Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[umngirl]

Thanks to all you answered me. But now I'm confused. Lol. Some say Nick apologized and some said he wished he hadn't said those things which isn't an apology. Which is it? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't a clue which one is true.

[soccermom333]

Thanks to all you answered me. But now I'm confused. Lol. Some say Nick apologized and some said he wished he hadn't said those things which isn't an apology. Which is it? I'm genuinely asking because I haven't a clue which one is true.

Nick never uttered the words "I'm sorry," ever. I believe some posters are interpreting his answers in interviews to be an apology. Again, he never said he was sorry, in fact in one interview he said he has no regrets, something to that effect.

All water under the bridge now because Andi and Josh are living their life together planning a wedding. ;)

For those who think Nick and Josh should "sit" down together and talk, never going to happen. Andi is Josh's heart and soul. His life. Nick has seemed to move on as well as Andi and Josh. I believe there are some here who can't and would like there to be a different ending but it is what it is.

[Lucas15]

^^Interesting speculation. Would it be far fetched to think that TPTB were also speaking in Andi's ear about Nick, saying things like this guy won't give up, he ruined your season, etc? Knowing that Andi has that hard edge to her personality, were TPTB attempting to manipulate her response as well?

If the belief is that Nick was manipulated to ask his question on ATFR, which I tend to believe because CH wouldn't give up, would it be reasonable to consider that Andi was emotionally set up to be cold against Nick?

I think it would be more than reasonable - more like "very probable" (or as Kasha posted "I would bet on it"); it's just what they do.

It may be a fine distinction to make but I didn't see Andi as cold (that was Nick's word) - to me she read as guarded (ie very careful about giving out any "information" and requiring a conscious effort open up) but I can easily see how Nick would see that as cold. The information we know she had was Nick's letter which contained more than one way of expressing the hope that she and Nick might still have a chance at a relationship. Even if TPTB hadn't been whispering in her ear (and I would bet that they actually had been) she had reason enough to be guarded - she had no idea what to expect and would likely have prepared herself (emotionally) for the worst.

[Alanna]

^^Interesting speculation. Would it be far fetched to think that TPTB were also speaking in Andi's ear about Nick, saying things like this guy won't give up, he ruined your season, etc? Knowing that Andi has that hard edge to her personality, were TPTB attempting to manipulate her response as well?

If the belief is that Nick was manipulated to ask his question on ATFR, which I tend to believe because CH wouldn't give up, would it be reasonable to consider that Andi was emotionally set up to be cold against Nick?

I think it would be more than reasonable - more like "very probable" (or as Kasha posted "I would bet on it"); it's just what they do.

It may be a fine distinction to make but I didn't see Andi as cold (that was Nick's word) - to me she read as guarded (ie very careful about giving out any "information" and requiring a conscious effort open up) but I can easily see how Nick would see that as cold. The information we know she had was Nick's letter which contained more than one way of expressing the hope that she and Nick might still have a chance at a relationship. Even if TPTB hadn't been whispering in her ear (and I would bet that they actually had been) she had reason enough to be guarded - she had no idea what to expect and would likely have prepared herself (emotionally) for the worst.

I think Andi is an expert at shutting down and turning herself off, probably as a defense mechanism. She definitely did it with Nick at atfr and imo that's what started this chain of events.

As for Nick and Josh chatting it up, can't imagine it'll ever happen. Josh might not have felt strongly about Nick either way, but once he started doing things that Andi perceived as hurtful, regardless of how Nick meant them, it was kind of over in terms of being friendly with him for Josh. He has made it clear what he thinks of Nick and what "type" of guy he is, so I don't see them ever grabbing coffee.

[Ash2214]

The tricky part is knowing when and if you do a wrongdoing. We all have trouble and wrestle with this. I know I do at times. It's not something I'm proud of; it's a human issue I try to work through.
Yanno, Ash for me, I have enough difficulty on a daily basis taking care of me and my goof ups--I am not going to take what celebs on a reality show do seriously or attempt to interpret or judge them. At least I hope I won't/don't.  
I'm even glad Emily found happiness. Now Effie---I can't go there yet. But I don't wish him ill!   

I'm confused as to why this post is directed at me, especially since there are a few people involved with this discussion right now and given the words used, I'm not sure if you're trying to put words in my mouth or what. I've never wished ill will to any of the contestants, including Nick. I'm giving my thoughts on him, just like others here have given their thoughts on Andi...  

For me, it's as simple as Andi made mistakes. Nick made mistakes. I don't know where their heads were at when they did and said the things they did. Only they know. For me, all I know is, Andi shouldn't have slept with Nick, but she did for her own reasons. I don't think Nick should have said any of the sh*t things he said about numerous people, but he did for his own reasons. I'm not sure where I've wished any of them ill will, because I haven't. I don't know these people, but I'm sure in real life - outside of the bubble, they're all great. I'm in agreement though that maybe if there were sincere apologizes given, particularly on Nick's side, then none of us would be having this debate right now because it wouldn't be such a topic.

I'm sorry if you took it negative. It was in response to the innocent/not innocent issue post right before my post, that is all. (which I think you authored) Putting any other spin on it was not on my agenda.
It was not meant as a negative retort, just how I have a hard enough time dealing with me---as obviously noted in this apology post.  
I wake up and turn on the news this morning, and hear the re-hash of the American journalist beheaded. I hear about the racial unrest in STL(my family lives there, I was born and raised until 18).
I have a very hard time taking this show seriously, but certainly apologize to you if you thought ill of my post as it was not the intention, but only to ponder the word "innocent" when applied to a cast person or any person for that matter.

Thanks for the apology. I guess I was just confused because I simply responded to someone's post about all three being guilty in this situation and I responded with one sentence that if you look at the ridiculous situation all three of them were in, I would say Josh is the innocent one considering the roles Andi and Nick played in it. Other posters were talking about this topic and I just didn't think my one sentence post warranted a direct comment about not being judgemental or wishing anyone ill will. I guess in my opinion, my few words didn't warrant the words in your response directed at me.

I'm in agreement with your response. I've said so in many of my posts. It's awful reading and hearing about real life events, but I'm leaving a few comments on a board that centers on a silly reality television show. I guess for me, I don't take my comments here too seriously and correlate them to events going on in our world.

I guess I also just get confused about how others talks about not being judgemental, but yet we're all guilty of it. Just like some people here talking in a negative light about Nick in this thread, others talk negatively about "MeAndi" in her thread.

Again, thanks for the apology. Maybe I just read too much into it.

[GuardianAngel]

I'm sorry if you took it negative. It was in response to the innocent/not innocent issue post right before my post, that is all. (which I think you authored) Putting any other spin on it was not on my agenda.
It was not meant as a negative retort, just how I have a hard enough time dealing with me---as obviously noted in this apology post.  
I wake up and turn on the news this morning, and hear the re-hash of the American journalist beheaded. I hear about the racial unrest in STL(my family lives there, I was born and raised until 18).
I have a very hard time taking this show seriously, but certainly apologize to you if you thought ill of my post as it was not the intention, but only to ponder the word "innocent" when applied to a cast person or any person for that matter.

I'm in the same boat. I have a difficult time dealing with the news. My cousin who is leaving for Israel next week, to attend his daughter's wedding among the rockets being fired, or the local constable that was hit head on and killed while getting off work early, leaving two young children, everyone standing outside of our office, while the police motorcade funeral service drove by, makes this show for me, an outlet for diversion of everyday life, and certainly not to be taken seriously.

Nick didn't say "I'm sorry" but said he could have said things differently. When asked any questions post show, he was always as gracious as he could be. Maybe he doesn't feel an apology is necessary because he truly wanted to know why did she go as far as sleeping with him and that was the only opportunity he had to ask.

As an attorney, why would she say things like "bash his skull in" or "rhymes with body part" to put yourself in an incriminating position. IMO if Nick wasn't the type of guy he is, it could have been a lot worse. Jake/Vienna Jason/Molly/Melissa. Just think of Andi's behaviour at F3 on JPG's season and post show, or Claire's behaviour, the things she said, when she was let go and post show. Nick pales in comparison to other's behaviour post show.

[Kashathediva]

I think escapism--watching the silliness of reality tv is the main reason I watch and snark.   
Back to the topic--judgmentalism, mentioned above--another foe to reckon with!
My adult daughters always say to me: "Mom, you are so judgemental." IMNSHO(in my not so humble opinion), I see it as me expressing my opinion! If I don't like a name my niece is choosing to name her son, I feel like I should be able to say so to my daughter. I am not expressing such to my niece, of course! I try to work so hard on being judgmental, but sometimes it is very stealthy.    I do have a hard time separating opinion from judgement.
Anyway, I think it's ok to talk negatively about the cast--any cast, just as it is to discuss positively.

[sbolduc]

^^Interesting speculation. Would it be far fetched to think that TPTB were also speaking in Andi's ear about Nick, saying things like this guy won't give up, he ruined your season, etc? Knowing that Andi has that hard edge to her personality, were TPTB attempting to manipulate her response as well?

If the belief is that Nick was manipulated to ask his question on ATFR, which I tend to believe because CH wouldn't give up, would it be reasonable to consider that Andi was emotionally set up to be cold against Nick?

I agree with Lucas and Kasha I would bet on it.

I would also bet that they already had Nick on tape saying that he thought she took it too far in the FS I wouldn't be surprised if he said it to her when she broke up with him or as Lucas mentioned in the van ride home.

[mindless]

Nick didn't say "I'm sorry" but said he could have said things differently. When asked any questions post show, he was always as gracious as he could be. Maybe he doesn't feel an apology is necessary because he truly wanted to know why did she go as far as sleeping with him and that was the only opportunity he had to ask.

I don't think he needs to apologize either. I know many think his question was intended as punishment or retaliation for how she treated him, but I think it was just an honest reaction to the things she was saying, and that is why I understand his need to explain himself in interviews afterwards. People were accusing him of all kinds of things, even sl** shaming, which wasn't his intention at all, so he went on to explain his reasons for saying what he did. Hell, even after he explained himself, people were still saying he was blaming Andi for what he said and that just makes him an even bigger ass. He wasn't blaming Andi, he was just explaining his mindset when he voiced that question. That's why I don't mind him writing that entry on Sean's blog either, because most people were still refusing to step into his shoes for even one second to understand where he was coming from. At least he got to fully explain what he meant, whether people agree with it or not is up to them.

He did however say in the Extra interview "I certainly hope I didn't hurt her feelings or anything like that and for that I do apologize". In addition to that he said he accepts full responsibility for what he said and he wished he could take back the things he said about Josh on the plane. He's basically been as polite as can be afterwards, without rolling over and taking blame for something he didn't actually do.

[Lucas15]

I would also bet that they already had Nick on tape saying that he thought she took it too far in the FS I wouldn't be surprised if he said it to her when she broke up with him or as Lucas mentioned in the van ride home.

One thing I can state with some degree of confidence is that we did not get to see all of the break up conversation (which I played about 5 times so I could transcribe every word said during the broadcast).

For one thing when Nick said "Sometimes I think you took it too far" Andi replied "I took it too far?" (her emphasis on the word "I" and a question at the end) so there may not have been a clear agreement about who did what. Did they talk more about that? I don't know - but they might have.

A second thing is that in Nick's letter he wrote "That is one thing that has bothered me the most--when you said you know you could have a good life with me, you just don’t think you could have a great one." Wwen Nick wrote the letter he had not seen or talked to Andi since the breakup and yet he "quoted" something she said then but we didn't see it. I don't know what else we didn't see and perhaps what wasn't shown just wasn't that significant, or perhaps it was but was "saved for later".

Regardless of when, I think they did have Nick on film asking that question before filming in the DR wrapped.

[ironcat]

I do think it's much easier for Nick to take the role of the "gracious loser" now, and say how much he wishes the best for the happy couple, because, really, what else could he say at this point? The only alternative to how he is conducting himself would make him out to be a very obvious whiny sore loser. He is certainly not stupid enough to go this route.

I've asked this before on the Andi/Josh thread, but I'd be curious to know whether, if the situation had been reversed, and Nick was engaged to Andi now, and Josh had behaved the way Nick had, if people feel that Nick would now be treating Josh with such respect and graciousness?

[Lucas15]

I've asked this before on the Andi/Josh thread, but I'd be curious to know whether, if the situation had been reversed, and Nick was engaged to Andi now, and Josh had behaved the way Nick had, if people feel that Nick would now be treating Josh with such respect and graciousness?

[begin snark]

Gee - I think Nick already told us what he'd do - he'd be out walking his dog named Murray.

[/end snark]

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