, if she did, she handled it with compassion, even if there was a proposal involved. *edit* Regardless, it's admirable on both ends that both K and N are supporting each other currently on twitter, interviews, especially since they're not together. It speaks highly of them... and they're my two favourites so I'm really happy they were able to come out of this wishing each other well, regardless of how it went down.

IMO, Nick's true character was obvious to me in tonight's episode.  He was honest, sincere and transparent with the guys during the grilling he recieved just seconds after arriving at the hotel. The producers staged it as him versus the guys...with an empty couch just for Nick facing the swarm of jealous, angry guys.  That is not a situation most people would excel in.

He handled it with a calm and open demeanor.  He addressed their concerns with straightforward answers and sincere body language.  He sympathized with their understandable anger and confusion about his choice to join the show.  He did not let their questions and comments deter him from his main point, but made it very clear...He came for the same reason they SHOULD all be there...Kaitlyn.

The Nick that was shown tonight was the real Nick.  Not the arrogant, confrontational jerk they made him out to be last season.  Tonight his conversation was shown without villian music in the background.  It was shown with very few interruptions and allowed Nick to speak a full sentence.  This avoided his statements being taken out of context and allowed the viewers to see his full intent.  

Unlike last season, which was edited to make him appear deceitful and full of himself.  Sure, he said the words that were shown last year, but a great deal of them were completely taken out of context.  This time around, IMO we were given a more accurate taste of what the conversation actually sounded and felt like in the room with the guys.  

Which is why IMO a bunch of the guys were more accepting of Nick after the conversation.  They didn't like that he was there, but they didn't question his motives as strongly after seeing his transparency during their interrogation.  Many of them realized that he was there for the same reason they were....the cool chick Kaitlyn.

The group date was too funny.  That is again the real Nick.  Sarcastic, a bit silly, bordering on inappropriate (usually for comedy sake), self-deprecating and willing to make a fool of himself for something important.  He went into this season knowing that on this show you have to be open to doing a bunch of crazy stuff to impress the girl.  "Salty" Nick took the night off...well, for a little while.  My favorite was the, "Do I like this hat? YES!" comment.  

I was also very pleased to see his response each time Kaitlyn offered him a rose.  He was not showy.  He accepted with a smile, but then played it off as minimally as possible with his body language and lack of eye contact with Kaitlyn afterward.  Especially with the group date rose.  He let Kaitlyn speak her piece, while he silently staring down at the ground.  Likely it was uncomfortable for him, but he also did not want to rock the boat with the guys.  He humbly accepted her roses while attempting to play nice with the guys in an awkward situation.  

Overall, I do see the edit going in his favor.  At least for the time being.  Who knows what snapchat-gate and the sexcapades will do to future episodes.... But for tonight, I was overjoyed to see Nick's true character shine for at least one episode.  

:Woah-hoo:  :Woah-hoo:  :Woah-hoo: