Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

I wouldn't call myself a fan of any of the people from this franchise since I find it a bit strange to fawn over regular people, let alone people I don't personally know. I am a fan of the Bachelor though, lord knows why, but I watch every season and I do want to know what happens to these people after their seasons end. If they show up on TV airing their issues then I will likely tune in. That obviously raises thoughts, whether positive or negative, and I feel I have the right to discuss those thoughts in the general discussion threads. Before this show started I'd actually forgotten how much I disliked Juan Pablo and I was hoping they end up married just so I can watch TPTB try to reclaim them as a success story. That would have been funny. After 10 minutes of this show it all came flooding back and now I just want Nikki to get out. I don't "hate" either of them, I just dislike Juan Pablo and how he treats women. If someone doesn't want to hear about it, then maybe they should stick to the fan thread.

mindless wrote:I wouldn't call myself a fan of any of the people from this franchise since I find it a bit strange to fawn over regular people, let alone people I don't personally know. I am a fan of the Bachelor though, lord knows why, but I watch every season and I do want to know what happens to these people after their seasons end. If they show up on TV airing their issues then I will likely tune in. That obviously raises thoughts, whether positive or negative, and I feel I have the right to discuss those thoughts in the general discussion threads. Before this show started I'd actually forgotten how much I disliked Juan Pablo and I was hoping they end up married just so I can watch TPTB try to reclaim them as a success story. That would have been funny. After 10 minutes of this show it all came flooding back and now I just want Nikki to get out. I don't "hate" either of them, I just dislike Juan Pablo and how he treats women. If someone doesn't want to hear about it, then maybe they should stick to the fan thread.

Totally agreed with everything you wrote, especially the bolded. The whole "if you don't like the couple, why do you follow them" argument is so silly. Once you become a public figure, everyone is going to have an opinion about you, good or bad. That's just the way it is. Instead of arguing that the "those who are not fans" don't have a right to their opinion, try to have a civil conversation or just ignore them.

mindless wrote:

umngirl wrote:
JuanPa wasn't a bad lead because he was unwilling to play TPTB's games. He was a bad lead because he's a jerk who sucked at communicating, had endless excuses for his behavior, and treated some of the girls poorly.

My thoughts exactly. I really don't care about him not proposing or saying ILY, because frankly I think everyone on this franchise would be better off saying "I like you a lot, let's see where this goes". It's how he treated the women, especially Clare and even Nikki. On ATFR she came on stage sounding really positive about their relationship, yet Juan Pablo wouldn't even give her any praise. Forget the ILY, he could've at least said what an amazing woman she is and that he was lucky to find her, but no, he was too busy being a petulant child, because he didn't get his dancing gig. She got to sit there mute between him and CH while they bickered about whether or not he loves her. I felt so bad for her! Basically the only thing he could be bothered to say was that they're in a relationship, kind of like "draw your own conclusions". I just thought it was really inconsiderate towards her. You don't put someone you care about in that situation. You just don't.

And then on this show months later, he's still saying inconsiderate things about her and infront of her, to people he doesn't even know. And she thinks he does love her? How does he show it with actions exactly? By doing a few romantic things any man courting a woman does? That doesn't mean much. It makes me wonder if she's ever really been loved in a relationship, because I remember how I used to convince myself that a guy loves me, when they clearly didn't. That's when I was around 20 though and didn't know any better. I really don't trust her judgement on the matter, since I've seen no proof of his feelings with my own eyes. And if he did actually love her then there's no excuse for not saying it. He's really into excuses anyway, like not proposing out of respect for Nikki's dad. Give me a break. Of course he shouldn't propose until he knows he loves her, what's her dad got to do with it? Why even bring him up unless it's to score some brownie points? It's just illogical.  

ITA.
I'm not in love with any of the ABC "couples", but I have an opinion, and as a woman I am bothered by a person in the spotlight (JPG) treating a woman (Nikki) like she's second class. This game of not saying ILY is  a little old, to me. Life is not all puppies and roses in marriage or relationships, so I don't believe in FOREVER happy after. Being together is work. I know. I've dated A LOT and am married.

I don't care what Nikki says and how she justifies JPG's behavior. It's gotta hurt, and it's humiliating. She's helplessly in love with someone who gives her only crumbs. What's the BIG deal in saying ILY? IF you feel it, say IT!!! I do see the refusal to say it as form of CONTROL, and disrespect. As he feeds her crumbs( she thinks he'll say it today), he gets to be in the driver's seat while she CATERS to his whims. Sure, he'll do a little of this and that for her just to keep her eating out of his hand and treating him like KING $hit. Meh.

I am not buying into JPG's version that he didn't want the ABC powers the satisfaction of proposing. Proposing comes from within. It's not a game, or a cultural excuse. People from all over the world get married and/or are in love. Venezuela is NOT different. JPG is NOT special.

The way I see it is that "something" is missing for him in this relationship, and so he cannot commit, or plain simple he is a commitment phobe and cannot marry anyone. Either way, it's not fair to the girl who helplessly falls for him.

This JPG saying about Nikki " I'd be sad if she left me..." Cripe, you get attached to a puppy, and be sad if you parted.

In  nutshell: IMO JPG is a poor excuse for a boyfriend/husband material. He needs to man up. Stop using ABC or his culture for his poor behavior. I don't think that he fell for any of the girls on the Bach. Nothing wrong with that. He chose Nikki because she seemed like a "good catch", and NOW he is using her for FAME. Without hanging on to her he'll be toast. The spotlight will end.

I would just like everyone to remember that Nikki's dad specifically asked JPG to not propose until he was really sure.

Like him or not he does have a daughter and he and Nikki both need to know if she is ready to move to Miami to be with him as that is where is daughter is, so yes, Nikki would need to move. Everyone on that season knew they would have to move to be with him.

He maybe selfish with the no ILY, but I see the not proposing until they both know they are ready as also being respectful of Nikki's dad.

The bachelor throws around engagement as an agreement to date. It is not, it should be a commitment to marry and should only be made once someone is sure they are ready for marriage.

In my opinion it is far more selfish to propose because the producers tell you to and then make someone have a broken engagement.

^I would say 90% of people commenting have no issue with the no proposal or no ILY. But that doesn't excuse his jerk behavior on his season and even on CT. JuanPa needs to grow up and stop making excuses. End of story.

umngirl wrote:^I would say 90% of people commenting have no issue with the no proposal or no ILY. But that doesn't excuse his jerk behavior on his season and even on CT. JuanPa needs to grow up and stop making excuses. End of story.

I was responding to most people say it was being selfish to not to either which was stated in the few posts above mine. I am just supplying the facts about the proposal. As for the selfish behavior, as I said not going to defend, either at the end of this they will be better or not.

I knew when they decided to do this show it would give all the people who hated an excuse to hate again. Nothing to be done about that and only time and actions will changes those opinions.

stuckinsc wrote:I would just like everyone to remember that Nikki's dad specifically asked JPG to not propose until he was really sure.

Like him or not he does have a daughter and he and Nikki both need to know if she is ready to move to Miami to be with him as that is where is daughter is, so yes, Nikki would need to move.  Everyone on that season knew they would have to move to be with him.

He maybe selfish with the no ILY, but I see the not proposing until they both know they are ready as also being respectful of Nikki's dad.

The bachelor throws around engagement as an agreement to date.  It is not, it should be a commitment to marry and should only be made once someone is sure they are ready for marriage.

In my opinion it is far more selfish to propose because the producers tell you to and then make someone have a broken engagement.

******************************************************************************************************


************Edited******************
The way he is behaving has NOTHING to do with what producers want.
JPG is trying to fool the world with that excuse and the other excuse is his culture....

*******************Edited****************

I was in a relationship with a guy for 5 years, and we both (mostly he, but I didn't stop him) talked about marriage. He was a nice guy, and we BOTH spoiled each other (his words). I would even go so far and make statements like : Oh, we'll get married one day, but just couldn't pull the trigger. I was  scared, non-committal, or whatever. I didn't know MY PROBLEM. We treated each other very well. Nonetheless, there must have been something missing, or he wasn't the right one for me, because I would feel a lot of pressure when he'd get serious. Long story... I broke up with him, and in a weird way it was one of the easiest break ups ever for me ( not him)..... The next people we met , we both married.

Why? Because I woke up, got honest, realized that I just couldn't go on with marrying him, even though he was the nicest guy. I had no reservations when I met the next guy because I'm still married to him years later.

This is probably like a Kiptyn/Tenley situation. She's a super great girl, he mentally knows she SHOULD be The One but she isn't. Nothing wrong with that, just move on. I don't know why they're dragging this out. I mean I do know- money, she's hoping things change, etc., I just think it's stupid to drag it out.

Alanna wrote:This is probably like a Kiptyn/Tenley situation. She's a super great girl, he mentally knows she SHOULD be The One but she isn't. Nothing wrong with that, just move on. I don't know why they're dragging this out. I mean I do know- money, she's hoping things change, etc., I just think it's stupid to drag it out.

Honestly, I don't think JP even thinks that. I do think that Kiptyn loved Tenley - not in the way that she wanted, but I do think that he deeply cared for her. In fact, I think that there was some speculation that she broke up with him the second time, because he had just thrown her that huge 30th birthday party. I think that JP is just having fun with Nikki and enjoying the perks (aka money and fame) that he gets by being with her. Personally, I don't think that he ever seriously considered spending the rest of his life with her.

Ariela wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I would just like everyone to remember that Nikki's dad specifically asked JPG to not propose until he was really sure.

Like him or not he does have a daughter and he and Nikki both need to know if she is ready to move to Miami to be with him as that is where is daughter is, so yes, Nikki would need to move.  Everyone on that season knew they would have to move to be with him.

He maybe selfish with the no ILY, but I see the not proposing until they both know they are ready as also being respectful of Nikki's dad.

The bachelor throws around engagement as an agreement to date.  It is not, it should be a commitment to marry and should only be made once someone is sure they are ready for marriage.

In my opinion it is far more selfish to propose because the producers tell you to and then make someone have a broken engagement.

******************************************************************************************************


************Edited******************
The way he is behaving has NOTHING to do with what producers want.
JPG is trying to fool the world with that excuse and the other excuse is his culture....

*******************Edited****************

I was in a relationship with a guy for 5 years, and we both (mostly he, but I didn't stop him) talked about marriage. He was a nice guy, and we BOTH spoiled each other (his words). I would even go so far and make statements like : Oh, we'll get married one day, but just couldn't pull the trigger. I was  scared, non-committal, or whatever. I didn't know MY PROBLEM. We treated each other very well. Nonetheless, there must have been something missing, or he wasn't the right one for me, because I would feel a lot of pressure when he'd get serious. Long story... I broke up with him, and in a weird way it was one of the easiest break ups ever for me ( not him)..... The next people we met , we both married.

Why? Because I woke up, got honest, realized that I just couldn't go on with marrying him, even though he was the nicest guy. I had no reservations when I met the next guy because I'm still married to him years later.

I have been married twice. I wish I had been strong enough to say no the first time.

I just wanted to point out, if you watch JPG's HTD episode, he is honoring her dad's wishes for that.

Again, I will wait and see where they are at the end of this experience to comment whether it is real or not. As I have said only time and actions will change anyone's mind.

stuckinsc wrote:
I just wanted to point out, if you watch JPG's HTD episode, he is honoring her dad's wishes for that.

My point about bringing Nikki's dad up was that if Juan Pablo didn't love Nikki, then he had no business proposing anyway. If her dad hadn't said anything about it, then would he have proposed? I don't think so, or at least I hope he wouldn't have. If he had, then he would've at least had to lie about loving her since you don't propose marriage to someone with "I like you a lot". He didn't (doesn't) love her and that's the only reason for not proposing to her and that's perfectly fine. But he knew people disliked him so he tried to make himself look better by saying he didn't propose out of respect for Nikki's dad. He only said it to make himself look better and I find that manipulative. I hate seeing people praise him for respecting Nikki's dad, when all he did was not propose to a woman he doesn't love, which is the very least he could do. Yes, I know some leads have proposed without any real love, but I dislike most leads of this show anyway, so I'm not gonna use them as a yardstick for respectable behaviour. I just see a lot of manipulation on JPG's part and it's something I despise.

mindless wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:
I just wanted to point out, if you watch JPG's HTD episode, he is honoring her dad's wishes for that.

My point about bringing Nikki's dad up was that if Juan Pablo didn't love Nikki, then he had no business proposing anyway. If her dad hadn't said anything about it, then would he have proposed? I don't think so, or at least I hope he wouldn't have. If he had, then he would've at least had to lie about loving her since you don't propose marriage to someone with "I like you a lot". He didn't (doesn't) love her and that's the only reason for not proposing to her and that's perfectly fine. But he knew people disliked him so he tried to make himself look better by saying he didn't propose out of respect for Nikki's dad. He only said it to make himself look better and I find that manipulative. I hate seeing people praise him for respecting Nikki's dad, when all he did was not propose to a woman he doesn't love, which is the very least he could do. Yes, I know some leads have proposed without any real love, but I dislike most leads of this show anyway, so I'm not gonna use them as a yardstick for respectable behaviour. I just see a lot of manipulation on JPG's part and it's something I despise.

ITA. JPG used everything he could as an excuse to make himself look good....it was the dad....it was the culture...it was the blah, blah, blah. I cannot believe that many people are falling for it.

I will give him credit for NOT proposing on the show, because I think it's way too soon to propose after 3 dates. I think the couples should just  promise to date after the show, but an engagement so quickly without knowing each other in the outside world is ridiculous. What if the guy  is a cheapskate, and you like to spend? THAT's a big issues in marriages. You don't know this being in the bubble because everything is  served by ABC.

There is nothing wrong with going on this show and having fun. But when real feelings are involved the game changes. Out of respect, and being a decent human being, you owe each other honesty. The sooner the better. IF JPG is serious, and truly doesn't know what his problem is then he should go see a therapist (off cameras) so that he can figure himself out. I don't see that, so in my eyes he has an ulterior motive-seeking fame on TV and using excuses.

JPG is torturing Nikki with his excuses, and every time he shows her some affection she thinks TODAY will be the day he says ILY. SICK. This keeps the cameras and fame or infamy going. People keep following their "relationship" in hopes of getting a happily ever after from them. JPG found a different way to stay in the spotlight, and viewers are falling for it.