Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - Fan Forum - Updates - Discussion - Thread #9

[stuckinsc]

Didn't they show Nick telling CH that he wanted to see Andi? We didn't see CH actually talking to Andi about it but still don't see how Andi can deny that one. We only heard about Nick wanting to see Andy in Mexico from CH so if it's not true then he's the liar. Wonder if she thought that through?   

I really liked Nick's interview on ET.

And didn't Andi herself say that she read the letter Nick sent to her? I call that reaching out.

As far as if she knew if he was at the MTA or not, don't care. CH lies, Andi has lied and backtracked so much in the last three days that her head is probably threatening to fall off like a swivel.

Nick never condoned sex, and like Sharleen's friends mentioned to her that Sharleen put in the recap. It wasn't about having sex, it is about having sex with someone when you don't have the same feelings, it is wrong, be you man or woman, be your partner man or woman. If everyone is on the same page do what you are both comfortable with.

Just another reason I am completely over MeAndI. I didn't even look at the people spread and that is the first time ever. I even looked for Ben and Courtney.

Can we still discuss things in general here. I honestly am just tired of the hate on Nick out in the general threads and I don't want to deal with it anymore. I feel like the bachelorette 10 threads are all owned by those who hate Nick, not even the Josh and Andi fans who just like them, but the people who hate Nick. There are some in the middle, but I don't think they are leaving the Andi and Josh fan thread.

[Catdwoman50]

Hugs, stuckinSC!!

[notarose]

NR - I know you only look for an excuse that I bring it here J/K
'sliding doors'

This just makes me laugh... particularly the porno music that accompanies...   

  

[MonicaJM2001]

Here are my foggy thoughts this morning, before I have even finished my first cup of coffee……

I don't think Nick will be the next Bachelor, because, in his own words, the infamous question, which naturally spills over to include Nick in general, was very "polarizing". Other years, I think Fleiss would have peed is pants for someone like Nick, but coming off of JP's season, I'd say he will play it safe. And as much as I'd love to see him on my TV each week, I am afraid he'd be bashed by a lot of people. He'd be loved by many, but again….polarizing.

I think JJ will provide us with plenty of weekend pictures….YAY!

I am still curious as to who set up all those interviews for Nick….and why?

I agree, I may be one of very few Ben fans here but none the less a fan and always will be but after seeing what went down on his season of Bachelor I would be nervous for any of my favorite guys to ever be Bachelor again. That why I say have at it Chris or Arie!!!!!!!!!! (I like Arie and he is hot but I'm not invested to the point I'd be nervous of how he is portrayed or received...)

[stuckinsc]

Sue ...
from bottom up:
He will never say it. We may think that way, he probably at the end came to similar conclusion.
There is a level of deceit ... or this show would call it ... lead on.
And he knows it ... he called it ... he is using more delicate words in the interviews now ... but he is saying it.
The last part of the interview on E! - the video above - the part that is not transcripted is "when people have an understanding when love's involved and falling in-love ... I think there's a level of respect that both people should give to it" ... of course he says later ... "I'm not saying she didn't...."  ... but well, I would call it: leave it to the interpretation.

The letter ... hmmm... the letter ... He wrote it. - Yes. But I don't buy the story of wanting her back. Even he doesn't say it. It is written in a way that it can allude. It is mostly him questioning her (challenging must say, to explain herself about her actions and words to him).
In the video in MKE ... he and his mom - on tape - clearly say that he needs closure (not about what), but also Nick is very strong-minded, he doesn't talk about wanting her back in any way, just that he wants to understand.
In the voice-over he talks about the hope and possibility of her changing her mind. That part, together with the MTA visit, together with the letter ... was all scripted and produced for the purpose of the storyboard "heartbroken Nick" (not his idea, but he ran with it).
Did he try to contact her ... let's assume and believe every word CH says ... yes ... once - and I say, only once - when he called ... he was told that they cannot contact her (probably, because she was vacationing or whatever) ... he knew by then she was engaged (or at least he figured it out himself) ... so it wasn't his intention to get her back, he wanted to discuss the issue about the whole experience and how she made him feel ... to get clarity but most importantly his peace.

About the closure ... (and MTA visit that I don't believe was much of his idea, beside they flew him in and set up the whole thing, even the talk between CH and Nick in CH's room was scripted)
imagining to be in Nick's shoes ...
He gets told in DR, by the girl, that she doesn't feel it, that it doesn't feel right, that he is analyzing to much, that he drags her down and she cannot relax with him, ...,
and he asks her "do you really think that?" ... and she confirms and puts more salt on the wound.
He goes home, on the plane he says he just left it at that, didn't want to argue... because he felt it a night before, he heard it then that morning from her mouth, she had a complete wrong picture of him... so he knows that they aren't IT ...
but he questions ... why did I feel like we were? ... was I imagining all that connection between us? ... where did I misread the signs?
- it's normal, we start to doubt ourselves ... and he probably was going crazy overthinking about every step of the way ... her action, her words and at the end coming to his room being a complete different person -
that's a inner turmoil he had all this time post filming, prior to ATFR, that's what his mom hoped he can get a closure with. His questions about why misleading him, why making him believe in all the connection when she didn't really get him (otherwise she wouldn't say those things to him on the day of the breakup)? And just like Eric, he was wondering when was she acting with him and when was she real? ... because if he felt a deep connection, which he never felt before, it is heartbreaking to know, that it wasn't real at all, because it was only one-sided, or in different words, it was an idea, since the person he "saw and understood" wasn't really the person 100% in.
And I believe that's the closure he needed to get. With her behavior, he got his answers.
I hope I explained better.

Happy, I totally agree that the coming to MTA was producer driven. They had him under a threat of $5 million lawsuit. I do think that they may have told him that Andi was reconsidering her decision. I don't know, but his being at MTA and filmed in Milwaukee was all TPTB and not him on his own. The whole call to CH when MeAndI and Joshie were in Mexico, not sure, if that was TPTB prodding or what.

I also think by AFTR, he really did just want to know if she had ever felt anything for him at all or if it was all an act. I think he had no choice but to play into the TPTB storyline that he wanted her back and he did reach out as he had to not get sued for $5 million.

[isittrue]

Didn't they show Nick telling CH that he wanted to see Andi? We didn't see CH actually talking to Andi about it but still don't see how Andi can deny that one. We only heard about Nick wanting to see Andy in Mexico from CH so if it's not true then he's the liar. Wonder if she thought that through?   

I really liked Nick's interview on ET.

And didn't Andi herself say that she read the letter Nick sent to her?  I call that reaching out.

As far as if she knew if he was at the MTA or not, don't care.  CH lies, Andi has lied and backtracked so much in the last three days that her head is probably threatening to fall off like a swivel.

Nick never condoned sex, and like Sharleen's friends mentioned to her that Sharleen put in the recap.  It wasn't about having sex, it is about having sex with someone when you don't have the same feelings, it is wrong, be you man or woman, be your partner man or woman.  If everyone is on the same page do what you are both comfortable with.

Just another reason I am completely over MeAndI.  I didn't even look at the people spread and that is the first time ever.  I even looked for Ben and Courtney.

Can we still discuss things in general here.  I honestly am just tired of the hate on Nick out in the general threads and I don't want to deal with it anymore.  I feel like the bachelorette 10 threads are all owned by those who hate Nick, not even the Josh and Andi fans who just like them, but the people who hate Nick.  There are some in the middle, but I don't think they are leaving the Andi and Josh fan thread.

As usual, Stuck, your points are all on target.  I agree with everything you posted.  I myself have a little bit of whiplash from all the different things coming out of Andi's and CH's mouths the last few days. I think all the stuff showed on ATFR was pure producer manipulation and while I don't doubt Nick was confused and heartbroken, TPTB added the stalker edit to spice up the story.  I also agree, sex is ok as long as everyone is the same page, whether you are a man or woman.

And finally I myself am a little tired of defending Nick in every other thread and I think it may be best for my own good that I stay here too.  Part of the reason, I was hoping RS was wrong (besides RS being wrong ha ha) was because I dreaded what was to come and the ATFR has only increased that.

[Longhornfan]

Cecilia wrote:
http://survivorbitch.com/tag/the-bachelorette-2/
Great read and ripe for a tantalizing SC.




Catdwoman50 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jason_mesnick/status/494895450667761666
Wonderful as well!

There are a few things I find perplexing post-show.

1. Andi & Nick both admitted to having sex on at least the FS date.  He framed it in the context of "intimacy" and it was that aspect that moved it out of the "wham bam thank you mam" realm.
Regardless, both publicly admit to intercourse while they are sitting on the same couch at ATFR yet there isn't much media attention on the fact that she did this not long before accepting a proposal.  I don't care what "the show" allows but I think it's fairly safe to say that the Vialls are pretty happy there son survived a 2 1/2 month relationship, despite the wretched heartbreak, because if he had proposed instead EVERYONE would know his fiancé slept with another guy less than a week before. This way, Nick is single and no doubt has slept with other women so she is just one more in his history. He likely isn't embarrassed about having slept with any of them because he wasn't planning to get engaged to someone else a week later.  Real life!  

2. OMG is J really ok with this as a part of his love story that will always be available online for his children's viewing pleasure? Not exactly a hand-drawn fairytale.  I never really took a liking to J. but she did it and has said she did on ATFR and in an interview with him standing right beside her.  Have some respect for your fiancé and his family! Ok, she said it once, but to repeat it again?  He wasn't that appealing to me but still, he's just a normal guy with lots of good traits and his fiancé should stop talking about this and Nick in general. She's starting to implode.  Just because Nick's letter mentioned something along the lines of "if you ever think of me" doesn't mean she has to keep thinking and responding to him.  She's the one that needs to put her "big girl panties on" and act like someone who is planning a wedding not a public execution of her former lover. Again, he's single and she's just someone who he used to date and is trying to move on from.  A free agent.  There's no woman currently cuddling with Nick on the couch who has to live with this public tiff.

3. It doesn't matter how many women like what Nick has to offer.  The pool is large enough for him to explore as he sees fit.  He obviously now knows he doesn't want a woman who turns on a dime when they wake up in the morning. It's all good.
The media should stop scrutinizing him. I don't think he cares at all how many people think his feelings were genuine.  It's basically irrelevant to his daily life at this point as he is done with the show. He knows what's true and strangers don't matter. If he wants to go on a date with someone tomorrow, he can. 6 months from now, his call.  He's single.  Obviously being in love with A., in Marcus's case, wasn't that hard to get over for some reason.  Same with Chris who thinks being the next Bach sounds like a good deal.  Who knows what Nick will do.
Too much focus and digging around for dirty laundry in Nick's case.  Why is it a sin to fall in love and want to have a heart to heart talk about it?  It's about respect and incumbent on the one who initiated the break up to be adult about it. She chose to not allow him privacy so "touché".  She wanted a public break up talk and she got it.  Real break ups can be messy.
My my, does she fear he might become the next Bach?  .  I don't want him to be but maybe his kisses really are magical.     Shouldn't be any concern of hers.  She had her chance.  Move over and Staap blasting the guy you broke up with in an attempt to discredit him.  She's just helping Nick get over her even faster! This isn't middle school. She needs to focus on her current man and meaning behind the ring on her finger.

4.  Nick, his family, and some friends have all met Andi.  If she deceived him then she deceived them as well ... including 9 year old Bella.  If Andi deceived herself, that is even rockier road that would no longer concern them because she's ENGAGED to a different man.  To them, just a girl Nick dated for 2 1/2 months. It could have been worse.  I do still think she was a much softer version of herself with him so I actually don't buy that she was faking but she made a different choice nonetheless.

5. Why are rag mags continuing to trying to discredit Nick?  Why was a Bach producer spotted at his NYC interview after which Ali, a Bach nation veteran, begins recanting positive Nick comments?  What is the purpose of stretching this story out?  Is there a final act yet to come or is it all just filler for the network until the next great storyline (laboratory venture) is storyboarded for viewer amusement?  Silly, silly, silly. Let intelligent, successful, not afraid of his emotions, eloquent, tenacious, sometimes sweet, sensual Nick #livelikeEric and find his future wife on his own terms and in his own time.     I still   Nick because he's a rebel ... deliciously so.

LOVE THIS!!!

I agree that Andi's actions, interviews and general demeanor, post show, are indeed helping Nick to get over her much faster.

I would also think that now that Nick is getting a glimpse of the real Andi, he would now understand that it is in his best interest to cut off all communications with anyone associated with the production of the Bachelor show.  Hopefully, he now realizes that they are not his friends.  He can continue his friendships with the guys from the show, if he so desires.  But, Nick needs to just go back to his normal life in Chicago and find himself a good woman that has no aspirations to be in the spotlight.

And, I actually hope that Nick will avoid all of the Bachelor reunions as well, at least for the time being.  And I no longer want him to meet up with Sharleen.  In my opinion, it was apparent in her blog that she is too close a friend of Andi's to be completely unbiased in her take of what went down between Nick and Andi at the end.  And Sharleen's experience on the Bachelor was entirely different from Nick's relationship with Andi.  So, it is like comparing apples to oranges.  You don't understand what you don't know.  Since Sharleen was never in love with Juan Pablo, she does not know what it is like to walk in Nick's shoes.

[Cecilia]

Did anyone see my earlier post:

I'm back bc I watched one more part of the interview with Billy Bush last night. And Nick said that he and Andi slept together and 8 days later got engaged to someone else. If this is true then Nick was the Last FS!! It explains why he was so tan.

Did he have the last FS date? I only think it is significant bc that means she had already been with Josh and he said ILY and she STILL decided to sleep with Nick. Not like I care or necessarily think she shouldn't have, but I still think she should have owned up to her feelings about him a little more.

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/grantland-reality-tv-fantasy-league-ladies-and-gentlemen-we-have-coitus-confirmation/

[Cecilia]

Didn't they show Nick telling CH that he wanted to see Andi? We didn't see CH actually talking to Andi about it but still don't see how Andi can deny that one. We only heard about Nick wanting to see Andy in Mexico from CH so if it's not true then he's the liar. Wonder if she thought that through?   

I really liked Nick's interview on ET.

And didn't Andi herself say that she read the letter Nick sent to her?  I call that reaching out.

As far as if she knew if he was at the MTA or not, don't care.  CH lies, Andi has lied and backtracked so much in the last three days that her head is probably threatening to fall off like a swivel.

Nick never condoned sex, and like Sharleen's friends mentioned to her that Sharleen put in the recap.  It wasn't about having sex, it is about having sex with someone when you don't have the same feelings, it is wrong, be you man or woman, be your partner man or woman.  If everyone is on the same page do what you are both comfortable with.

Just another reason I am completely over MeAndI.  I didn't even look at the people spread and that is the first time ever.  I even looked for Ben and Courtney.

Can we still discuss things in general here.  I honestly am just tired of the hate on Nick out in the general threads and I don't want to deal with it anymore.  I feel like the bachelorette 10 threads are all owned by those who hate Nick, not even the Josh and Andi fans who just like them, but the people who hate Nick.  There are some in the middle, but I don't think they are leaving the Andi and Josh fan thread.

People who spend a lot of time hating on anyone need help.

[nutty1]

I think people can have sex with whoever they want. But I also think people having sex with someone who they know they are definitely misleading…..that is wrong. In this circumstance, it was wrong. There is no way in hell that I believe Andi didn't know at that point. And if she didn't?? Poor Josh….she didn't know who she wanted to marry 5 days before they became engaged AND she slept with someone else 5 days before they became engaged. it's really a no win for Josh…..she either didn't know or she did know and still slept with Nick.

[Cecilia]

^^I just want to go over the timeline. I think she must have slept with Josh first, let Chris go, and then slept with Nick and the dates were shown in the wrong order. Does anyone else agree with this?

[stuckinsc]

Hugs, stuckinSC!!

Thanks Catdwoman. I think you and I are actually thinking a like in a lot of this.

I also like that no matter how we saw the relationship with Nick and Andi we are all friends here. Doesn't matter how or what happened.

I also hope for Nick's sake that this week has taught him that he should not take her back if he ever had the chance.

Kasha, I love your posts. I too am a believer that before you confront others you need to own your own part in what ever the problem is. Disagreements, break ups, etc. are never just one persons fault.

I see some of that in Nick, but I really do wish he had never mentioned that they had sex, because it did in some ways sink him down to Andi's level. I don't see much of owning her part in problems from Andi and that continues to be my problem with her and why the MeAndI that you and Bet2Win developed was so perfect for to me.

I will say that I like the woman of the Murray family, most of what I have seen from them shows compassion while still being strong women, so maybe Andi will learn a little from them.

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