Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

Moved from the fan thread.

Ariela wrote:

see2love wrote:I am of a differing opinion. While i think the whole cultural thing is a big BS, i dont think the control is to milk her or for fame. He is holding that back to protect himself. He has the world against him and Nikki in his corner, he loves her and shows it but probably thinks if he says it he would be all exposed and vulnerable and will not be in control of Nikki staying or leaving him. Therapy will help him to give all and not hold on to that just because he is afraid of getting hurt. Lets be honest, he does love her. My only issue with him is the way he says things and hopefully he is working on that as well

Bolded: Although you make a good argument, I cannot think the way you do, because if that were the case, he could have told her ILY during the Bach when he held all the cards. The WOMEN were chasing him, so he wasn't thinking on such a high level about the leaving or staying thing.

EVERYBODY is afraid of getting hurt  :Nod:
Why is HE special???

Maybe the therapist will give him an easy way out and say what YOU are saying so he gets a FREE pass, again. This time he looks like the victim.
Men, generally do not like to be vulnerable....However, IMO the person who controls (aside from a personality trait) the dating situation is the one who is NOT in love as much as their partner. A wise friend of mine said: Always make sure that the guy loves you more than you love him. This way he'll cater to YOU, and not the other way around. We can color the JPG/Nikki situation any way we want to, but IF it quacks like a duck....

On another note: I'm sure he likes her and cares about her, has a good time with her, BUT he's finding flaws (i.e. she's his child), rather than
giving her credit for being patient with him, and falling deeper for her. I see a TICK TOCK situation here; it's matter of time that they'll go their ways.

That doesn't mean that either one is a bad person. Perhaps, JPG doesn't understand why the hesitation on his part, because Nikki is a great girl...but maybe NOT for him.

Admin wrote:Moved from the fan thread.

Ariela wrote:

see2love wrote:I am of a differing opinion. While i think the whole cultural thing is a big BS, i dont think the control is to milk her or for fame. He is holding that back to protect himself. He has the world against him and Nikki in his corner, he loves her and shows it but probably thinks if he says it he would be all exposed and vulnerable and will not be in control of Nikki staying or leaving him. Therapy will help him to give all and not hold on to that just because he is afraid of getting hurt. Lets be honest, he does love her. My only issue with him is the way he says things and hopefully he is working on that as well

Bolded: Although you make a good argument, I cannot think the way you do, because if that were the case, he could have told her ILY during the Bach when he held all the cards. The WOMEN were chasing him, so he wasn't thinking on such a high level about the leaving or staying thing.

EVERYBODY is afraid of getting hurt  :Nod:
Why is HE special???

Maybe the therapist will give him an easy way out and say what YOU are saying so he gets a FREE pass, again. This time he looks like the victim.
Men, generally do not like to be vulnerable....However, IMO the person who controls (aside from a personality trait) the dating situation is the one who is NOT in love as much as their partner. A wise friend of mine said: Always make sure that the guy loves you more than you love him. This way he'll cater to YOU, and not the other way around. We can color the JPG/Nikki situation any way we want to, but IF it quacks like a duck....

On another note: I'm sure he likes her and cares about her, has a good time with her, BUT he's finding flaws (i.e. she's his child), rather than giving her credit for being patient with him, and falling deeper for her. I see a TICK TOCK situation here; it's matter of time that they'll go their ways.

That doesn't mean that either one is a bad person. Perhaps, JPG doesn't understand why the hesitation on his part, because Nikki is a great girl...but maybe NOT for him.

I think the highlighted statement is the ding, ding, ding statement about this relationship. I don't see him giving her any credit for what she has put up as a result of his behaviour. It's all about how everything effects him and he doesn't seem to really care about the negative attention that has come their way as a result. Nikki on the other hand is clearly bothered and takes it to heart, hence her behaviour on the AFTR, answering the critics on her SM and even deleting her twitter. What I don't understand, is why would a seemingly strong, intelligent woman continue to stay? I would have been long gone, but then, I wouldn't have been there in the first place!

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:ITA with this post. And I know this isn't a popular opinion but I loved Andi's smackdown to him after their FS because she didn't just stand up for herself, she REALLY stood up for herself and for his behavior in general. He tried to treat her like a little kid, playing her hair, etc., and she showed that not only can she take him on with no fear, but she'll beat him at his own game. I pretty much cheered for her, regardless of whether or not I initially agreed with her actions, just the fact that she did it for all the women on that season was awesome to me.

IA that Nikki is never going to "win" with him and he thinks she's a little girl that needs to be handled and told to stop whining. So sad. I don't know what her friends and family must think.

Andi stood up for a principle - she was expecting that JPG was making an honest attempt to select someone to begin a legitimate relationship with and was disillusioned when she found out that he had made little or no effort to get to know her. I totally understand why the show presented that smackdown the way they did because it wasn't only Andi that JPG had made little effort to get to know - it was Clare also ("I don't know you but ...") and for that matter, as we are seeing on CT, he's made little effort to get to know Nikki as well even months later. Andi was just the way they chose to present a common "issue" that affected all of the final 3 on that season.

I know that some feel their appearance on CT is a step to improve their relationship but ... really???? I believe in therapy for couples but that is not what CT is about. It's a reality TV show and it depends on drama to attract viewers (like all reality TV shows do) and if there isn't enough drama already, they will manufacture it. Group therapy? Has anyone actually considered the group? A porn star, someone from Jersey Shore, an ex Big Brother reality TV "star", a rap music bad-boy with past child support issues? Some group to learn about relationships from. I have trouble seeing this as a legitimate effort to improve their relationship; it just seems more like an effort to collect a paycheck by being outrageous on another reality TV show along with other couples also trying to be outrageous.

Feel free to hate on JPG all you want. BUT Andi wasn't standing up for anyone. She was auditioning to be the bachelorette, pure and simple. She wanted to be the next lead and did what the producers wanted to get the job.

JPG has been completely respectful to Andi since the show and took responsibility for everything he did wrong on his season. Can Andi say the same thing.

As for CT, I will wait and see how it turns out. I adore Nikki, but no one is perfect. JPG is okay. I hope they work through their issues. Again, as the therapist said it is a young relationship.

I will agree that JPG was a bad lead for the bachelor as he is unwilling to play TPTB's games.

stuckinsc wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:ITA with this post. And I know this isn't a popular opinion but I loved Andi's smackdown to him after their FS because she didn't just stand up for herself, she REALLY stood up for herself and for his behavior in general. He tried to treat her like a little kid, playing her hair, etc., and she showed that not only can she take him on with no fear, but she'll beat him at his own game. I pretty much cheered for her, regardless of whether or not I initially agreed with her actions, just the fact that she did it for all the women on that season was awesome to me.

IA that Nikki is never going to "win" with him and he thinks she's a little girl that needs to be handled and told to stop whining. So sad. I don't know what her friends and family must think.

Andi stood up for a principle - she was expecting that JPG was making an honest attempt to select someone to begin a legitimate relationship with and was disillusioned when she found out that he had made little or no effort to get to know her. I totally understand why the show presented that smackdown the way they did because it wasn't only Andi that JPG had made little effort to get to know - it was Clare also ("I don't know you but ...") and for that matter, as we are seeing on CT, he's made little effort to get to know Nikki as well even months later. Andi was just the way they chose to present a common "issue" that affected all of the final 3 on that season.

I know that some feel their appearance on CT is a step to improve their relationship but ... really???? I believe in therapy for couples but that is not what CT is about. It's a reality TV show and it depends on drama to attract viewers (like all reality TV shows do) and if there isn't enough drama already, they will manufacture it. Group therapy? Has anyone actually considered the group? A porn star, someone from Jersey Shore, an ex Big Brother reality TV "star", a rap music bad-boy with past child support issues? Some group to learn about relationships from. I have trouble seeing this as a legitimate effort to improve their relationship; it just seems more like an effort to collect a paycheck by being outrageous on another reality TV show along with other couples also trying to be outrageous.

Feel free to hate on JPG all you want.  BUT Andi wasn't standing up for anyone.  She was auditioning to be the bachelorette, pure and simple.  She wanted to be the next lead and did what the producers wanted to get the job.

JPG has been completely respectful to Andi since the show and took responsibility for everything he did wrong on his season.  Can Andi say the same thing.

As for CT, I will wait and see how it turns out.  I adore Nikki, but no one is perfect.  JPG is okay.  I hope they work through their issues.  Again, as the therapist said it is a young relationship.  

I will agree that JPG was a bad lead for the bachelor as he is unwilling to play TPTB's games.

Great Post ....

stuckinsc wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:ITA with this post. And I know this isn't a popular opinion but I loved Andi's smackdown to him after their FS because she didn't just stand up for herself, she REALLY stood up for herself and for his behavior in general. He tried to treat her like a little kid, playing her hair, etc., and she showed that not only can she take him on with no fear, but she'll beat him at his own game. I pretty much cheered for her, regardless of whether or not I initially agreed with her actions, just the fact that she did it for all the women on that season was awesome to me.

IA that Nikki is never going to "win" with him and he thinks she's a little girl that needs to be handled and told to stop whining. So sad. I don't know what her friends and family must think.

Andi stood up for a principle - she was expecting that JPG was making an honest attempt to select someone to begin a legitimate relationship with and was disillusioned when she found out that he had made little or no effort to get to know her. I totally understand why the show presented that smackdown the way they did because it wasn't only Andi that JPG had made little effort to get to know - it was Clare also ("I don't know you but ...") and for that matter, as we are seeing on CT, he's made little effort to get to know Nikki as well even months later. Andi was just the way they chose to present a common "issue" that affected all of the final 3 on that season.

I know that some feel their appearance on CT is a step to improve their relationship but ... really???? I believe in therapy for couples but that is not what CT is about. It's a reality TV show and it depends on drama to attract viewers (like all reality TV shows do) and if there isn't enough drama already, they will manufacture it. Group therapy? Has anyone actually considered the group? A porn star, someone from Jersey Shore, an ex Big Brother reality TV "star", a rap music bad-boy with past child support issues? Some group to learn about relationships from. I have trouble seeing this as a legitimate effort to improve their relationship; it just seems more like an effort to collect a paycheck by being outrageous on another reality TV show along with other couples also trying to be outrageous.

Feel free to hate on JPG all you want.  BUT Andi wasn't standing up for anyone.  She was auditioning to be the bachelorette, pure and simple.  She wanted to be the next lead and did what the producers wanted to get the job.

JPG has been completely respectful to Andi since the show and took responsibility for everything he did wrong on his season.  Can Andi say the same thing.

As for CT, I will wait and see how it turns out.  I adore Nikki, but no one is perfect.  JPG is okay.  I hope they work through their issues.  Again, as the therapist said it is a young relationship.  

I will agree that JPG was a bad lead for the bachelor as he is unwilling to play TPTB's games.

Eh, people give him way too much credit for this. The only reason that he didn't play TPTB's games was because he didn't get their support during the "gays are pervert" comment and because he didn't get DWTS. If he had, I can almost guarantee you he would have been telling everyone how in love he was at the ATFR. Personally, I think that he was a bad Bachelor because he was a jerk, who didn't care about listening to any of the women, except for Nikki.  He was basically Ben 2.0, IMHO.

Also, Andi absolutely did what she did to become the next Bachelorette; that doesn't mean that there wasn't any truth in it, though. She also has said in her post-Bachelorette interviews that she should have left a lot sooner since she wasn't into the guy and she was probably a bit too harsh with him. I personally don't think that she was.

Sprite wrote:

Admin wrote:Moved from the fan thread.

Ariela wrote:

Bolded: Although you make a good argument, I cannot think the way you do, because if that were the case, he could have told her ILY during the Bach when he held all the cards. The WOMEN were chasing him, so he wasn't thinking on such a high level about the leaving or staying thing.

EVERYBODY is afraid of getting hurt  :Nod:
Why is HE special???

Maybe the therapist will give him an easy way out and say what YOU are saying so he gets a FREE pass, again. This time he looks like the victim.
Men, generally do not like to be vulnerable....However, IMO the person who controls (aside from a personality trait) the dating situation is the one who is NOT in love as much as their partner. A wise friend of mine said: Always make sure that the guy loves you more than you love him. This way he'll cater to YOU, and not the other way around. We can color the JPG/Nikki situation any way we want to, but IF it quacks like a duck....

On another note: I'm sure he likes her and cares about her, has a good time with her, BUT he's finding flaws (i.e. she's his child), rather than giving her credit for being patient with him, and falling deeper for her. I see a TICK TOCK situation here; it's matter of time that they'll go their ways.

That doesn't mean that either one is a bad person. Perhaps, JPG doesn't understand why the hesitation on his part, because Nikki is a great girl...but maybe NOT for him.

I think the highlighted statement is the ding, ding, ding statement about this relationship. I don't see him giving her any credit for what she has put up as a result of his behaviour. It's all about how everything effects him and he doesn't seem to really care about the negative attention that has come their way as a result. Nikki on the other hand is clearly bothered and takes it to heart, hence her behaviour on the AFTR, answering the critics on her SM and even deleting her twitter. What I don't understand, is why would a seemingly strong, intelligent woman continue to stay? I would have been long gone, but then, I wouldn't have been there in the first place!

Great post sprite! Totally agree. Definitely think it is a tick-tock situation. Both are good people though....

I am anxious to see what unfolds in future episodes. Will there be resolution for these two, or will nothing change??

stuckinsc wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:ITA with this post. And I know this isn't a popular opinion but I loved Andi's smackdown to him after their FS because she didn't just stand up for herself, she REALLY stood up for herself and for his behavior in general. He tried to treat her like a little kid, playing her hair, etc., and she showed that not only can she take him on with no fear, but she'll beat him at his own game. I pretty much cheered for her, regardless of whether or not I initially agreed with her actions, just the fact that she did it for all the women on that season was awesome to me.

IA that Nikki is never going to "win" with him and he thinks she's a little girl that needs to be handled and told to stop whining. So sad. I don't know what her friends and family must think.

Andi stood up for a principle - she was expecting that JPG was making an honest attempt to select someone to begin a legitimate relationship with and was disillusioned when she found out that he had made little or no effort to get to know her. I totally understand why the show presented that smackdown the way they did because it wasn't only Andi that JPG had made little effort to get to know - it was Clare also ("I don't know you but ...") and for that matter, as we are seeing on CT, he's made little effort to get to know Nikki as well even months later. Andi was just the way they chose to present a common "issue" that affected all of the final 3 on that season.

I know that some feel their appearance on CT is a step to improve their relationship but ... really???? I believe in therapy for couples but that is not what CT is about. It's a reality TV show and it depends on drama to attract viewers (like all reality TV shows do) and if there isn't enough drama already, they will manufacture it. Group therapy? Has anyone actually considered the group? A porn star, someone from Jersey Shore, an ex Big Brother reality TV "star", a rap music bad-boy with past child support issues? Some group to learn about relationships from. I have trouble seeing this as a legitimate effort to improve their relationship; it just seems more like an effort to collect a paycheck by being outrageous on another reality TV show along with other couples also trying to be outrageous.

Feel free to hate on JPG all you want.  BUT Andi wasn't standing up for anyone.  She was auditioning to be the bachelorette, pure and simple.  She wanted to be the next lead and did what the producers wanted to get the job.

JPG has been completely respectful to Andi since the show and took responsibility for everything he did wrong on his season.  Can Andi say the same thing.

As for CT, I will wait and see how it turns out.  I adore Nikki, but no one is perfect.  JPG is okay.  I hope they work through their issues.  Again, as the therapist said it is a young relationship.  

I will agree that JPG was a bad lead for the bachelor as he is unwilling to play TPTB's games.

JuanPa wasn't a bad lead because he was unwilling to play TPTB's games. He was a bad lead because he's a jerk who sucked at communicating, had endless excuses for his behavior, and treated some of the girls poorly.

soccermom333 wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Admin wrote:Moved from the fan thread.

I think the highlighted statement is the ding, ding, ding statement about this relationship. I don't see him giving her any credit for what she has put up as a result of his behaviour. It's all about how everything effects him and he doesn't seem to really care about the negative attention that has come their way as a result. Nikki on the other hand is clearly bothered and takes it to heart, hence her behaviour on the AFTR, answering the critics on her SM and even deleting her twitter. What I don't understand, is why would a seemingly strong, intelligent woman continue to stay? I would have been long gone, but then, I wouldn't have been there in the first place!

Great post sprite!  Totally agree.  Definitely think it is a tick-tock situation.  Both are good people though....

I am anxious to see what unfolds in future episodes.  Will there be resolution for these two, or will nothing change??  

I suspect there will be some kind of resolution to tie up the show plot line that is laid out for them, but unless he tells her he loves her on the show and proposes, I think it will be just a matter of time. I just don't see him as invested in this as she seems and honestly, it is starting to make her look bad/desperate/silly/stupid for sticking around. Maybe I am way off base, but I'm usually not. We shall see. The pattern seems to be to break up during the following season, so some time during Chris' run, there may be a quiet announcement??? I wouldn't bet against it.

In addition to the above reasons, IMHO,  Jpa was a bad lead because he was lazy, plain and simple.  Being a good lead takes a lot of hard work (just ask the previous leads), and the most important requirement for the "job" is you really really want to find your mate.  Yes, you will get paid because it's a JOB.  And you do have boss/bosses (TPTB) hence you have to co-operate with them to produce the show.  And you have to honor your contract+agreements.  And you have to suck it in ,if you don't like the job when the going gets tough.  And you can't blame your boss because you don't understand the concept of the show. And you have to get to know the girls who you're supposed to date.. on and on...

If I were his boss,  I'd fire him right on the spot,  but I guess the show still had to go on, no matter what.

umngirl wrote:
JuanPa wasn't a bad lead because he was unwilling to play TPTB's games. He was a bad lead because he's a jerk who sucked at communicating, had endless excuses for his behavior, and treated some of the girls poorly.

My thoughts exactly. I really don't care about him not proposing or saying ILY, because frankly I think everyone on this franchise would be better off saying "I like you a lot, let's see where this goes". It's how he treated the women, especially Clare and even Nikki. On ATFR she came on stage sounding really positive about their relationship, yet Juan Pablo wouldn't even give her any praise. Forget the ILY, he could've at least said what an amazing woman she is and that he was lucky to find her, but no, he was too busy being a petulant child, because he didn't get his dancing gig. She got to sit there mute between him and CH while they bickered about whether or not he loves her. I felt so bad for her! Basically the only thing he could be bothered to say was that they're in a relationship, kind of like "draw your own conclusions". I just thought it was really inconsiderate towards her. You don't put someone you care about in that situation. You just don't.

And then on this show months later, he's still saying inconsiderate things about her and infront of her, to people he doesn't even know. And she thinks he does love her? How does he show it with actions exactly? By doing a few romantic things any man courting a woman does? That doesn't mean much. It makes me wonder if she's ever really been loved in a relationship, because I remember how I used to convince myself that a guy loves me, when they clearly didn't. That's when I was around 20 though and didn't know any better. I really don't trust her judgement on the matter, since I've seen no proof of his feelings with my own eyes. And if he did actually love her then there's no excuse for not saying it. He's really into excuses anyway, like not proposing out of respect for Nikki's dad. Give me a break. Of course he shouldn't propose until he knows he loves her, what's her dad got to do with it? Why even bring him up unless it's to score some brownie points? It's just illogical.

mindless wrote:

umngirl wrote:
JuanPa wasn't a bad lead because he was unwilling to play TPTB's games. He was a bad lead because he's a jerk who sucked at communicating, had endless excuses for his behavior, and treated some of the girls poorly.

My thoughts exactly. I really don't care about him not proposing or saying ILY, because frankly I think everyone on this franchise would be better off saying "I like you a lot, let's see where this goes". It's how he treated the women, especially Clare and even Nikki. On ATFR she came on stage sounding really positive about their relationship, yet Juan Pablo wouldn't even give her any praise. Forget the ILY, he could've at least said what an amazing woman she is and that he was lucky to find her, but no, he was too busy being a petulant child, because he didn't get his dancing gig. She got to sit there mute between him and CH while they bickered about whether or not he loves her. I felt so bad for her! Basically the only thing he could be bothered to say was that they're in a relationship, kind of like "draw your own conclusions". I just thought it was really inconsiderate towards her. You don't put someone you care about in that situation. You just don't.

And then on this show months later, he's still saying inconsiderate things about her and infront of her, to people he doesn't even know. And she thinks he does love her? How does he show it with actions exactly? By doing a few romantic things any man courting a woman does? That doesn't mean much. It makes me wonder if she's ever really been loved in a relationship, because I remember how I used to convince myself that a guy loves me, when they clearly didn't. That's when I was around 20 though and didn't know any better. I really don't trust her judgement on the matter, since I've seen no proof of his feelings with my own eyes. And if he did actually love her then there's no excuse for not saying it. He's really into excuses anyway, like not proposing out of respect for Nikki's dad. Give me a break. Of course he shouldn't propose until he knows he loves her, what's her dad got to do with it? Why even bring him up unless it's to score some brownie points? It's just illogical.  

Very well said, mindless. This is the first time I feel sorry for the F1 instead of F2.

umngirl wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

Andi stood up for a principle - she was expecting that JPG was making an honest attempt to select someone to begin a legitimate relationship with and was disillusioned when she found out that he had made little or no effort to get to know her. I totally understand why the show presented that smackdown the way they did because it wasn't only Andi that JPG had made little effort to get to know - it was Clare also ("I don't know you but ...") and for that matter, as we are seeing on CT, he's made little effort to get to know Nikki as well even months later. Andi was just the way they chose to present a common "issue" that affected all of the final 3 on that season.

I know that some feel their appearance on CT is a step to improve their relationship but ... really???? I believe in therapy for couples but that is not what CT is about. It's a reality TV show and it depends on drama to attract viewers (like all reality TV shows do) and if there isn't enough drama already, they will manufacture it. Group therapy? Has anyone actually considered the group? A porn star, someone from Jersey Shore, an ex Big Brother reality TV "star", a rap music bad-boy with past child support issues? Some group to learn about relationships from. I have trouble seeing this as a legitimate effort to improve their relationship; it just seems more like an effort to collect a paycheck by being outrageous on another reality TV show along with other couples also trying to be outrageous.

Feel free to hate on JPG all you want.  BUT Andi wasn't standing up for anyone.  She was auditioning to be the bachelorette, pure and simple.  She wanted to be the next lead and did what the producers wanted to get the job.

JPG has been completely respectful to Andi since the show and took responsibility for everything he did wrong on his season.  Can Andi say the same thing.

As for CT, I will wait and see how it turns out.  I adore Nikki, but no one is perfect.  JPG is okay.  I hope they work through their issues.  Again, as the therapist said it is a young relationship.  

I will agree that JPG was a bad lead for the bachelor as he is unwilling to play TPTB's games.

JuanPa wasn't a bad lead because he was unwilling to play TPTB's games. He was a bad lead because he's a jerk who sucked at communicating, had endless excuses for his behavior, and treated some of the girls poorly.

100%. I think this is all that needs to be said. Plus, lets not forget, wasn't there some some things floating around that Juan Pablo was going to propose to Nikki on the ATFR and once he found out he wasn't going to be on DWTS he backed out of it because he was pissed and felt like it was productions fault? That man would have gladly played along with their games if he got everything his way, which he clearly did not.