Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[isittrue]

Half of my friends and my mother thought no way would Nick even be F1 due to his edit.  Especially, when the other guys mentioned that Nick was strategizing and playing a game.  It was only at the hometown dates that they began to see that his feelings were genuine but at that point, many figured she'd pick Josh.  I sometimes wonder if Andi herself questioned Nick's feelings after viewing the season prior to ATFR and thought he not being genuine and that his feelings were an act.... hence her treatment towards him.  

Anyway, much as I wanted Nick to be F1, I never was able to move fully past the plane video, the blatant SM, Mama Murray, snap chat and the yellow ribbons.  I grasped at some straws, hoping it was an elaborate foiler but deep down I knew it was not.  I thought there was a slight chance of her changing her mind or having chosen no one but again, there were not any clues to suggest that and the tabloids confirmed that as well.  Next year, I will know better (or not).

ETA: The change of body language during the LCD was also a big clue to me. I could not explain that away either.

[emad0722]

^I will just say that at least half or more Nick fans on this board didn't try to explain away the spoilers!

yup!!!!

[sbolduc]

With all due respect, how much do you think your friends know about the kinds of manipulations and editing tricks the producers use to mislead viewers?  I'm not surprised that there was a reasonable split of opinion among the average (however loyal) unspoiled viewers; that is what the producers are going for when they put the edit together.  But I'm assuming that everyone who posted here, even those who chose to remain unspoiled this season, are the obsessed (and I say that with affection, as you are my people   ) viewers who know more, and would watch the show with a different mindset, based on that knowledge, from the start.

Sorry was at work couldn't respond until now!

In regards to the bolded, you are absolutely correct, I was typing fast on my phone so didn't exactly write my thoughts correctly. My friends, I would say know the show well in terms of a surface level edit, but do not know the extent of the producer manipulation. I was trying to make the point that I don't think that it appeared to everyone as a slamdunk on the non-spoiled side. But I agree there is a difference between the casual viewer and educated one.

For me, I was a Nick fan through out (I am also a Josh and Andi fan ) and while there were things that made me go hmmm I would have been very shocked if the spoiler were not true. To me the key things that pointed to Josh were:

1. SM clues - Andi and Josh snapchat, Andi always liking things related to positive Josh tweets and no one else until they were eliminated, Kelly's tweets about Nick
2. Nick's video - I could not deny this it was too consistent with Nick's mannerisms and attitude throughout the show
3. Watch the feet - Andi and Josh would go "missing" at the same times and would post similar photos (i.e. the lake). Nick was missing during these times too but was usually seen at least once during the other two's silences
4. BL and Edit - I honestly think you could argue for both in this regard, without the SM clues I honestly didn't feel as strongly as everyone else in terms of Andi always being about Josh, I noticed a shift at the FS rose ceremony when Andi couldn't stop looking at Josh. Other than that these were my KEYs in terms of the edit and BL:
- The freaking out in Italy in regards to the lie detector
- The reaction to the FILY in Beligium (I actually thought her reaction to Nick's ILY was much more responsive than to Josh's which I was not at all expecting)
- The kiss on nose in Beligium
- Andi calling Josh "babe"
- Andi referring to Josh's family as potential in-laws, didn't say this about anyone else
- Andi's dad referring to Josh as a son in law, don't remember him saying that about Nick.

If you take away the video, SM, and those key moments above I would have felt very differently, but with those it was hard to deny she was picking Josh.

This is probably for the edit thread, mods let me know if I should move, just trying to respond to another post   

[Litta123]

^^Gosh, sbolduc, your summary is pretty much how I saw it.   

[sdmom]

I liked Nick. I like him even more after the show. Half way through the show, I didn't want Andi to pick him because I didn't like her that much, and didn't think they were good fits. I was one of the Free Nick fans, along with stuck. However, that didn't mean I didn't enjoy watching them together on my TV, I had fun with other Nick Chicks, working to discover pro Nick clues through editing and SM. I was hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. So, I wasn't too surprised Josh was f1. In fact, I'd expected him to be f1. The biggest clue for me was his mom throwing the finale viewing party. So, to me, yes, Josh's family gave away the outcome; this is only my opinion and my opinion only.
So, my fav was not picked. I've never picked a winner. But, the fun for me is the process, the time I spent here discussing, speculating, and sleuthing with some wonderful posters. I know I will follow Nick for a while, then, if he stays off spotlight, my interest in him will gradually wean off. I will pick another fav, and the cycle will start again. Hopefully, one day, I will pick a F1. If not, hey, I will still have fun on this board.

[murphy]

So, my fav was not picked. I've never picked a winner. But, the fun for me is the process, the time I spent here discussing

I liked seeing this because it reminded me of my predicament with watching this show. I have frequently picked the winner, but my favorite has never won. Guess I've always taken the road less traveled   

'Course some seasons I didn't have a favorite, and a few I just tuned out (Lorenzo, ugh). I have just started posting and don't seem to have near enough time to keep up, so I'll just have to chime in when I can pop in, even if the topic has moved on   

Commenting on the body language discussion, I always try to read the body language, but I can't do it with the sound on. I have to watch with the sound turned off. And as another poster commented - if the lead is pursuing someone, that's a dead giveaway (Andi and Josh, Brad and Emily, Andy and Tessa, etc, etc).

[Lucas15]

there's got to be some psychological significance to why having seemingly MORE information misled many of us on the spoiled side.  I love that we are exploring that.

Well IC we've seen a days or so comments that may give us some insight into this most interesting question. First of all I'd like to comment that this show started in 2002 so it's been running now for 12 years. I've read some opinions that a TV show usually aims for a 5 year run so regardless of how many things we see wrong with it, it's doing something more right than an average TV series. One possible reason is that the show attracts different viewers for different reasons and they watch in different ways. There is no right or wrong reason to watch and there is no right or wrong "way" to watch but there are different reasons and ways to watch.


Some of the comments posters have made suggest that some watch to try and figure out the ending. Others watch because they like to find a character they "like" and want to follow that person's journey. Every single post made by everyone who posted is a valid reason to watch and provided entertainment to that poster but not every poster was trying to figure out the ending.

I think that the "unspoiled forum" acted as a filter and after passing through that filter "the unspolied" were a more homogenous group with a more common interest in trying to figure out the ending of the show. They watched the show with that objective and had an easier time figuring it out because that's what they were trying to do.

I would add as well that they were not the only ones who had what I would call impressive success. I followed a bit of what was being posted in the Screen Cap threads (which was a spoiled group) as they analyzed the meager bit of information we got from previews of the ending. They figured out that there was probably only one guy at the FRC (because we never saw any previews of the actual FRC) and they also figured out that the preview scenes of an emotional Andi on a rainy day in someone's room actually took place prior to the FRC (it rained the day before as I recall) and that the room we saw her in was Nick's (by matching decor and features that the show tried very hard to hide). It was impressive analysis and stunningly accurate once we got to see the ending. But again there was a built in filter - posters in those threads were only trying to figure out what we were seeing on screen.

My take away? If your guilty pleasure is to try and figure out the ending, align yourself with a group of posters who are trying to do the same thing because that group is probably going to have a better chance of being right. Similarly if you're trying to enjoy following a particular character and their journey because you like that person then align yourself with others who are doing the same thing for the same character. This forum has a place for every poster.

[ironcat]

Great analysis, Lucas!    

[Litta123]

Lucas, that was interesting! Your theory seems reasonable...and likely...to me. Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts together. I definitely try to figure out the ending in my approach to this show. I try not to let myself get too attached to any one person so as not to be disappointed in the end. This season that was easier than in other ones as I genuinely liked both F2 guys.

[Guest]

^^Lucas, great analysis and I always enjoy reading your balanced points of view.
You ended the post with: "This forum has a place for every poster."
Exactly! It's really interesting to read all different aspects of how people sees the show and its participants.

[b]

I liked Nick. I like him even more after the show. Half way through the show, I didn't want Andi to pick him because I didn't like her that much, and didn't think they were good fits.  I was one of the  Free Nick fans, along with stuck. However, that didn't mean I didn't enjoy watching them together on my TV, I had fun with other Nick Chicks, working to discover pro Nick clues through editing and SM. I was hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. So, I wasn't too surprised Josh was f1. In fact, I'd expected him to be f1. The biggest clue for me was his mom throwing the finale viewing party. So, to me, yes, Josh's family gave away the outcome; this is only my opinion and my opinion only.
So, my fav was not picked. I've never picked a winner. But, the fun for me is the process, the time I spent here discussing, speculating, and sleuthing with some wonderful posters. I know I will follow Nick for a while, then, if he stays off spotlight, my interest in him will gradually wean off. I will pick another fav, and the cycle will start again. Hopefully, one day, I will pick a F1. If not, hey, I will still have fun on this board.

sdmom. ... I have to agree w your comment on the Murray family SM.   While I thought Nick's video could go either way, it was their constant tweets revealing Josh f1 that I couldn't reconcile in my mind. So while I hoped for aNick F1 ending, I was not at all surprised w Josh F1.  Although, I so hoped Mura and Team Nick were right!    Post show, seeing more of Nick, I think her princess behavior would've driven him crazy. It is honestly not a slam against Andi, but it just seems to be who she is at this point. But the good part about that is Josh doesn't seem to mind.

[pander3575]

I liked Nick. I like him even more after the show. Half way through the show, I didn't want Andi to pick him because I didn't like her that much, and didn't think they were good fits.  I was one of the  Free Nick fans, along with stuck. However, that didn't mean I didn't enjoy watching them together on my TV, I had fun with other Nick Chicks, working to discover pro Nick clues through editing and SM. I was hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. So, I wasn't too surprised Josh was f1. In fact, I'd expected him to be f1. The biggest clue for me was his mom throwing the finale viewing party. So, to me, yes, Josh's family gave away the outcome; this is only my opinion and my opinion only.
So, my fav was not picked. I've never picked a winner. But, the fun for me is the process, the time I spent here discussing, speculating, and sleuthing with some wonderful posters. I know I will follow Nick for a while, then, if he stays off spotlight, my interest in him will gradually wean off. I will pick another fav, and the cycle will start again. Hopefully, one day, I will pick a F1. If not, hey, I will still have fun on this board.

sdmom. ... I have to agree w your comment on the Murray family SM.   While I thought Nick's video could go either way, it was their constant tweets revealing Josh f1 that I couldn't reconcile in my mind. So while I hoped for aNick F1 ending, I was not at all surprised w Josh F1.  Although, I so hoped Mura and Team Nick were right!    Post show, seeing more of Nick, I think her princess behavior would've driven him crazy. It is honestly not a slam against Andi, but it just seems to be who she is at this point. But the good part about that is Josh doesn't seem to mind.

I think Nick and Andi's over thinking everything would have driven both of them crazy. Everything works out for a reason. Except for the tweet to Hy about hoping to meet his daughter I thought the Murrays stayed fairly quiet. What Josh's mother put on FB just showed a proud mother which was no different than many other past contestants including Shay (Sean's sister).

[Sponsored content]