Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #2

albean99 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:I don't think you are missing anything.  IMO, some don't like Jodi and that is fine and their right, but I believe because of the strong dislike some have against Andi, they are choosing to believe Jodi is fake.  No fact to back it up, just their opinion.

IMO, Josh and Andi are all over each other and so in love I can't imagine how anyone would see the opposite.  

I can't speak for anyone else but myself. But imo, because I like or dislike any couple would have little or no bearing on whether or not I thought they would or would not last.  
Ladybug82 summed up a lot of what I feel in her first paragraph.
I could list many reasons I don't like MEandI, but no one really wants to hear those. It's only my opinion.
Josh falls into the same common ground as 95% of the other cast, for me.  I don't really care one way or the other. I don't mean it in a mean way. I have just moved on and these are just people on a show for me--let them have happy, healthy lives. I mean that.  I strongly believe in Karma, kumbaya and all that jazz. Let the world be a better place!
Do I think JODI will last? No, for many reasons. But if they do--fine. Let them have years of good health and happiness. I really don't think anyone is interested in my reasoning and in the scheme of life, it does not matter.  All that matters is what the couple thinks.
I have been fans of couples that have "made it", just as well as the opposite.  It really has little affect on my life. I think they would approve and be glad!

Andi's personality definitely impacts how I see their chance of a long lasting relationship. She seems to be used to getting her way in life and is nice until someone stands in her way. Right now it looks like Josh is going along with it and possibly pushing his family away but how long until he resents her for it? All of this is okay in the first part of a relationship when you're all lovey dovey but that doesn't last forever and you start to see someone's warts. I'm just not sure they'll survive when things aren't so exciting. 

I'm not always right about the couples post show and it's possible I'll be eating my words. 

A lot of people think that Andi is a spoiled brat - and to be honest, I can see somewhat what they mean - being the last child, being home schooled etc. But let's face it, the Andi with Josh and before Josh are different people. I believe her love for Josh has made her a better more mature person. In an interview when asked about fights etc., Andi said she finds herself giving into Josh more than she ever has in any other relationship.

When you look at the dynamics of her relationship, while she may appear to be the one pulling the strings, I do believe that Josh is "in charge". She likes a man who can just take charge and run with things. In her relationship with other people on the show, she was the one who took charge. I remember either in Molly and Jason's podcast or elsewhere they said that coming towards the end of the show, it seemed as though Josh was the lead and that Andi was a contestant on the show. But this is just my opinion...

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:Yes, we all see things differently.  It is what makes the world go 'round!  I see Andi as softening, almost morphing into Josh.  She has said she loves him more everyday.   All my opinion.  

Whereas I see Josh becoming more like Andi.  It is all in our own opinions and perspective.  I also can and have been wrong.  If they make it and I start to see a difference, I will be happy to admit then.  Until then, I still don't like Andi and I am growing to dislike Josh.  Again, this is just my opinion.

I wonder if Nick had won the show if some would have ceased to like him as well because he is associated with Andi?

aviej wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

soccermom333 wrote:Yes, we all see things differently.  It is what makes the world go 'round!  I see Andi as softening, almost morphing into Josh.  She has said she loves him more everyday.   All my opinion.  

Whereas I see Josh becoming more like Andi.  It is all in our own opinions and perspective.  I also can and have been wrong.  If they make it and I start to see a difference, I will be happy to admit then.  Until then, I still don't like Andi and I am growing to dislike Josh.  Again, this is just my opinion.

I wonder if Nick had won the show if some would have ceased to like him as well because he is associated with Andi?

I can say that if I saw him becoming like Andi, then yes, I would have. What I liked about Andi with Nick was that I saw a softer less confrontation and mean Andi with Nick. By the FD I was over that too. I really wanted Nick and Josh to both escape from Andi.

I had hope that Josh would soften Andi, but to me I see him being a lot more like her. This is just my opinion. I understand others claim to see a softening. I haven't paid as close attention as you all have, but on a big noticeable scale, nope it isn't there yet.

I didn't want Des with Chris at first either, I wanted him to be the lead and have someone who wanted him first choice. As I watched and saw that Des was what made Chris happy and how in love with him she was, I changed.

So again, if I see that with J&A, I will admit I was wrong as I have with Des and Chris. But, nope right now, I just don't see it.

aviej wrote:

albean99 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:

I can't speak for anyone else but myself. But imo, because I like or dislike any couple would have little or no bearing on whether or not I thought they would or would not last.  
Ladybug82 summed up a lot of what I feel in her first paragraph.
I could list many reasons I don't like MEandI, but no one really wants to hear those. It's only my opinion.
Josh falls into the same common ground as 95% of the other cast, for me.  I don't really care one way or the other. I don't mean it in a mean way. I have just moved on and these are just people on a show for me--let them have happy, healthy lives. I mean that.  I strongly believe in Karma, kumbaya and all that jazz. Let the world be a better place!
Do I think JODI will last? No, for many reasons. But if they do--fine. Let them have years of good health and happiness. I really don't think anyone is interested in my reasoning and in the scheme of life, it does not matter.  All that matters is what the couple thinks.
I have been fans of couples that have "made it", just as well as the opposite.  It really has little affect on my life. I think they would approve and be glad!

Andi's personality definitely impacts how I see their chance of a long lasting relationship. She seems to be used to getting her way in life and is nice until someone stands in her way. Right now it looks like Josh is going along with it and possibly pushing his family away but how long until he resents her for it? All of this is okay in the first part of a relationship when you're all lovey dovey but that doesn't last forever and you start to see someone's warts. I'm just not sure they'll survive when things aren't so exciting. 

I'm not always right about the couples post show and it's possible I'll be eating my words. 

A lot of people think that Andi is a spoiled brat - and to be honest, I can see somewhat what they mean - being the last child, being home schooled etc. But let's face it, the Andi with Josh and before Josh are different people. I believe her love for Josh has made her a better more mature person. In an interview when asked about fights etc., Andi said she finds herself giving into Josh more than she ever has in any other relationship.

When you look at the dynamics of her relationship, while she may appear to be the one pulling the strings, I do believe that Josh is "in charge". She likes a man who can just take charge and run with things. In her relationship with other people on the show, she was the one who took charge. I remember either in Molly and Jason's podcast or elsewhere they said that coming towards the end of the show, it seemed as though Josh was the lead and that Andi was a contestant on the show.  But this is just my opinion...

I heard this too, and it was Jason and Molly's podcast. They thought Andi was acting so nervous around Josh and that she was trying to win him over vs. the rest of the guys trying to win Andi over. Hence, them saying Josh seemed more like the lead in the end and Andi the contestant. Atleast that's how I remember it.

It really is interesting how we can form such different opinions watching the same lead and the same show. I guess I have never really seen the Bratty Andi or MEANDI talked about here. I see a strong minded, smart, assertive woman who can get overly emotional at times, but I don't consider that brattiness. Maybe it's because I see so much of myself in Andi, and I don't consider myself a brat or a selfish person, I don't know. But I will say that if so many of you consider Andi bratty, you would probably consider myself and my daughter bratty too, because we have personalities very similar to Andi. And for those that don't think a person with such personality traits is likely to have a successful long lasting relationship or marriage, I beg to differ. I have been married 22 years and my daughter has dated the same guy for 5 years (she is only 20), so us "bratty" women can have great realtionships afterall. I guess it just takes the right guy.

I think everyone can have long relationships with the right person. We all need that.

I tend to be a caregiver and will actually mother everyone around me too much. My husband evens me out because he helps me reign that in and truly he doesn't need me, he just loves me. It is pretty awesome.

So I think Andi can find someone. And it maybe that Josh is it. I just hoped she might become more like her and not him more like her. Just my opinion.

I also work in a field where for years as a woman you had to be a b**** to be taken seriously, basically be like a man. So I don't like when woman are b**** and use the strong excuse. To me it is an insult to really strong women. Like single mothers who actually have to support their children all on their own. Or wives of military husbands who have to take care of everything. Women who give their all and care for others and not have to act like b****es to do it. To me that is strength.

Using "strength" as an excuse to be a b**** has never set well with me. That in my opinion is what Andi does.

stuckinsc wrote:I think everyone can have long relationships with the right person.  We all need that.  

I tend to be a caregiver and will actually mother everyone around me too much. My husband evens me out because he helps me reign that in and truly he doesn't need me, he just loves me.  It is pretty awesome.

So I think Andi can find someone.  And it maybe that Josh is it. I just hoped she might become more like her and not him more like her.  Just my opinion.

I also work in a field where for years as a woman you had to be a b**** to be taken seriously, basically be like a man.  So I don't like when woman are b**** and use the strong excuse. To me it is an insult to really strong women.  Like single mothers who actually have to support their children all on their own.  Or wives of military husbands who have to take care of everything.  Women who give their all and care for others and not have to act like b****es to do it. To me that is strength.  

Using "strength" as an excuse to be a b**** has never set well with me.  That in my opinion is what Andi does.

I'm truly curious to get some feedback as to why Andi is described by some as a b**** in this discussion. What did she do exactly? She may seem a bit intimidating in her demeanor at times, but to me that is because she is confident, independent, knows what she wants, and is willing to speak up for herself and her beliefs. I also see a loyal, compassionate and nurturing side to her. I could give examples as to specific things she did or said this season that make me feel that way, but it would take far too long to type them. Obviously she is not everyone's cup of tea and that's fine, but she definitely seems to be Josh's. And for the most part, I feel the two of them have shown a lot of positivity, gratitude towards their fans, and a genuine desire to help others since the show ended. I don't know whose personality is rubbing off on who more, but they seem like a pretty good match to me, and from what I've read by people who've met and interacted with them, they are genuine down to earth people.

Oh, and btw, I definitely agree with the above statement that there is a difference between being a strong woman and being a b****, but I was referring to Andi as a strong minded woman in my post above. That is different to me than a mentally or emotionally strong woman, which is what I think of when reading your description above.  I haven't seen enough of Andi to have an opinion of her in that regard.

Laudergirl wrote:

aviej wrote:

albean99 wrote:




Andi's personality definitely impacts how I see their chance of a long lasting relationship. She seems to be used to getting her way in life and is nice until someone stands in her way. Right now it looks like Josh is going along with it and possibly pushing his family away but how long until he resents her for it? All of this is okay in the first part of a relationship when you're all lovey dovey but that doesn't last forever and you start to see someone's warts. I'm just not sure they'll survive when things aren't so exciting. 

I'm not always right about the couples post show and it's possible I'll be eating my words. 

A lot of people think that Andi is a spoiled brat - and to be honest, I can see somewhat what they mean - being the last child, being home schooled etc. But let's face it, the Andi with Josh and before Josh are different people. I believe her love for Josh has made her a better more mature person. In an interview when asked about fights etc., Andi said she finds herself giving into Josh more than she ever has in any other relationship.

When you look at the dynamics of her relationship, while she may appear to be the one pulling the strings, I do believe that Josh is "in charge". She likes a man who can just take charge and run with things. In her relationship with other people on the show, she was the one who took charge. I remember either in Molly and Jason's podcast or elsewhere they said that coming towards the end of the show, it seemed as though Josh was the lead and that Andi was a contestant on the show.  But this is just my opinion...

I heard this too, and it was Jason and Molly's podcast. They thought Andi was acting so nervous around Josh and that she was trying to win him over vs. the rest of the guys trying to win Andi over. Hence, them saying Josh seemed more like the lead in the end and Andi the contestant. Atleast that's how I remember it.  

It really is interesting how we can form such different opinions watching the same lead and the same show. I guess I have never really seen the Bratty Andi or MEANDI talked about here. I see a strong minded, smart, assertive woman who can get overly emotional at times, but I don't consider that brattiness. Maybe it's because I see so much of myself in Andi, and I don't consider myself a brat or a selfish person, I don't know. But I will say that if so many of you consider Andi bratty, you would probably consider myself and my daughter bratty too, because we have personalities very similar to Andi. And for those that don't think a person with such personality traits is likely to have a successful long lasting relationship or marriage, I beg to differ.  I have been married 22 years and my daughter has dated the same guy for 5 years (she is only 20), so us "bratty" women can have great realtionships afterall. I guess it just takes the right guy.

SAME! My personality is SO similar to hers I'm almost offended sometimes with some of the comments. Now in no way do I think I'm without faults, because I willingly admit I can be a bit bratty, and not the warmest to people at first (my best friend in the whole world thought I was a b**** before getting to know me because I'm so standoffish to people I don't know well, and I have a resting b**** face), but the way some so easily condemn Andi as this terrible person, or to say that Andi and Josh won't last because they don't like Andi's personality is mindblowing to me. If Josh loves Andi as he's said, then he understands her personality, he understands that she can be bratty, and she does like to have her way, and that's who she is, and it doesn't make her a bad person anymore than it does me. It just means we takes a little bit more effort, but if you're WILLING to make the effort then it's worth it.

Even though I am a huge Andi fan, in all fairness, Andi did say herself that she is a brat. She said in an ITM that she could be her complete self with Josh - her brattiness ....her divaness.

I do think she is a strong woman, and as far as Josh is concerned, that's a sexy quality to him. Let's not confuse strong with being a b****. It's interesting the stereotype that is often placed on women who are strong. A woman who displays strength like Andi is labelled as a b****, but if a man does the same thing, then he's just being a man or being assertive. This is the 21st century, women are allowed to be strong, and stand firm in their opinions and not be bulldozed by men. I say, good for her!

Laudergirl you and I are on the exact same page!

I do remember Andi saying she can be her complete self, divaness and all, but every person has a little of that in them, man or woman.

IMO it just seems Andi is a very guarded person and is hesitant to let people get too close, I would assume especially now that she is in the public eye. Josh has said on multiple occasions, however that Andi has a very nurturing side. I find it kind of funny that people judge her so negatively from what they saw on the show when a lot of that was editing, and I am sure her being genuinely tired. Josh would know best how she is one on one and if he sees that kind, soft side to her then that is all that really matters.

I also think it is interesting that people pull this negativity from the show and I have never heard any of the contestants from JP's season say she was a b**** or diva. Take it I did not follow that season too closely so I could of missed some things.

I definitely think Andi has a strong personality but I think Josh has one too so it balances them out well. I personally am rooting for them and would love to see a wedding very soon.

Personally, I don't care if Andi's a witch, a b!tch or a wardrobe. Her friends, family and Josh all seem to want to keep her as she came from the factory, so rock on.

As for Josh: I think Josh is not visiting his family because Josh doesn't want to, not because Mean Andi told him to get back in the house and do the dishes since August. Who knows what was going on behind the perfect all-American, Ralph Lauren-wearing facade all this time preshow in the Murray family.

Alanna wrote:Personally, I don't care if Andi's a witch, a b!tch or a wardrobe. Her friends, family and Josh all seem to want to keep her as she came from the factory, so rock on.

As for Josh: I think Josh is not visiting his family because Josh doesn't want to, not because Mean Andi told him to get back in the house and do the dishes since August. Who knows what was going on behind the perfect all-American, Ralph Lauren-wearing facade all this time preshow in the Murray family.

Very good point. I've been thinking the same.

I agree with you Alanna. Over the years I've found that some strong women are referred to as B's, but not the same for men that come off strong. Plus lets all remember that Josh  has a brain & can do whatever he wants in regards to his family. I don't think he's her puppet.