Andi Dorfman - The Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #2

I was just about to post this when eliza3 posted hers and we are thinking the same way.

I agree. I really don't think Andi saying this was her first true heartbreak was in any way a reference to Nick and certainly not an apology. I doubt she has really given a second thought to the contents of the letter he wrote to her so long ago. IMO the pain and heartbreak she was expressing in her interview was simply about her and Josh, the love they had shared and what they have both lost. I feel it was evident by her emotions that this was the real deal for both of them and she made it very clear that she never questioned her decision to choose Josh.

I definitely believe Andi blames Nick for several things, and I don't see her reaching out anytime soon to apologize or be friends with him. His revelation on ATFR and the public backlash that she has continued to endure because of it would in itself be hard to forgive IMO. But if it also played any type of role in the tensions with her and Josh, that would likely be the nail in the coffin. Personally, I think Josh got over it and understood the process, but I think the embarrasment that it caused his parents and family was where the real problem may have arose. Even Lucy Aragon stated very blatantly on Afterbuzz TV that Andi would never give Nick another chance after he called her out on National TV. And we now how liberal she is.

Laudergirl wrote:I was just about to post this when eliza3 posted hers and we are thinking the same way.

I agree. I really don't think Andi saying this was her first true heartbreak was in any way a reference to Nick and certainly not an apology.  I doubt she has really given a second thought to the contents of the letter he wrote to her so long ago.  IMO the pain and heartbreak she was expressing in her interview was simply about her and Josh, the love they had shared and what they have both lost. I feel it was evident by her emotions that this was the real deal for both of them and she made it very clear that she never questioned her decision to choose Josh.

I definitely believe Andi blames Nick for several things, and I don't see her reaching out anytime soon to apologize or be friends with him. His revelation on ATFR and the public backlash that she has continued to endure because of it would in itself be hard to forgive IMO. But if it also played any type of role in the tensions with her and Josh, that would likely be the nail in the coffin. Personally, I think Josh got over it and understood the process, but I think the embarrasment that it caused his parents and family was where the real problem may have arose. Even Lucy Aragon  stated very blatantly on Afterbuzz TV that Andi would never give Nick another chance after he called her out on National TV. And we now how liberal she is.

I agree with you about Andi and Nick and hope that they never get together again.  However, as to the bolded part, if Andi hadn't tasted the candy, then it couldn't possibly have played a part in the tensions between her and Josh (if that is one of the reasons why they couldn't make it work).  Kiptyn once said, if you don't say it they can't broadcast it.  Well, in my opinion, if you don't play dunk the weasel, then Nick wouldn't have been able to bring it up at the AFTR.

Nick isn't the first person to do that either.  Reid mentioned something to Jillian at her AFTR about making love as well.

Yeah, I'm confused as to how that could have been a reference to Nick too. It's a very general statement that people say. You either have had your heart broken or you haven't.

Andi and Josh spoke many times during the show about whether or not either of them had their hearts broken before. From everything we know, Andi only had one other serious relationship that lasted about three years. That relationship was with the guy that was in and out of the NFL for a few years and it's the same guy that supposedly cheated on her more than once. She made it seem like a lot of it was long distance. She even said with Dylan on their 1-on-1 that while it was just a good, not a great relationship, they had their issues (him cheating on her) so she was essentially relieved when she finally broke up with him for good, so therefore, she certainly made it seem like it caused her no heart break.

Since the sit down interview was for her to talk about her broken relationship with Josh, I think it was simply what it was supposed to be. She's upset, hurt, sad, etc. for various reasons because the relationship (an engagement) didn't work out the way they wanted it to, therefore, she's heart broken.

IMO, Andi will never truly grow as a person until she stops placing blame on others. We can't control what others do, we can only control what we do and how we react to others' actions. I agree with gurlbrit in that if Andi had never slept with Nick in the fantasy suite, he wouldn't have had anything to bring up in the first place

To me,  what Andi and Nick did together at this point is immaterial, it's the fact that it became public knowledge.  That is something I don't think Andi will ever forgive him for, and I personally don't think she should

I think Andi took blame with Josh in the interview. Now if she never loved the other guy (football player) why did I have to listen to her question Josh's sincerity because of him all the time?

I also agree that Andi will never think she did any wrong to Nick. Any chance for that died when he outed her on national tv.

Sadly I don't expect Andi to ever realize that her own actions played into that. Once you wrong Andi she will never take blame IMO.

stuckinsc wrote:I think Andi took blame with Josh in the interview. Now if she never loved the other guy (football player) why did I have to listen to her question Josh's sincerity because of him all the time?

I also agree that Andi will never think she did any wrong to Nick. Any chance for that died when he outed her on national tv.

Sadly I don't expect Andi to ever realize that her own actions played into that. Once you wrong Andi she will never take blame IMO.

The other guy cheated on her.... makes sense to me that she'd be protective and vulnerable, particularly if Josh reminded her of this guy (athlete).

eliza3 wrote:

SueSt wrote:

happygolucky wrote:Sue - I finally catch you, I've tried to avoid this thread, but feel need to comment on your question.
I sincerely think that will never happen - in her mind (and maybe somebody else thinks so too) she probably still thinks it's his fault for bringing the FS up, so he's to blame (maybe even for the later outcome).
If I'm wrong and she does (and I don't need to know) - or just thinks about it - it might be a great step towards a change. Her personal growth. I wish all good luck.

Hi Happy

I agree about Andi blaming Nick... and can imagine that Nick's ATFR comments (really, Andi's actions) were likely a catalyst for at least some of the tensions between Josh & Andi.  Like that piece of rotting fruit in the back of the refrigerator, you can't locate it, but it's rank and foul and permeates everything.

I do think Andi showed some honest, unguarded moments when she was crying and (to me) her words were a direct reference/response to Nick's letter so possibly, just possibly, as you note, she’s on a path toward deeper personal growth... I hope so for her sake.

To my eyes, the problem for Andi is that she's continuing to look for support from the public – tweeting and instagramming to encourage and fan responses, which it appears she’s getting a lot of.  But the problem with relying on others to determine what’s acceptable/not in your own life (subverting your instincts and feelings) is a recipe for disaster.  You become dependent on other’s opinions and incapable of making your own choices.

I love that Nick (what a guy, seriously!       ) keeps offering her an olive branch, being kind in his public responses to her situation, saying he'd be open to a friendship, favoriting her tweets, etc.. For her own personal growth, it would be great if she would take it…

Hugs, Sue  

I have to jump in and put out the other side of this.  .   I don't think Andi was thinking about Nick at all or his letter during the interview.   After what he publicly did to her.    Regardless of how things went down during the season, that is a deal breaker in my mind.  I don't believe she will ever think positively about him again.   I think she is truly heartbroken from her relationship with Josh.   I do agree that she is trying to find meaning to what has happened with Josh and that can lead to personal growth.   IMHO

I agree Eliza; I don't think she was consciously thinking of Nick or his letter... but maybe subconsciously... anyway, interesting to me her choice of words. Her tears, of course, are all about the failure of her relationship with Josh. Too bad that she can't also see her that her behavior was the catalyst for Nick's confession... that too would lead to personal growth.

Sable wrote:IMO, Andi will never truly grow as a person until she stops placing blame on others.  We can't control what others do, we can only control what we do and how we react to others' actions.  I agree with gurlbrit in that if Andi had never slept with Nick in the fantasy suite, he wouldn't have had anything to bring up in the first place

SueSt wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I think Andi took blame with Josh in the interview. Now if she never loved the other guy (football player) why did I have to listen to her question Josh's sincerity because of him all the time?

I also agree that Andi will never think she did any wrong to Nick. Any chance for that died when he outed her on national tv.

Sadly I don't expect Andi to ever realize that her own actions played into that. Once you wrong Andi she will never take blame IMO.

The other guy cheated on her.... makes sense to me that she'd be protective and vulnerable, particularly if Josh reminded her of this guy (athlete).

Seriously, my current husband is the only guy including my ex-husband to not cheat on me. It sucks but it doesn't mean you should hold it against the next ones to come along.

I thought this was a big part of the J&A issue. Sooner or later he was going to grow tired of constantly having Andi question him and having to do things to prove himself. IMO, behavior like that doesn't magically change.

gurlbrit wrote:
I agree with you about Andi and Nick and hope that they never get together again.  However, as to the bolded part, if Andi hadn't tasted the candy, then it couldn't possibly have played a part in the tensions between her and Josh (if that is one of the reasons why they couldn't make it work).  Kiptyn once said, if you don't say it they can't broadcast it.  Well, in my opinion, if you don't play dunk the weasel, then Nick wouldn't have been able to bring it up at the AFTR.

Nick isn't the first person to do that either.  Reid mentioned something to Jillian at her AFTR about making love as well.

good one gurlbrit!!

stuckinsc wrote:

SueSt wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I think Andi took blame with Josh in the interview. Now if she never loved the other guy (football player) why did I have to listen to her question Josh's sincerity because of him all the time?

I also agree that Andi will never think she did any wrong to Nick. Any chance for that died when he outed her on national tv.

Sadly I don't expect Andi to ever realize that her own actions played into that. Once you wrong Andi she will never take blame IMO.

The other guy cheated on her.... makes sense to me that she'd be protective and vulnerable, particularly if Josh reminded her of this guy (athlete).

Seriously, my current husband is the only guy including my ex-husband to not cheat on me. It sucks but it doesn't mean you should hold it against the next ones to come along.

I thought this was a big part of the J&A issue. Sooner or later he was going to grow tired of constantly having Andi question him and having to do things to prove himself. IMO, behavior like that doesn't magically change.

Sorry for your past, Stuck.  Great that you are able to take each man on his own merit/limitations and not hold your past against them.  
I had a number of core emotional issues in my life that I did speak with my husband about as we were courting... it was an opportunity to share my vulnerability and based on his reactions, and as a result, I knew he was the one for me...
But to your point, and of course we don't know if this was THE core issue that led to their breakup, but maybe Andi never got the assurances she needed to feel safe with Josh.