Andi Dorfman - The Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #2

umngirl wrote:Pretty sure the barnacle reference in terms of Andi was more in the clingy/suffocating sense which is negative (The original poster please correct me if I'm wrong.). When Cat originally used it it was basically her way of saying her husband was her other half and they were inseparable, a sentiment they both state often so it wasn't negative in that sense.

Yes. Didn't mean it as a diss towards Cat, who actually made me chuckle with her comment.

But barnacles are rather gross and hard to remove, so I find it to be a fitting term for a clingy partner.

Ok, moving on from the barnacle talk...

I have always felt that Andi is a black and white thinker. You're either with her or against her. You're either 100% correct or you're 100% wrong. You're either a success or a failure. Perfectionists like that can be difficult to live with. Nobody can meet their impossible standards. They can turn negative on others who they perceive to be falling short. Glass half empty types.

"This is my biggest failure in life", she said to CH. Well, to this I say, "Ok,#1 WHY do you think that? And #2 WHY did it not work out with Josh?"

IF she is all alone in a quiet room and her answer to question #1 remains, "Because I let all my fans down" she needs to hire a professional counselor. She may have said that to CH because of the forum she was in, talking on camera about the show and fans with raw emotions. But, if in the quiet moments she cannot be honest with herself as to why she thinks this break up should be labeled a failure, she needs to seek out the help of someone who can help her see her string of small failings or be able to explain to her that it actually wasn't a failure at all, it was just part of the journey called life. A stumble, a hiccup, a chance to improve.

And even more important, is question #2. Why did the relationship not last? This is where the REAL work needs to be done: the soul searching, the self-analysis, the challenging of old thought patterns. If she really wants to move forward and "succeed" in a future relationship, she needs to figure out if and what she is doing that is not helpful in relationships. The people that know her (family and friends), IMO, are not going to be able to be honest enough to have these conversations with her. They are too close to the problem, and in some cases, they may be a part of the problem. IF she really wants a relationship in the future she needs to work on herself first. No shame in focusing time and attention on oneself with the hopes of self improvement. More people should try it. The world would probably be a better place if they did. JMHOAA.

There are some days that even my shadow is too much for me to be around, forget about that little voice in my head.  I need alone time on a daily basis.

jlccaz wrote:Every couple except for maybe Jake and Vienna LOL has its own deeply invested circle of fans who can't let go of the projected fantasy of love.   There I said it.

There were still diehard "Tessa's Hammock" members tweeting poor Andy Baldwin in secret codes or openly about getting back together with Tessa right up to the day five or six years post Finale when she married someone else.  

To me, this inability to let go of a TV Couple says nothing about the couple, and more about the experience those audience members had personally with projecting personal feelings onto a couple they don't know.

It's so funny.  Can you imagine becoming equally invested in a couple you knew in your Real / Actual Life?  Prodding them to stay in touch, diagramming their areas of compatibility or whether they were fated to stay together? It's one of the MOST curious things about this franchise, or internet "SHIPPING" in general to me.

I agree. It is a fascinating phenomenon. I tread softly when I see it because I've realized that the fantasy is fulfilling some need for the holder - and if that is what makes them happy, so be it.

dw_a_mom wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Every couple except for maybe Jake and Vienna LOL has its own deeply invested circle of fans who can't let go of the projected fantasy of love.   There I said it.

There were still diehard "Tessa's Hammock" members tweeting poor Andy Baldwin in secret codes or openly about getting back together with Tessa right up to the day five or six years post Finale when she married someone else.  

To me, this inability to let go of a TV Couple says nothing about the couple, and more about the experience those audience members had personally with projecting personal feelings onto a couple they don't know.

It's so funny.  Can you imagine becoming equally invested in a couple you knew in your Real / Actual Life?  Prodding them to stay in touch, diagramming their areas of compatibility or whether they were fated to stay together? It's one of the MOST curious things about this franchise, or internet "SHIPPING" in general to me.

I agree. It is a fascinating phenomenon. I tread softly when I see it because I've realized that the fantasy is fulfilling some need for the holder - and if that is what makes them happy, so be it.

It amazes me that there are those groups out there. But shut up about the Tessa thing!! That's not real.. but it's total secondhand embarrassment unless they're 16 or younger (sorry if those people were are members here :X)

I find it baffling and bordering on horrific.

Andy dated Marla Maples, anyone who thought that Tessa should go near him again after that is beyond me. I actually thought Bevin probably added "and thank you for not letting that toolbag pick me" to her nightly prayers with Andy's behavior post him and Tessa breaking up.

The saddest breakup for me was Charlie and Sarah both times. After that I just kind of figured that the real life couple knew better than I did. Of course, I actually thought for as goofy as Charlie was he was one of the more genuine bachelors and to me he played the game much less than other bachelors have.

I think Josh and Andi really tried and can't imagine either of those rather stubborn people giving it up without trying as hard to make it work as they could.

MiaHawk wrote:Ok, moving on from the barnacle talk...

I have always felt that Andi is a black and white thinker. You're either with her or against her. You're either 100% correct or you're 100% wrong. You're either a success or a failure. Perfectionists like that can be difficult to live with. Nobody can meet their impossible standards. They can turn negative on others who they perceive to be falling short. Glass half empty types.

"This is my biggest failure in life", she said to CH. Well, to this I say, "Ok,#1 WHY do you think that? And #2 WHY did it not work out with Josh?"  

IF she is all alone in a quiet room and her answer to question #1 remains, "Because I let all my fans down" she needs to hire a professional counselor. She may have said that to CH because of the forum she was in, talking on camera about the show and fans with raw emotions. But, if in the quiet moments she cannot be honest with herself as to why she thinks this break up should be labeled a failure, she needs to seek out the help of someone who can help her see her string of small failings or be able to explain to her that it actually wasn't a failure at all, it was just part of the journey called life. A stumble, a hiccup, a chance to improve.

And even more important, is question #2. Why did the relationship not last? This is where the REAL work needs to be done: the soul searching, the self-analysis, the challenging of old thought patterns. If she really wants to move forward and "succeed" in a future relationship, she needs to figure out if and what she is doing that is not helpful in relationships. The people that know her (family and friends), IMO, are not going to be able to be honest enough to have these conversations with her. They are too close to the problem, and in some cases, they may be a part of the problem. IF she really wants a relationship in the future she needs to work on herself first. No shame in focusing time and attention on oneself with the hopes of self improvement. More people should try it. The world would probably be a better place if they did. JMHOAA.

Great points, Mia... about Andi being a perfectionist... and her need to please. Focusing one's life on pleasing other people will NEVER bring happiness... Trial and lots of error (maturity) taught me that you must be kind to other people but can only find fulfillment in being true to yourself.

To my eyes, Andi always seemed like she was working too hard to please Josh (she was not this way with any of the other guys) and somehow NOT her true self.... I did find her appearance with CH to be authentic, honest and unguarded ... so perhaps she's in the process of opening the door to self-awareness. I hope so for her sake....

It's funny how people can see things so differently.

During the show, I saw Josh always trying to please Andi. She gave him hell about him possibly cheating on her like her ex-boyfriend did just because he was an athlete at one point. He put up with a lot during the show. She questioned him constantly, whether it was all her doing or production pushing her to do it even more because they knew she was going to pick him and they needed a story line to create doubt, which CH essentially said they did. I really liked on Andi and Josh's last chance date when Andi told Josh he had put her through the ringer he very quickly responded with "What are you talking about? You put me through the ringer!" and she admitted she had.

The same could be said for the 6 months they had in public. Josh seemed to have given up a lot to be with her. I would say Josh worked very hard to please Andi and I think he finally was officially done with it about a month ago.

dw_a_mom wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Every couple except for maybe Jake and Vienna LOL has its own deeply invested circle of fans who can't let go of the projected fantasy of love.   There I said it.

There were still diehard "Tessa's Hammock" members tweeting poor Andy Baldwin in secret codes or openly about getting back together with Tessa right up to the day five or six years post Finale when she married someone else.  

To me, this inability to let go of a TV Couple says nothing about the couple, and more about the experience those audience members had personally with projecting personal feelings onto a couple they don't know.

It's so funny.  Can you imagine becoming equally invested in a couple you knew in your Real / Actual Life?  Prodding them to stay in touch, diagramming their areas of compatibility or whether they were fated to stay together? It's one of the MOST curious things about this franchise, or internet "SHIPPING" in general to me.

I agree. It is a fascinating phenomenon. I tread softly when I see it because I've realized that the fantasy is fulfilling some need for the holder - and if that is what makes them happy, so be it.

I agree... RL is not nearly as good as this franchise... I admit it; I'm totally into the fantasy fulfillment and I'm a happily married middle aged woman, but somehow this show (some contestants) reach me in a very deep place. I used to stammer and apologize for it in RL... but I don't anymore. It actually stokes my creativity and fantasy ...and now I wear it proudly... (no guilty pleasure for this girl) and for this I am actually grateful!! :Nod:

Ash2214 wrote:It's funny how people can see things so differently.

During the show, I saw Josh always trying to please Andi. She gave him hell about him possibly cheating on her like her ex-boyfriend did just because he was an athlete at one point. He put up with a lot during the show. She questioned him constantly, whether it was all her doing or production pushing her to do it even more because they knew she was going to pick him and they needed a story line to create doubt, which CH essentially said they did. I really liked on Andi and Josh's last chance date when Andi told Josh he had put her through the ringer he very quickly responded with "What are you talking about? You put me through the ringer!" and she admitted she had.

The same could be said for the 6 months they had in public. Josh seemed to have given up a lot to be with her. I would say Josh worked very hard to please Andi and I think he finally was officially done with it about a month ago.  

I know I said above that Andi was trying to please Josh and I think she was, but I also agree with your point that she put him through the ringer... definitely. I think she was a little intense/manic on both sides.

Ash2214 wrote:It's funny how people can see things so differently.

During the show, I saw Josh always trying to please Andi. She gave him hell about him possibly cheating on her like her ex-boyfriend did just because he was an athlete at one point. He put up with a lot during the show. She questioned him constantly, whether it was all her doing or production pushing her to do it even more because they knew she was going to pick him and they needed a story line to create doubt, which CH essentially said they did. I really liked on Andi and Josh's last chance date when Andi told Josh he had put her through the ringer he very quickly responded with "What are you talking about? You put me through the ringer!" and she admitted she had.

The same could be said for the 6 months they had in public. Josh seemed to have given up a lot to be with her. I would say Josh worked very hard to please Andi and I think he finally was officially done with it about a month ago.  

Agree. Only I think it was an insidious death that began the end of Oct and finally snuffed itself out at the premiere. 
Your observations of MEandI during the show were what made many have a negative reaction toward ME and I. Unfortunately, Josh was not the only abused that season. 
She appeared very hard around the edges, IMO during her season and this is one reason why her tears at CTN(Chris tells nothing), did not win a large group over. 
Too little, too late, too forced. It's hard to have empathy for those that have none for others. 
I sincerely hope this beautiful, privileged woman has learned a valuable lesson from this past (almost) 18 months. I hope she comes out the other side of her pain, in a better place.