Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

ReneeM wrote:He's allowed to not like JP. It doesn't suddenly call his character into question for loving Andi and not liking JP. The only problem I have with Josh's statement is that he made it publicly.  

I agree with this and I think it's Josh's nature to be very blunt with his feelings (no filter). Athough I feel it would be good for him to curb that in public statements a bit, I actually appreciate his honesty over some of the other contestants that I feel can be two faced and say what they think makes them come across better, even if they don't really feel that way.

stuckinsc wrote:

ReneeM wrote:He's allowed to not like JP. It doesn't suddenly call his character into question for loving Andi and not liking JP. The only problem I have with Josh's statement is that he made it publicly.  

Josh made the tweet about the KC Chiefs, then said we all make mistakes and wanted to be understood.  So I guess his statements about first Nick and now JPG to me show that while Josh wants to be given understanding for his mistakes, he likes to judge others for theirs.

If Josh just chose to not comment about these people he doesn't like, then he wouldn't not seem quite to hypocritical.  JMO.  I simple no comment lets people know that you might not like the other person, but it rises above.

Right because tweeting out that he wished his brother was on a team that would give him more opportunity is the same as Juan Pablo saying "I don't know you, but I love ******* you" to a woman or Nick trying to track down someone else's fiancé for two months, posting tweets/pictures of Andi, writing a love letter to someone else's fiancé asking her to take him back, and then telling millions of people on live television that he had sex with her. Yikes. I see a large, large difference between those "mistakes."

stuckinsc wrote:

Laudergirl wrote:

FLChica wrote:
Like him or hate him, Juan Pablo has never said anything negative about Andi despite her mocking him endlessly even post-Bach show.  When he was specifically asked about Andi being the Bachelorette he said he face timed with her & told her to stay true to herself.  

Josh chose to make a crass and derogatory statement about Juan Pablo that was unnecessary.  What you say about others often says more about your character than theirs.  Note to self, Josh.

Juan Pablo called Andi a liar, or impied it atleast on Couples Therapy. Just saying. That's what he and Nikki were arguing about.  Nikki came to her defense.

What I saw, was that Cecily said if you weren't happy in the FS, say something or leave.  Don't stay and act happy then leave and act like it was torture.

I think that is what most of us who were annoyed by Andi and her behavior thought.

To me that wasn't calling Andi a liar, it was questioning how she behaved in the situation.

One of the reasons I loved Andi on JP's season, then on hers, so much is because I saw a lot of similarities in our personalities, so I have a different point of view. Let's say the producers had nothing to do intervening and Andi decided to stay during the FS and leave the next day on her own. I see why people would question her motives, but for me, who's been in situations similar with people I've dated, It's very possible that Andi acted happy because she WANTED be happy. The bach/ette always thank the contestants for the sacrifices they made to be there, In andi's PoV she sacrificed so much to be there, she didn't want it to be for nothing, so she pretended everything was ok until she couldn't pretend anymore. It happens sometimes, when you want something to work so bad, that you ignore the warning signs until finally you can't ignore them anymore. Even when she left I believe Nikki said something along the lines of 'I knew she had doubts but not enough to leave' or something along those lines

I just love how Nick is always being dragged into Josh/Andi discussions. Other contestants posted pictures/ tweets of Andi as well, and none of the pictures Nick posted show them kissing. The "classless" Nick never said anything negative about them in public post show, and never tweeted anything bachelorette related since early August.
SO, please carry on. I love reading all these!!

sdmom wrote:I just love how Nick is always being dragged into Josh/Andi discussions. Other contestants posted pictures/ tweets of Andi as well, and none of the pictures Nick posted show them kissing. The "classless" Nick never said anything negative about them in public post show, and never tweeted anything bachelorette related since early August.
SO, please carry on. I love reading all these!!

Nick was dragged in by fans of Nick. If he's in a post that you're responding to, it's kind of hard not to respond to it.

sdmom wrote:I just love how Nick is always being dragged into Josh/Andi discussions. Other contestants posted pictures/ tweets of Andi as well, and none of the pictures Nick posted show them kissing. The "classless" Nick never said anything negative about them in public post show, and never tweeted anything bachelorette related since early August.
SO, please carry on. I love reading all these!!

It's not a criticism of Nick. I really like nick, and think he's a great guy, just not the right guy for Andi. But Nick did do something wrong, even with all the justifications for his behaviour, I bet even he wishes he didn't go there on television. I'm saying, for everyone outside of the situation who's defended that action, that thing he did, why can't josh get the benefit of the doubt from them for something as simple (in comparison) as stating that he doesn't like someone and their character and they won't be invited to his wedding.

Laudergirl wrote:

ReneeM wrote:He's allowed to not like JP. It doesn't suddenly call his character into question for loving Andi and not liking JP. The only problem I have with Josh's statement is that he made it publicly.  

I agree with this and I think it's Josh's nature to be very blunt with his feelings (no filter). Athough I feel it would be good for him to curb that in public  statements a bit, I actually appreciate his honesty over some of the other contestants that I feel can be two faced and say what they think makes them come across better, even if they don't really feel that way.

Josh really does wear his emotions on his sleeves, and while I do wish sometimes that he would be more politically correct, his honesty is one of the things I love most about him

I don't blame JPG for being annoyed that instead of saying something when she was upset, Andi laid there all night being angry (I believe these were her words, on FS date after JPG, but if I am wrong please feel free to correct me).

JPG must have taken a break talking about himself, and Andi must have calmed down, during the FS because according to the big news of the day in Bach Aussie land, they quote JPG bedding three women.

True or false? I have

Anyone else that had sex with Andi, don't expect a save the date card.

ReneeM wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Laudergirl wrote:

Juan Pablo called Andi a liar, or impied it atleast on Couples Therapy. Just saying. That's what he and Nikki were arguing about.  Nikki came to her defense.

What I saw, was that Cecily said if you weren't happy in the FS, say something or leave.  Don't stay and act happy then leave and act like it was torture.

I think that is what most of us who were annoyed by Andi and her behavior thought.

To me that wasn't calling Andi a liar, it was questioning how she behaved in the situation.

One of the reasons I loved Andi on JP's season, then on hers, so much is because I saw a lot of similarities in our personalities, so I have a different point of view. Let's say the producers had nothing to do intervening and Andi decided to stay during the FS and leave the next day on her own. I see why people would question her motives, but for me, who's been in situations similar with people I've dated, It's very possible that Andi acted happy because she WANTED be happy. The bach/ette always thank the contestants for the sacrifices they made to be there, In andi's PoV she sacrificed so much to be there, she didn't want it to be for nothing, so she pretended everything was ok until she couldn't pretend anymore. It happens sometimes, when you want something to work so bad, that you ignore the warning signs until finally you can't ignore them anymore. Even when she left I believe Nikki said something along the lines of 'I knew she had doubts but not enough to leave' or something along those lines

Andi said that she sat there all night miserable and faking sleep. This is JMO, but when you chose to stay in a situation where you are miserable and not tell the other person, then you should not complain or blame them. How is someone supposed to help or make it better if they don't know they are doing anything wrong?

I have done this to my hubby once. I was upset, but tried the silent treatment and sat waiting for him to ask and try to make it better. Once I finally got so mad and told him he was mean to not care about me and my feelings he let me know that he didn't realize anything was wrong. He said that if I was upset, I needed to tell him, or he probably would screw up.

I learned a lot from that argument at the beginning of our relationship.

I know I hate it when others get mad at me, but won't tell me why or even give me the chance to do better, exactly how is that fair?

I don't know if this is something that Andi does, I know it was something I did and thank goodness for my hubby, I think him confronting me has helped me to be a better person. I hope Andi might learn from it too.

Ash2214 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

ReneeM wrote:He's allowed to not like JP. It doesn't suddenly call his character into question for loving Andi and not liking JP. The only problem I have with Josh's statement is that he made it publicly.  

Josh made the tweet about the KC Chiefs, then said we all make mistakes and wanted to be understood.  So I guess his statements about first Nick and now JPG to me show that while Josh wants to be given understanding for his mistakes, he likes to judge others for theirs.

If Josh just chose to not comment about these people he doesn't like, then he wouldn't not seem quite to hypocritical.  JMO.  I simple no comment lets people know that you might not like the other person, but it rises above.

Right because tweeting out that he wished his brother was on a team that would give him more opportunity is the same as Juan Pablo saying "I don't know you, but I love ******* you" to a woman or Nick trying to track down someone else's fiancé for two months, posting tweets/pictures of Andi, writing a love letter to someone else's fiancé asking her to take him back, and then telling millions of people on live television that he had sex with her. Yikes. I see a large, large difference between those "mistakes."

Actually Josh's tweet could have effected Aaron's career. It wasn't just an innocent slip. Look at Percy Harvin this week and getting traded to the Jets. Even when you are the most talented player if you cause too much grief then you are not going to get to stay on a team. Percy Harvin has enough talent that he will be given many chances. Aaron is still rehabbing a very serious injury. He does not need to be labelled as a trouble maker or as having a family that causes trouble.

Also, how many of Nick's actions were TPTB directed or produced? We will never know. The letter could have been written right before MTA or right after Nick got home from DR. We don't know. TPTB might have contacted Nick to say that Andi wasn't happy instead of Nick contacting them. Again we will never know. I am told constantly that I don't know what J&A are doing or thinking. I agree, we also don't know what Nick was doing or thinking only the edited version we were shown.

I wish Nick had never asked her that question, I do think CH pushed and pushed until he did, but I said then he shouldn't have said it.

Ultimately forgiveness should be given not based on the "crime" but because it is the Christian thing to do. And if you ask for forgiveness you should also give it.

A simple no comment about people Josh doesn't like would imply that he doesn't like them without crossing over a line.

stuckinsc wrote:

ReneeM wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

What I saw, was that Cecily said if you weren't happy in the FS, say something or leave.  Don't stay and act happy then leave and act like it was torture.

I think that is what most of us who were annoyed by Andi and her behavior thought.

To me that wasn't calling Andi a liar, it was questioning how she behaved in the situation.

One of the reasons I loved Andi on JP's season, then on hers, so much is because I saw a lot of similarities in our personalities, so I have a different point of view. Let's say the producers had nothing to do intervening and Andi decided to stay during the FS and leave the next day on her own. I see why people would question her motives, but for me, who's been in situations similar with people I've dated, It's very possible that Andi acted happy because she WANTED be happy. The bach/ette always thank the contestants for the sacrifices they made to be there, In andi's PoV she sacrificed so much to be there, she didn't want it to be for nothing, so she pretended everything was ok until she couldn't pretend anymore. It happens sometimes, when you want something to work so bad, that you ignore the warning signs until finally you can't ignore them anymore. Even when she left I believe Nikki said something along the lines of 'I knew she had doubts but not enough to leave' or something along those lines

Andi said that she sat there all night miserable and faking sleep.  This is JMO, but when you chose to stay in a situation where you are miserable and not tell the other person, then you should not complain or blame them.  How is someone supposed to help or make it better if they don't know they are doing anything wrong?

I have done this to my hubby once.  I was upset, but tried the silent treatment and sat waiting for him to ask and try to make it better.  Once I finally got so mad and told him he was mean to not care about me and my feelings he let me know that he didn't realize anything was wrong.  He said that if I was upset, I needed to tell him, or he probably would screw up.  

I learned a lot from that argument at the beginning of our relationship.  

I know I hate it when others get mad at me, but won't tell me why or even give me the chance to do better, exactly how is that fair?

I don't know if this is something that Andi does, I know it was something I did and thank goodness for my hubby, I think him confronting me has helped me to be a better person.  I hope Andi might learn from it too.

There's nothing JP could have done at that point. There was no fixing this. This wasn't a tiff in a relationship. This was her realizing that night, that he wasn't the right guy for her and doing everything she could to ignore it, hence her pretending to be happy, because if she confronts it, she admits that she sacrificed so much for what ended up to be nothing (at the time), then has to question her own judgement for not realizing it sooner, and for ignoring the warning signs. The next morning in my opinion was her revelation though, that these aren't things that she can just ignore anymore.

And I disagree with the bolded. It's not that you can't blame the other person, I think you can, it's just that in turn, you ALSO get some of the blame. She's culpable for staying in a situation that made her unhappy but JP created that scenario in the first place.

stuckinsc wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Josh made the tweet about the KC Chiefs, then said we all make mistakes and wanted to be understood.  So I guess his statements about first Nick and now JPG to me show that while Josh wants to be given understanding for his mistakes, he likes to judge others for theirs.

If Josh just chose to not comment about these people he doesn't like, then he wouldn't not seem quite to hypocritical.  JMO.  I simple no comment lets people know that you might not like the other person, but it rises above.

Right because tweeting out that he wished his brother was on a team that would give him more opportunity is the same as Juan Pablo saying "I don't know you, but I love ******* you" to a woman or Nick trying to track down someone else's fiancé for two months, posting tweets/pictures of Andi, writing a love letter to someone else's fiancé asking her to take him back, and then telling millions of people on live television that he had sex with her. Yikes. I see a large, large difference between those "mistakes."

Actually Josh's tweet could have effected Aaron's career.  It wasn't just an innocent slip.  Look at Percy Harvin this week and getting traded to the Jets.  Even when you are the most talented player if you cause too much grief then you are not going to get to stay on a team.  Percy Harvin has enough talent that he will be given many chances.  Aaron is still rehabbing a very serious injury.  He does not need to be labelled as a trouble maker or as having a family that causes trouble.

Also, how many of Nick's actions were TPTB directed or produced?  We will never know.  The letter could have been written right before MTA or right after Nick got home from DR.  We don't know.  TPTB might have contacted Nick to say that Andi wasn't happy instead of Nick contacting them.  Again we will never know.  I am told constantly that I don't know what J&A are doing or thinking.  I agree, we also don't know what Nick was doing or thinking only the edited version we were shown.

I wish Nick had never asked her that question, I do think CH pushed and pushed until he did, but I said then he shouldn't have said it.  

Ultimately forgiveness should be given not based on the "crime" but because it is the Christian thing to do.  And if you ask for forgiveness you should also give it.

A simple no comment about people Josh doesn't like would imply that he doesn't like them without crossing over a line.

I agree with most of what you are saying. However per the bolded, in CH's blog he said what was left out in that MTA taping was the fact that CH told Nick that Josh and Andi have a real relationship and that he respects Josh. So to me, it didn't seem as though it was TPTB initiated. Also, bare in mind Nick's plane video he implied that Jason Mesnick had a change of heart on the AFTR. So to me, those two things lead me to believe that Nick initiated the MTA visit, but then again, it's JMHO.