Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[stuckinsc]

I liked Nick. I like him even more after the show. Half way through the show, I didn't want Andi to pick him because I didn't like her that much, and didn't think they were good fits.  I was one of the  Free Nick fans, along with stuck. However, that didn't mean I didn't enjoy watching them together on my TV, I had fun with other Nick Chicks, working to discover pro Nick clues through editing and SM. I was hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. So, I wasn't too surprised Josh was f1. In fact, I'd expected him to be f1. The biggest clue for me was his mom throwing the finale viewing party. So, to me, yes, Josh's family gave away the outcome; this is only my opinion and my opinion only.
So, my fav was not picked. I've never picked a winner. But, the fun for me is the process, the time I spent here discussing, speculating, and sleuthing with some wonderful posters. I know I will follow Nick for a while, then, if he stays off spotlight, my interest in him will gradually wean off. I will pick another fav, and the cycle will start again. Hopefully, one day, I will pick a F1. If not, hey, I will still have fun on this board.

sdmom. ... I have to agree w your comment on the Murray family SM.   While I thought Nick's video could go either way, it was their constant tweets revealing Josh f1 that I couldn't reconcile in my mind. So while I hoped for aNick F1 ending, I was not at all surprised w Josh F1.  Although, I so hoped Mura and Team Nick were right!    Post show, seeing more of Nick, I think her princess behavior would've driven him crazy. It is honestly not a slam against Andi, but it just seems to be who she is at this point. But the good part about that is Josh doesn't seem to mind.

I think Nick and Andi's over thinking everything would have driven both of them crazy. Everything works out for a reason.  Except for the tweet to Hy about hoping to meet his daughter I thought the Murrays stayed fairly quiet.  What Josh's mother put on FB just showed a proud mother which was no different than many other past contestants including Shay (Sean's sister).

Just to be fair, their was also the post about having one son drafted and another engaged that weekend. Otherwise I agree, she was a proud momma.

[b]

I never intended to start a debate about who's responsible for spoiling this season, so that's why I stated in my original post "it's my opinion and my opinion only".

Nor did I, just wanted to give my opinion earlier.  I must say it was a respectful debate.   

Perhaps if Elan had not been involved with 2 other airplane pranks, the controversy of whether the plane video of Nick was real would have been easier to dismiss.

Agreed.  

There has rarely been a season with more accumulated, diverse evidence of F1 identity, and yet the fan-base or the contrarians held out for another outcome.  It's laughable really -- Nick was "caught on tape" and that wasn't good enough.  The show / powers that be have new rules, different tolerances, for social media buzz and chatter related to show contestants during airing than they used to back when the clauses told the girls to delete or deactivate their MySpace accounts!  These contestants -- except for Nick (see above!) -- are largely playing by these new rules.

 
It may have been laughable that Nick supporters had a video and still wouldn't believe, but as others have mentioned it was suspicious given the Elan and RS possibilities.  The in your face SM clues from the Murray family surprised me....that tptb would allow that to continue.  Perhaps, from their side they viewed Nick as already letting the cat out of the bag, so they were going to have fun.  

There is a place, I hope, for everyone around here.

      GA you've done a great job managing this board!

[stuckinsc]

There has rarely been a season with more accumulated, diverse evidence of F1 identity, and yet the fan-base or the contrarians held out for another outcome.  It's laughable really -- Nick was "caught on tape" and that wasn't good enough.  

Also, I completely concur that Josh/family took way too much grief for "leaking" the ending, as compared to others in this or other seasons.   The F2 was in a public airport / airplane flight speaking loudly, for many minutes, about "after the final rose", the names, and all sorts of contractually protected data ... and Lauren Murray somehow ruined the season with some ambiguous posts/tweets supportive of her son?

The show / powers that be have new rules, different tolerances, for social media buzz and chatter related to show contestants during airing than they used to back when the clauses told the girls to delete or deactivate their MySpace accounts!  These contestants -- except for Nick (see above!) -- are largely playing by these new rules.  They accumulate followers/friends over the course of the show airing, and help with word of mouth marketing of the brand and individual episodes.  And sometimes, their posts cross the line of being like clues for the diehards, especially sleuthing boardie types.

Finally, US Weekly (which mostly has the facts straight over the years) and Life & Style basically also spoiled the season a few weeks out, by writing stories that left out the names Josh and Nick but otherwise completely spilled the beans.   The tabloids spilled the season as they almost always do.

Wishful or contrarian thinking abounds season after season among the show-obsessed boardies.  That will never change.  People just disregard whatever they don't want to believe.

I know you were pro-Josh and Andi. Some of us held out hope because we thought Josh deserved better than the way Andi treated us.

I consider myself fairly educated, but I could envision TPTB messing with RS for fun and having Nick do just what he did. Is it not the easiest explanation, but I know that TPTB and MF hate RS and that would have been a huge middle finger to RS.

Maybe it is my training to consider all sides of something and not just take things at face value, but to try to understand why they happen. I am not allowed to write for my dissertation. This happens, the end.

[Ash2214]

sdmom. ... I have to agree w your comment on the Murray family SM.   While I thought Nick's video could go either way, it was their constant tweets revealing Josh f1 that I couldn't reconcile in my mind. So while I hoped for aNick F1 ending, I was not at all surprised w Josh F1.  Although, I so hoped Mura and Team Nick were right!    Post show, seeing more of Nick, I think her princess behavior would've driven him crazy. It is honestly not a slam against Andi, but it just seems to be who she is at this point. But the good part about that is Josh doesn't seem to mind.

I think Nick and Andi's over thinking everything would have driven both of them crazy. Everything works out for a reason.  Except for the tweet to Hy about hoping to meet his daughter I thought the Murrays stayed fairly quiet.  What Josh's mother put on FB just showed a proud mother which was no different than many other past contestants including Shay (Sean's sister).

Just to be fair, their was also the post about having one son drafted and another engaged that weekend.  Otherwise I agree, she was a proud momma.

To be fair to someone that can't defend herself here, Lauren never said her son got engaged. She said that she couldn't believe there could be a possibility that one son could be engaged and the other could be drafted by a team in the NFL in a week. She never confirmed anything. She also posted that she had trust in God and that whatever the plan may be, she'll be happy for her boys. We knew from posters here Josh was in the F3. Just like someone who was not a Josh fan said, just because Lauren posted that her son could possibly be engaged in a week, didn't even necessarily mean he was in the F2 because production has been keeping the F3 in the same location.

[Alanna]

I never intended to start a debate about who's  responsible for spoiling this season, so that's why I stated in my original post "it's my opinion and my opinion only".
ITA with the above quote, and IMO that's what makes this board fun. When the show was airing, we had separate threads re. Pro-Josh & Pro-Nick clues. I hope we will continue this for the seasons to come.

Being tape recorded in a public place saying (in words or substance) "I just finished filming the Bachelorette, I met her parents, but she picked the other guy" can't really mean anything but ... just that!   Quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, has feathers and webbed feet and associates with ducks.  And boardies were able to fill hours and threads debating it.  Nothing wrong -- it's just a way to pass the time, but people find the "other" meaning, even when there is really no other way to rationally look at the evidence.  

Again, everyone comes to this board for their own reasons.  I was not one who disregarded the evidence, but chose to look beyond it.  For me, life is journey, not a destination (RW Emerson).... and my personal journey is about the love story.  

And honestly, even if the evidence is real, it didn’t actually guarantee a specific ending, since, like Mesnick, Andi could have changed her mind.  It’s not over till it’s over.... and personally, I’m still waiting for the happy ending to this particular tale...

I'm confused by this statement. Do you mean a happy ending for Nick or a happy ending for Nick and Andi? If it's the latter, I feel pretty confident in saying that imo, she will never, ever again interact with him regardless of what happens with Josh, let alone date him or pursue a romantic relationship. I don't blame her. JMO.

[Guest]

I think Nick and Andi's over thinking everything would have driven both of them crazy. Everything works out for a reason.  Except for the tweet to Hy about hoping to meet his daughter I thought the Murrays stayed fairly quiet.  What Josh's mother put on FB just showed a proud mother which was no different than many other past contestants including Shay (Sean's sister).

Just to be fair, their was also the post about having one son drafted and another engaged that weekend.  Otherwise I agree, she was a proud momma.

To be fair to someone that can't defend herself here, Lauren never said her son got engaged. She said that she couldn't believe there could be a possibility that one son could be engaged and the other could be drafted by a team in the NFL in a week. She never confirmed anything. We knew from posters here Josh was in the F3. Just like someone who was not a Josh fan said, just because Lauren posted that her son could possibly be engaged in a week, didn't even necessarily mean he was in the F2 because production has been keeping the F3 in the same location.

To me it seemed like ABC didn't care. The plane video was out so there wasn't much to hide. I mean, the photos that were shared from Belgium showed Andi and Josh all lovey dovey, HTD as well with the extra "rose scene".  They released the videoclip where Nick was talking about "Murray the dog" and Andi retweeted. She would never have retweeted that awkward scene if Nick was her chosen one. From HTD Andi posted a picture of her getting to know Sabel. IMO she would never have posted that on Instagram if Nick was F1.  I don't think many people knew about MM and what she was posting on Facebook. I wasn't aware of her existence until mid July although I was here lurking long before that. The last week before the finale MM posted things that very much supported Josh as F1, but by then most people already saw Josh as F1. JMO

[Ash2214]

Every year RS always releases his spoiler, but we're never given any sort of solidified proof. This year we got it through Nick's video. Prior to that, there were definitely some SM clues from family members about how far contestants were making it, but they never 100% confirmed anything.

The second RS released the videos of Nick, I knew the spoiler was legitimate. There would be way too much work and effort for production to pull that off. Also, once RS told everyone who gave it to him, there was not a single doubt in my mind and it just solidified it even more. Was production really going to track down some woman that RS had a past with five years ago, force her on a plane and record Nick making false statements and bashing a contestant and talking in a somewhat negative light about the lead? No way in my mind.

Once production knew that was out, there was nothing they could really do. Like I said, RS gives us the spoiler each year, but he usually never really gives us anything to back it up, especially as strong as the videos of Nick. I think at that point, production lost interest in protecting the final outcome as did Josh and Andi and I don't blame them.

[GuardianAngel]

IMO no opinions or thoughts are laughable. They are all welcomed. Perhaps some of the content of what was discovered is laughable, such as the free for all in the SM clues, and if I believed that it was a free for all, I would hope no one would say I was laughable because that was my opinion.

Also, IMO, the plane vid had nothing to do with the outcome of the season. That was already planned way ahead of time. Nick said what was on his mind in the moment, not knowing he was being recorded. Everyone else posting SM clues did so knowingly.

This board has clues up the ying yang on why Josh would be the F1, based on SM clues alone. Like my son says, your friends knows who wins before the lead even knows.

[Cecilia]

Being tape recorded in a public place saying (in words or substance) "I just finished filming the Bachelorette, I met her parents, but she picked the other guy" can't really mean anything but ... just that!   Quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, has feathers and webbed feet and associates with ducks.  And boardies were able to fill hours and threads debating it.  Nothing wrong -- it's just a way to pass the time, but people find the "other" meaning, even when there is really no other way to rationally look at the evidence.  

Again, everyone comes to this board for their own reasons.  I was not one who disregarded the evidence, but chose to look beyond it.  For me, life is journey, not a destination (RW Emerson).... and my personal journey is about the love story.  

And honestly, even if the evidence is real, it didn’t actually guarantee a specific ending, since, like Mesnick, Andi could have changed her mind.  It’s not over till it’s over.... and personally, I’m still waiting for the happy ending to this particular tale...

I'm confused by this statement. Do you mean a happy ending for Nick or a happy ending for Nick and Andi? If it's the latter, I feel pretty confident in saying that imo, she will never, ever again interact with him regardless of what happens with Josh, let alone date him or pursue a romantic relationship. I don't blame her. JMO.

Alanna - to your bolded - Let's hope so!

[Ash2214]

IMO no opinions or thoughts are laughable. They are all welcomed. Perhaps some of the content of what was discovered is laughable, such as the free for all in the SM clues, and if I believed that it was a free for all, I would hope no one would say I was laughable because that was my opinion.

Also, IMO, the plane vid had nothing to do with the outcome of the season. That was already planned way ahead of time. Nick said what was on his mind in the moment, not knowing he was being recorded. Everyone else posting SM clues did so knowingly.

This board has clues up the ying yang on why Josh would be the F1, based on SM clues alone. Like my son says, your friends knows who wins before the lead even knows.

I totally respect your opinion! But I have a question. With the bolded, wasn't the video, other than the RS spoiler, the first thing that truly, 100% confirmed the outcome of the season? While we all assumed Andi would pick Josh, we didn't know 100%. The second the videos were released, which was pretty soon after the finale was filmed, most people were confident of the spoiled outcome. Nick is certainly not stupid, while he might not have known someone would record his words, he probably knew people were hearing his conversation. That didn't stop him from saying a few things that if I was behind him, I would have known what he was talking about too. Just like the woman who sent RS the videos who had no preconceived notion of Nick said Nick was "broadcasting" everything he said on the plane. This woman said the whole plane could hear him. The woman next to him even had to tell him to be quiet and he didn't listen. I don't have an issue with him calling a loved one to vent, I would do the same, but he could have been way more discreet. He knowingly spoke on the phone extremely loud. He apparently didn't care if people heard what he was saying. I think it's a bit of a contradiction to allude to the SM clues as what confirmed the outcome of the show, when in reality, Nick's video did just that.

In the end, the videos of Nick were the first confirmation of the spoiled outcome. Heck, it was recorded two days after the finale was filmed and completed. We got them on the very first day of the season airing.

[luvlady345]

 , IKR Ash?  Nick's video was the first confirmation I just don't know how that can be over looked or pushed aside..  They still have to go back and edit the final product, you don't think TPTB knew about this video?  Sure they did, I bet they all but threw the hands in the air because 95% of the online viewers knew the outcome as viewed on you tube, regardless what MM posted on FB it would not have been seen by as many people as the Nick you tube....

[beader]

How many months has it been since the release of that video? I just can't believe it's still a major point of discussion by Jodi fans. Some just don't seem to want to give it up and move on. I'm just not sure what the point is. Are we now "discussing" who really spoiled the season? And how many months old is that discussion? Does anyone really care at this point?

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