Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

Wow Lucas, you really broke it down. I enjoyed reading it!

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General Discussion Couples

bamagal wrote:To all of you, who have added so much insight to this season, THANK YOU!  I have spent many hours since the airing of the ATFR watching my favorite segments of the season.  However, I have a "favorite" of the initial interviews following the finale that I am unable to locate.  Perhaps one of you can help me find it -- the interview when Andi says (paraphrasing here) -- Since the finale, I have mentioned "I can't wait to get engaged, and Josh has reminded me that we are engaged, just can't wear the ring yet!"  I LOVE this insight into her "girly" side.  Any ideas on where I can find this video clip, so I can watch it again?  Thanks, y'all!

Can't swear to it but that may be the Huffington interview.
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/the-bachelorette-andi-dorfman/53cd95ec02a760ed85000636

Lucas15 wrote:Now here Andi made her first real tactical blunder. She SHOULD have said "I am more than a million percent sure" instead of "I do too". I think she was sure (by this time Josh had actually told her he loved her and wanted to marry her) but trying to save a little bit of Nick's feelings backfired on her and probably set up Nick's expectations of a Mesnick. Perhaps there was no way to have avoided it anyway but this is the one place where Andi could have done better.

Now roll the calendar ahead 2 months to the ATFR. Andi has now seen what we saw, including the conversations of an overly confident Nick and the guys, probably the deleted scene of Nick talking about his dog named Murray and how she and Josh are terrible together, and also what Nick said about her (and Josh) on the plane video, because that's how the stage was set for ATFR.

Even if you're not ADA Andi - what would your mind-set be?

 

I agree with you here and, in fact, when I first heard Nick utter the question, I hoped Andi would respond in the way you suggested.  However, I am not sure that she was doing it so much to save Nick's feelings as she was trying to keep her relationship with Josh (out of respect for that relationship) completely removed from that conversation.  As she said in her narrative prior to coming to Nick's room, she knew  "in order to make her F1 happy, she had to do the hard thing"

As far as your point in a subsequent post about Josh's and Andi's interactions at the ATFR lending evidence to a relationship that has grown through familiarity and additional contact, I definitely see the same.  As you may or may not know, Josh in one of his interviews admitted that they basically have been together 24/7 since the finale save when Andi was out of town on business.  I think their banter has been in sync from the get-go as illustrated by their sushi and in the pool conversation during the M&G it is now almost seamless as demonstrated in the TV Guide interview especially when they are talking about "poppin out babies."  While I agree that their relationship seems to be mutually growth producing, I find the evolution in Andi much more profound.  She herself admitted that she used to be much more sensitive to criticism (and I certainly can give many examples of witnessing this) but she has been able to borrow Josh's easier attitude as well as his ability to self-deprecate.  Further, I have no doubt that Josh being able to take the FS thing with Nick not only in stride but remain resolved in her commitment to protect her and love her unconditionally was incredibly healing for Andi thereby allowing her guard to retire.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/Bachelorette-Andi-Josh-1085060.aspx

docnash14 wrote:

bamagal wrote:To all of you, who have added so much insight to this season, THANK YOU!  I have spent many hours since the airing of the ATFR watching my favorite segments of the season.  However, I have a "favorite" of the initial interviews following the finale that I am unable to locate.  Perhaps one of you can help me find it -- the interview when Andi says (paraphrasing here) -- Since the finale, I have mentioned "I can't wait to get engaged, and Josh has reminded me that we are engaged, just can't wear the ring yet!"  I LOVE this insight into her "girly" side.  Any ideas on where I can find this video clip, so I can watch it again?  Thanks, y'all!

Can't swear to it but that may be the Huffington interview.
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/the-bachelorette-andi-dorfman/53cd95ec02a760ed85000636

THAT'S IT! Thanks!     

Alanna wrote:Great analysis, Lucas! I think you bring up a great point that unlike most leads that tell their f2s "you're amazing but I'm in love with someone else," she actually gave a reason why their specific relationship isn't right, in addition to there being someone else as well.

For atfr, I think she was so guarded and came ready for a fight not only because he kept contacting her but all of his comments about Josh, both in the Steve video and also on the show. Josh is like a part of her at this point, and the things Nick has said about him- that he's basically the simplest form of life out there, bad temper, dog named Murray, on and on- have probably pushed her over the edge.

In retrospect, I understand why she looked so anxious when she first came out for that segment! She was TICKED and trying to stay classy! Just wondering, but Nick HAD to have known at this point that she BROKE A BASEBALL BAT with her powerful swing in the DR -- what WAS he thinking?  

bamagal wrote:

Alanna wrote:Great analysis, Lucas! I think you bring up a great point that unlike most leads that tell their f2s "you're amazing but I'm in love with someone else," she actually gave a reason why their specific relationship isn't right, in addition to there being someone else as well.

For atfr, I think she was so guarded and came ready for a fight not only because he kept contacting her but all of his comments about Josh, both in the Steve video and also on the show. Josh is like a part of her at this point, and the things Nick has said about him- that he's basically the simplest form of life out there, bad temper, dog named Murray, on and on- have probably pushed her over the edge.

In retrospect, I understand why she looked so anxious when she first came out for that segment!  She was TICKED and trying to stay classy!  Just wondering, but Nick HAD to have known at this point that she BROKE A BASEBALL BAT with her powerful swing in the DR -- what WAS he thinking?  

hahaha... the bolded, a very good question!

I think Andi always had the ability to self-deprecate in her humor, one example being the hilarious clip where she demonstrated to Nikki how she danced with JPG, but I agree she was really sensitive to criticism and just so much less happy and secure before Josh. I'm sure she also had the ability to be loving, affectionate and nurturing before him too. So he hasn't changed her so much, she talked about adoring her kids before their engagement, but he has definitely brought out her best side IMO. Their banter is adorable, you can tell how well they understand each other and communicate. Romantic besties indeed.

docnash14 wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:Now here Andi made her first real tactical blunder. She SHOULD have said "I am more than a million percent sure" instead of "I do too". I think she was sure (by this time Josh had actually told her he loved her and wanted to marry her) but trying to save a little bit of Nick's feelings backfired on her and probably set up Nick's expectations of a Mesnick. Perhaps there was no way to have avoided it anyway but this is the one place where Andi could have done better.

Now roll the calendar ahead 2 months to the ATFR. Andi has now seen what we saw, including the conversations of an overly confident Nick and the guys, probably the deleted scene of Nick talking about his dog named Murray and how she and Josh are terrible together, and also what Nick said about her (and Josh) on the plane video, because that's how the stage was set for ATFR.

Even if you're not ADA Andi - what would your mind-set be?

 

I agree with you here and, in fact, when I first heard Nick utter the question, I hoped Andi would respond in the way you suggested.  However, I am not sure that she was doing it so much to save Nick's feelings as she was trying to keep her relationship with Josh (out of respect for that relationship) completely removed from that conversation.  As she said in her narrative prior to coming to Nick's room, she knew  "in order to make her F1 happy, she had to do the hard thing"

As far as your point in a subsequent post about Josh's and Andi's interactions at the ATFR lending evidence to a relationship that has grown through familiarity and additional contact, I definitely see the same.  As you may or may not know, Josh in one of his interviews admitted that they basically have been together 24/7 since the finale save when Andi was out of town on business.  I think their banter has been in sync from the get-go as illustrated by their sushi and in the pool conversation during the M&G it is now almost seamless as demonstrated in the TV Guide interview especially when they are talking about "poppin out babies."  While I agree that their relationship seems to be mutually growth producing, I find the evolution in Andi much more profound.  She herself admitted that she used to be much more sensitive to criticism (and I certainly can give many examples of witnessing this) but she has been able to borrow Josh's easier attitude as well as his ability to self-deprecate.  Further, I have no doubt that Josh being able to take the FS thing with Nick not only in stride but remain resolved in her commitment to protect her and love her unconditionally was incredibly healing for Andi thereby allowing her guard to retire.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/Bachelorette-Andi-Josh-1085060.aspx

Quite my favorite interview. That "but you can't have the baby" interaction between the two of them is SO hilarious and intimate. Love it!

Relalou wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:Now here Andi made her first real tactical blunder. She SHOULD have said "I am more than a million percent sure" instead of "I do too". I think she was sure (by this time Josh had actually told her he loved her and wanted to marry her) but trying to save a little bit of Nick's feelings backfired on her and probably set up Nick's expectations of a Mesnick. Perhaps there was no way to have avoided it anyway but this is the one place where Andi could have done better.

Now roll the calendar ahead 2 months to the ATFR. Andi has now seen what we saw, including the conversations of an overly confident Nick and the guys, probably the deleted scene of Nick talking about his dog named Murray and how she and Josh are terrible together, and also what Nick said about her (and Josh) on the plane video, because that's how the stage was set for ATFR.

Even if you're not ADA Andi - what would your mind-set be?

 

I agree with you here and, in fact, when I first heard Nick utter the question, I hoped Andi would respond in the way you suggested.  However, I am not sure that she was doing it so much to save Nick's feelings as she was trying to keep her relationship with Josh (out of respect for that relationship) completely removed from that conversation.  As she said in her narrative prior to coming to Nick's room, she knew  "in order to make her F1 happy, she had to do the hard thing"

As far as your point in a subsequent post about Josh's and Andi's interactions at the ATFR lending evidence to a relationship that has grown through familiarity and additional contact, I definitely see the same.  As you may or may not know, Josh in one of his interviews admitted that they basically have been together 24/7 since the finale save when Andi was out of town on business.  I think their banter has been in sync from the get-go as illustrated by their sushi and in the pool conversation during the M&G it is now almost seamless as demonstrated in the TV Guide interview especially when they are talking about "poppin out babies."  While I agree that their relationship seems to be mutually growth producing, I find the evolution in Andi much more profound.  She herself admitted that she used to be much more sensitive to criticism (and I certainly can give many examples of witnessing this) but she has been able to borrow Josh's easier attitude as well as his ability to self-deprecate.  Further, I have no doubt that Josh being able to take the FS thing with Nick not only in stride but remain resolved in her commitment to protect her and love her unconditionally was incredibly healing for Andi thereby allowing her guard to retire.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/Bachelorette-Andi-Josh-1085060.aspx

Quite my favorite interview.  That "but you can't have the baby" interaction between the two of them is SO hilarious and intimate.  Love it!

I love this too! They way Josh starts snapping his fingers! It seems like they have been together for years.

docnash14 wrote:I agree with you here and, in fact, when I first heard Nick utter the question, I hoped Andi would respond in the way you suggested.  However, I am not sure that she was doing it so much to save Nick's feelings as she was trying to keep her relationship with Josh (out of respect for that relationship) completely removed from that conversation.  As she said in her narrative prior to coming to Nick's room, she knew  "in order to make her F1 happy, she had to do the hard thing"

I think she did try to keep Josh and their relationship out of the conversation. That was so evident when Nick asked the question "Is this more about us or someone else?" which is a question I think she had anticipated. instead of the typical "Thanks for coming on this journey with me but I'm in love with someone else" she only said "I'm sorry". I'm not sure she anticipated part 2 "I just hope that you're a million percent sure and not scared.". Reading the transcription of the scene fails a little compared to watching it. Andi's answer was so hard to hear I had to put on headphones, turn up the volume all the way and play it about 5 times. It was almost not an answer to Nick but rather an inner thought that she was expressing not to Nick but to herself. Maybe this was something she hadn't thought of, maybe she still was a little scared (not necessarily about Nick but possibly the vulnerability she was now exposing with her choice of Josh). That comment of hers was definitely coming from a different place inside herself than the rest of what she said.

Regardless of why she said that, whether planned or unplanned and thinking on her feet, I don't believe she anticipated what would happen afterwards (that Nick would come back for further debate on the breakup) because I think if she had even an inkling that might happen, she would have been clearer that her decision was final for better or worse and this was the end of the road for her and Nick. That finality didn't happen in Nick's mind until 2+ months later, or so it appears.

As you may or may not know, Josh in one of his interviews admitted that they basically have been together 24/7 since the finale save when Andi was out of town on business.

I had heard that and no doubt that extensive amount of time they had spent together really influenced the relationship we see now. This is not the typical show guy and gal just out of the bubble but a much more mature couple.

I find the evolution in Andi much more profound.  She herself admitted that she used to be much more sensitive to criticism (and I certainly can give many examples of witnessing this) but she has been able to borrow Josh's easier attitude as well as his ability to self-deprecate.  Further, I have no doubt that Josh being able to take the FS thing with Nick not only in stride but remain resolved in her commitment to protect her and love her unconditionally was incredibly healing for Andi thereby allowing her guard to retire.

I just wonder if at the time she broke up with Nick she had already told Josh about what had happened in the fantasy suite, or if that came later. There was certainly a "shot across the bow" to warn Andi that Nick questioned that ("certain things I wish you would never have said ... or done") and she knew then she would have to tell Josh and she might not have known at the time how supportive Josh would be. That might have given her a reason to hope she had not made a mistake if she didn't yet know how Josh would react.

Clearly Josh's love and support of Andi has changed her - it's so clear to us and we are so removed from a real close-up view. Andi is I think a much better person with Josh and I'd bet she sees and feels that clear difference. That "Ah HA" moment she talked about in the FS with Josh drinking wine which she described as "I realized I was with my best friend" may be combined with some other emotions more like "This is the person I want to be. I love this "me.""

That inner satisfaction and love of herself and security in Josh's love of her would go a long way towards letting criticism slide off without reacting to it.

Lucas15 wrote:

docnash14 wrote:I agree with you here and, in fact, when I first heard Nick utter the question, I hoped Andi would respond in the way you suggested.  However, I am not sure that she was doing it so much to save Nick's feelings as she was trying to keep her relationship with Josh (out of respect for that relationship) completely removed from that conversation.  As she said in her narrative prior to coming to Nick's room, she knew  "in order to make her F1 happy, she had to do the hard thing"

I think she did try to keep Josh and their relationship out of the conversation. That was so evident when Nick asked the question "Is this more about us or someone else?" which is a question I think she had anticipated. instead of the typical "Thanks for coming on this journey with me but I'm in love with someone else" she only said "I'm sorry". I'm not sure she anticipated part 2 "I just hope that you're a million percent sure and not scared.". Reading the transcription of the scene fails a little compared to watching it. Andi's answer was so hard to hear I had to put on headphones, turn up the volume all the way and play it about 5 times. It was almost not an answer to Nick but rather an inner thought that she was expressing not to Nick but to herself. Maybe this was something she hadn't thought of, maybe she still was a little scared (not necessarily about Nick but possibly the vulnerability she was now exposing with her choice of Josh). That comment of hers was definitely coming from a different place inside herself than the rest of what she said.

Regardless of why she said that, whether planned or unplanned and thinking on her feet, I don't believe she anticipated what would happen afterwards (that Nick would come back for further debate on the breakup) because I think if she had even an inkling that might happen, she would have been clearer that her decision was final for better or worse and this was the end of the road for her and Nick. That finality didn't happen in Nick's mind until 2+ months later, or so it appears.

As you may or may not know, Josh in one of his interviews admitted that they basically have been together 24/7 since the finale save when Andi was out of town on business.

I had heard that and no doubt that extensive amount of time they had spent together really influenced the relationship we see now. This is not the typical show guy and gal just out of the bubble but a much more mature couple.

I find the evolution in Andi much more profound.  She herself admitted that she used to be much more sensitive to criticism (and I certainly can give many examples of witnessing this) but she has been able to borrow Josh's easier attitude as well as his ability to self-deprecate.  Further, I have no doubt that Josh being able to take the FS thing with Nick not only in stride but remain resolved in her commitment to protect her and love her unconditionally was incredibly healing for Andi thereby allowing her guard to retire.

I just wonder if at the time she broke up with Nick she had already told Josh about what had happened in the fantasy suite, or if that came later. There was certainly a "shot across the bow" to warn Andi that Nick questioned that ("certain things I wish you would never have said ... or done") and she knew then she would have to tell Josh and she might not have known at the time how supportive Josh would be. That might have given her a reason to hope she had not made a mistake if she didn't yet know how Josh would react.

Clearly Josh's love and support of Andi has changed her - it's so clear to us and we are so removed from a real close-up view. Andi is I think a much better person with Josh and I'd bet she sees and feels that clear difference. That "Ah HA" moment she talked about in the FS with Josh drinking wine which she described as "I realized I was with my best friend" may be combined with some other emotions more like "This is the person I want to be. I love this "me.""

That inner satisfaction and love of herself and security in Josh's love of her would go a long way towards letting criticism slide off without reacting to it.

Great post and quite probable i think in light of what we know about Andi. Seems like the "open and honest" quote happens quite a lot in Andi/Josh interviews which is a low key way of indicating that Josh knew what had happened with Nick. Andi is a lawyer for goodness sake and, as such, she must know and have a keen understanding of truth and it's power vs. lies and their danger. You are right, Nick's comment regarding wishing she hadn't done things she had done, would have served as a warning and his pursuit of her afterwards would have rung an alarm bell. If Andi was on her FS or LCD with Josh and thinking "yup he's the guy", she would have been wise to put the truth out there and see how he responded BEFORE she had him propose on national TV. I believe she is a wise woman who may or may not have regretted sleeping with Nick, but she would have wanted to deal with the fall out. With Josh, she said she had doubts; Josh's response to the truth may have helped her to trust the "unconditional" (his words) love he claimed to have for her.