Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Lucas15]

But once she learned that Josh was in love with her and wanted to marry her the game totally changed for her and that uncertainty was gone and I believe that totally changed her perspective on how she felt about Josh and very possibly Nick as well; that didn't happen until after her FD with Nick.

This is like  saying that she is just the kind of woman who needs an "insurance"  from people she claimed to love.

I'm sorry because I don't think I explained myself very well so let me try a little harder.

When you are in a dating situation and are exploring your relationship with someone you are really going to be assessing what kind of a connection you have with that person but if you want to avoid getting hurt you also need to be prepared to disconnect from that person if it turns out that your long term goals and values don't match. If you fail to do that you may find yourself in so deep that when you have to disconnect (or when a disconnect is forced on you) it's very painful. This was, IMHO, the situatioh Des found herself in with Brooks. This was also exactly the situation the producers were urging Andi to not let happen so in addition to any natural preservation instincts she had she also had producer manipulation to contend with. All the time she was fearing that her connection to Josh was too good to be true her nest though was how to deal with the situation should it turn out to not be true. This was the environment Andi was in up until her FD with Josh.

Josh had told her that the next time he told a girl he was in love with her it would be the girl he was going to marry and prior to the FD he had not told Andi he was in love with her so she was always prepared to disconnect from Josh. As soon as Josh told her he was in love with her and wanted to marry her that completely changed things; she no longer needed to be prepared to disconnect because she now had an open pathway to "permanence" and once she no longer had to concern herself about a possible disconnect and could accept the future she realized that what she had been feeling all along was love. And this is exactly what she said - she came to realize late in the process that what she had been feeling was love but prior to the FD with Josh she could not say that.

You can view this as the type of girl who needs "insurance" and that's your right. I call it a very smart way to stay open for love while at the same time protect yourself emotionally.

And just for a little grain of reality here,  Can you actually really bed two different people in one week and say to someone I only love you and only you since the first time I saw you?

I don't think you can apply any normal reality to this process because it is so different in such an absurd way from real life "normality". In real life people seldom date multiple people at the same time and even when they do it's not on a strict time frame for decision making as to which person to keep and which person to reject. In real life I would say you probably would never bed two different people in one week in the first place and mosr certainly would not be looking at an engagement a week later. But in this show that's exactly what you have to do. You have to mix more than a few grains of "unreal" to any grains of reality.

[stuckinsc]

Nick is pretty much hanging out in Chicago.

So that maybe we can discuss something Nick has done in the past four weeks at least, here are his latest two tweets from today.


 Nick Viall  @viallnicholas28    ·     5h
So fascinating how often hate is mistaken for the opposite of love, when in actuality the opposite of love is indifference. #TheMoreYouKnow

 Nick Viall  @viallnicholas28    ·     9h
Mother Nature is really being a dick lately in Chicago.

Seems like everyone east of the Mississippi is complaining about the weather the last couple of days.

[ironcat]

I kind of remember Emily getting criticized quite a bit for being cold to Arie at ATFR, as well as for not even caring enough to read his journal and making Jef do her dirty work because biotch couldn't be bothered. And I still don't think any rejected suitor has gone nearly as far as Nick has (or at least been presented as such) to try to reverse the lead's decision.

[BohemianNika]

I agree that some of Nick's behavior was VERY producer driven. My point is, they probably didn't let Andi in on the secret in hopes to get some juicy reaction from her on ATFR.

I know,   again.

[Lucas15]

Andi had a horrible attitude the second she stepped out on the stage with Nick during ATFR.

Obviously for as many people as watched the ATFR you may have just as many different perceptions but "horrible attitude" was most definitely not my perception. When Andi walked on stage she first went to Nick and gave him a hug and MAYBE a small "kiss" (I couldn't be sure of this). She embraced him with both of her arms although Nick didn't reciprocate. His right arm went around her but his left hung limply at his side. She then gave CH a similar greeting (but with an obvious little kiss) and sat down, facing Nick, back to CH and side to the camera. Nick was on her left and she crossed her right leg over her left - towards Nick. A woman will often cross their legs "away" from someone she is uncomfortable being with - Emily did that to Brad on their ATFR - but crossing her legs towards someone usually indicates a comfort towards that person with no perceived need to protect herself from that person. As Nick talked, Andi looked at him and frequently nodded her head as in "I hear and understand what you've said" though not necessarily agreeing with it. She read as someone really being attentive and listening with an attempt to understand everything Nick was saying.She did not use her "grumpy cat face" at any time during the conversation. I would say she was guarded (ie cautious) but in no way did I see her "spitting vinegar". She was not particularly nervous, just more intent on being a good listener and making sure she held good eye contact. She did this for the entire time Nick was talking which was actually a total of 61 seconds, at which time Nick admitted that he thought he'd have more to say but didn't.

At this point CH asks Nick "You wanna ask her anything?" Now when I watched this live I didn't think anything more other than it seemed a slightly odd question but in light of what happened later I think CH was trying to prompt Nick to ask the question that had possibly been discussed with producers beforehand.

Nick talked for about another minute and finally said that he is eternally grateful to have learned that he can feel that great love and is hopeful that it's out there for him. Now for the first time Andi talks, saying that it is out there and that he will find it and that she hopes that he has learned that he can get to that point and that he will find that great love, knowing that "I can't give that to you".

Nick comes back and says "Or feeling that you did". Again Andi doesn't respond but goes back into attentive mode, as she had been before. Nick runs out of more things to say. At which point CH says to Andi "I know you and Nick had a great relationship and you and I talked about that, but did you love him - or parts of him?"

I can't really blame CH - he was only doing his job but they had sent a film crew and producer to Milwaukee to film Nick and his mother and had spent at this point 26 minutes of live TV time and had no drama at all; whatever they were expecting it seemed to me that they hadn't gotten it and the whole thing was so anticlimactic that the show just looked stupid.

Things went pretty sideways after this; in her answer she says she did have a great relationship with Nick and that she 100% believes that if she had it all to do all over again she would still have a great relationship with Nick. She admits that "it sounds harsh to say but how do you compete with a greater relationship". There was nothing wrong with their relationship but "something else was more right". She said it's tough to say face to face and perhaps she should have said it earlier but at the end of the day "that is the truth". And that's when she hit a nerve. CH again steps in and asks "Nick - what are you thinking?"

It takes Nick 52 second to get out "the question" but before he even completes it Andi has started to shift her demeanor and that's the first time she turns cold - not before.

[Lucas15]

I agree that some of Nick's behavior was VERY producer driven. My point is, they probably didn't let Andi in on the secret in hopes to get some juicy reaction from her on ATFR.

I know,   again.

I totally agree which is why I posted what I did a few minutes ago. If you follow my post (even without watching the scene) you can see exactly where CH stepped in to stir the pot to, IMHO, get exactly what they got. And of course they didn't let Andi in on the secret because what they want is that "spontaneous / real" response - that's how they get these things on film. They went to an almost unprecedented length to get drama between F2 and the lead on the ATFR and if CH hadn't stepped in they would have gotten nothing at all.

[Ash2214]

Andi had a horrible attitude the second she stepped out on the stage with Nick during ATFR.

Obviously for as many people as watched the ATFR you may have just as many different perceptions but "horrible attitude" was most definitely not my perception. When Andi walked on stage she first went to Nick and gave him a hug and MAYBE a small "kiss" (I couldn't be sure of this). She embraced him with both of her arms although Nick didn't reciprocate. His right arm went around her but his left hung limply at his side. She then gave CH a similar greeting (but with an obvious little kiss) and sat down, facing Nick, back to CH and side to the camera. Nick was on her left and she crossed her right leg over her left - towards Nick. A woman will often cross their legs "away" from someone she is uncomfortable being with - Emily did that to Brad on their ATFR - but crossing her legs towards someone usually indicates a comfort towards that person with no perceived need to protect herself from that person. As Nick talked, Andi looked at him and frequently nodded her head as in "I hear and understand what you've said" though not necessarily agreeing with it. She read as someone really being attentive and listening with an attempt to understand everything Nick was saying.She did not use her "grumpy cat face" at any time during the conversation. I would say she was guarded (ie cautious) but in no way did I see her "spitting vinegar". She was not particularly nervous, just more intent on being a good listener and making sure she held good eye contact. She did this for the entire time Nick was talking which was actually a total of 61 seconds, at which time Nick admitted that he thought he'd have more to say but didn't.

At this point CH asks Nick "You wanna ask her anything?" Now when I watched this live I didn't think anything more other than it seemed a slightly odd question but in light of what happened later I think CH was trying to prompt Nick to ask the question that had possibly been discussed with producers beforehand.

Nick talked for about another minute and finally said that he is eternally grateful to have learned that he can feel that great love and is hopeful that it's out there for him. Now for the first time Andi talks, saying that it is out there and that he will find it and that she hopes that he has learned that he can get to that point and that he will find that great love, knowing that "I can't give that to you".

Nick comes back and says "Or feeling that you did". Again Andi doesn't respond but goes back into attentive mode, as she had been before. Nick runs out of more things to say. At which point CH says to Andi "I know you and Nick had a great relationship and you and I talked about that, but did you love him - or parts of him?"

I can't really blame CH - he was only doing his job but they had sent a film crew and producer to Milwaukee to film Nick and his mother and had spent at this point 26 minutes of live TV time and had no drama at all; whatever they were expecting it seemed to me that they hadn't gotten it and the whole thing was so anticlimactic that the show just looked stupid.

Things went pretty sideways after this; in her answer she says she did have a great relationship with Nick and that she 100% believes that if she had it all to do all over again she would still have a great relationship with Nick. She admits that "it sounds harsh to say but how do you compete with a greater relationship". There was nothing wrong with their relationship but "something else was more right". She said it's tough to say face to face and perhaps she should have said it earlier but at the end of the day "that is the truth". And that's when she hit a nerve. CH again steps in and asks "Nick - what are you thinking?"

It takes Nick 52 second to get out "the question" but before he even completes it Andi has started to shift her demeanor and that's the first time she turns cold - not before.

Extremely well said, Lucas. And even when Nick asks her that question and her demeanor turns cold, she still says "I respect you and I respected our relationship."

[mathwiz37]

Andi had a horrible attitude the second she stepped out on the stage with Nick during ATFR.

Obviously for as many people as watched the ATFR you may have just as many different perceptions but "horrible attitude" was most definitely not my perception. When Andi walked on stage she first went to Nick and gave him a hug and MAYBE a small "kiss" (I couldn't be sure of this). She embraced him with both of her arms although Nick didn't reciprocate. His right arm went around her but his left hung limply at his side. She then gave CH a similar greeting (but with an obvious little kiss) and sat down, facing Nick, back to CH and side to the camera. Nick was on her left and she crossed her right leg over her left - towards Nick. A woman will often cross their legs "away" from someone she is uncomfortable being with - Emily did that to Brad on their ATFR - but crossing her legs towards someone usually indicates a comfort towards that person with no perceived need to protect herself from that person. As Nick talked, Andi looked at him and frequently nodded her head as in "I hear and understand what you've said" though not necessarily agreeing with it. She read as someone really being attentive and listening with an attempt to understand everything Nick was saying.She did not use her "grumpy cat face" at any time during the conversation. I would say she was guarded (ie cautious) but in no way did I see her "spitting vinegar". She was not particularly nervous, just more intent on being a good listener and making sure she held good eye contact. She did this for the entire time Nick was talking which was actually a total of 61 seconds, at which time Nick admitted that he thought he'd have more to say but didn't.

At this point CH asks Nick "You wanna ask her anything?" Now when I watched this live I didn't think anything more other than it seemed a slightly odd question but in light of what happened later I think CH was trying to prompt Nick to ask the question that had possibly been discussed with producers beforehand.

Nick talked for about another minute and finally said that he is eternally grateful to have learned that he can feel that great love and is hopeful that it's out there for him. Now for the first time Andi talks, saying that it is out there and that he will find it and that she hopes that he has learned that he can get to that point and that he will find that great love, knowing that "I can't give that to you".

Nick comes back and says "Or feeling that you did". Again Andi doesn't respond but goes back into attentive mode, as she had been before. Nick runs out of more things to say. At which point CH says to Andi "I know you and Nick had a great relationship and you and I talked about that, but did you love him - or parts of him?"

I can't really blame CH - he was only doing his job but they had sent a film crew and producer to Milwaukee to film Nick and his mother and had spent at this point 26 minutes of live TV time and had no drama at all; whatever they were expecting it seemed to me that they hadn't gotten it and the whole thing was so anticlimactic that the show just looked stupid.

Things went pretty sideways after this; in her answer she says she did have a great relationship with Nick and that she 100% believes that if she had it all to do all over again she would still have a great relationship with Nick. She admits that "it sounds harsh to say but how do you compete with a greater relationship". There was nothing wrong with their relationship but "something else was more right". She said it's tough to say face to face and perhaps she should have said it earlier but at the end of the day "that is the truth". And that's when she hit a nerve. CH again steps in and asks "Nick - what are you thinking?"

It takes Nick 52 second to get out "the question" but before he even completes it Andi has started to shift her demeanor and that's the first time she turns cold - not before.

  
Rarely respond, but I had to just say this is EXACTLY what I saw as I watched the ATFR. I've seen it more times than I'd like to admit --carefully following the expressions, responses, and words of Andi & Nick. I am biased of course -- I like Andi and I like that she picked Josh-- but I do not hate Nick, don't even dislike him. I saw Andi come out and try to be as attentive as possible as Nick struggled to get his thoughts out. Maybe she could have worded her response to CH differently to convey more sympathy, but IMO, I don't think she dismissed Nick or the relationship when she answered.

I totally believe CH prime purpose during that entire interview was to get that response from Nick by any means necessary.

[stuckinsc]

So I guess no one wants to discuss something new that Nick has done in the last four weeks?

[Ash2214]

So I guess no one wants to discuss something new that Nick has done in the last four weeks?

One of his tweets was basically from a song called Stubborn Love by The Lumineers. Seems like the guy has great taste in music.

[BohemianNika]

So I guess no one wants to discuss something new that Nick has done in the last four weeks?

Can't say I have any knowledge of the current weather in Chicago. I would love to visit though.

[stuckinsc]

So I guess no one wants to discuss something new that Nick has done in the last four weeks?

One of his tweets was basically from a song called Stubborn Love by The Lumineers. Seems like the guy has great taste in music.

Ash, try not to have a heart attack, but we agree! I have the Lumineers on my iPod.

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