Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

stuckinsc wrote:So slight topic change or question.  Josh has said he very much wants children soon and Andi wants them at some point.  

I want to ask the parents on this board.  What do you teach your child to do when someone insults them or might do something mean.  Do you teach them that you should remove them from your life and not speak to them?  Or do you do what my parents taught me to do, try to find out why and work it out with them.  If it can't be worked out, then sure avoid them, but don't give up without trying to work out some sort of resolution.

I wonder if Josh is going to tell his children to just cut anyone who says or does something that might not be nice out of their life without trying to resolve it.  It seems that is how he responded to Kacie favoriting/liking something not nice about Andi or maybe too nice to her and therefore mean to Andi.  Just seems like a bit of an overreaction.  Which has then grown in scope from there.

Is this how we are really raising kids these days.  I have people I don't always like around me and I am sure there are people who don't like me.  But we still have to interact and function, we can't just cut each other out of our lives and not interact.  

thanks for your last post. With Andi.. she does something called "splitting" imo, where people are either all good or all bad. We saw it with how she dismissed Nick and Eric. Josh I'm afraid, may be reinforcing this in her out of misguided "loyalty". In this one particular way, Nick may have offered her a better perspective. People are usually a mix of both and everything in between, not to mention a work in progress. This is what I tell my kiddos.

grace8136 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:So slight topic change or question.  Josh has said he very much wants children soon and Andi wants them at some point.  

I want to ask the parents on this board.  What do you teach your child to do when someone insults them or might do something mean.  Do you teach them that you should remove them from your life and not speak to them?  Or do you do what my parents taught me to do, try to find out why and work it out with them.  If it can't be worked out, then sure avoid them, but don't give up without trying to work out some sort of resolution.

I wonder if Josh is going to tell his children to just cut anyone who says or does something that might not be nice out of their life without trying to resolve it.  It seems that is how he responded to Kacie favoriting/liking something not nice about Andi or maybe too nice to her and therefore mean to Andi.  Just seems like a bit of an overreaction.  Which has then grown in scope from there.

Is this how we are really raising kids these days.  I have people I don't always like around me and I am sure there are people who don't like me.  But we still have to interact and function, we can't just cut each other out of our lives and not interact.  

thanks for your last post. With Andi.. she does something called "splitting" imo, where people are either all good or all bad. We saw it with how she dismissed Nick and Eric. Josh I'm afraid, may be reinforcing this in her out of misguided "loyalty". In this one particular way, Nick may have offered her a better perspective. People are usually a mix of both and everything in between, not to mention a work in progress. This is what I tell my kiddos.

Thank you. I was totally type A as a child. I grew up poor and I was going to study and get of the trailer park, so my first B killed me. The first time I did something wrong, I cried and cried. My poor dad was the warmest guy and he would always tell me, that there was one perfect person in this world and they hung him from a cross. The rest of us just do the best we can. I try to remember that. No one is all good or all bad, some mixture of the two. I wish I saw these two learning that instead of reinforcing the idea.

To me it is not a good idea to always just cut out someone you disagree with. How do you learn that way?

If there is drama in this family, which we aren't sure about, we really don't know who feels the most hurt here and why.

If the Murrays are hurt by Josh "leaving" them to be with Andi, why don't they visit Josh and Andi in atl? IIRC they have visited Aaron and Kacie at least 2x, maybe 3x in KC, and have gone to his game in Charlotte. Meanwhile, Denny has never visited atl and Lauren visited once when she was going to drop Stephanie off at school and to bring Sabel home. Did they ask if they can visit and Andi sternly announced to Josh, "No way, your parents aren't allowed in atl!" I doubt it. Is Josh expected to tell Andi, "Sorry babe, I can't be your date at a wedding because I literally have to stand in the shadows while Aaron proposes to Kacie?" Maybe! Seems that was the way things went before Josh moved to atl and went on the show.

Josh unfriending his family and not wishing A/K congrats or his mom a happy bday, at least publicly when he is so active on sm, is just ridiculous too. No excuse for that and I've already posted about this before and what I think about it.

stuckinsc wrote:So slight topic change or question.  Josh has said he very much wants children soon and Andi wants them at some point.  

I want to ask the parents on this board.  What do you teach your child to do when someone insults them or might do something mean.  Do you teach them that you should remove them from your life and not speak to them?  Or do you do what my parents taught me to do, try to find out why and work it out with them.  If it can't be worked out, then sure avoid them, but don't give up without trying to work out some sort of resolution.

I wonder if Josh is going to tell his children to just cut anyone who says or does something that might not be nice out of their life without trying to resolve it.  It seems that is how he responded to Kacie favoriting/liking something not nice about Andi or maybe too nice to her and therefore mean to Andi.  Just seems like a bit of an overreaction.  Which has then grown in scope from there.

Is this how we are really raising kids these days.  I have people I don't always like around me and I am sure there are people who don't like me.  But we still have to interact and function, we can't just cut each other out of our lives and not interact.  

I wasn't going to comment on here again, but I feel the need to respond to this. I am a mother of two teens. And to the first bolded above, yes, I have advised them at times to ignore insults and negative people. But it depends on the situation and how well you know the person. If it's someone you care about and are close to, it's wise to confront the issue. If it's an acquaintance or stranger, they don't know you anyway, so anything negative they say is typically just to feed their own insecurities. Why feed into that. That is where I would choose to ignore them. I feel this advice has served my family well as we have so far survived the tough teen years, multiple sports teams, school functions etc. and have come out on top with caring, well adjusted, confident children.

Someone on this board has claimed they think Andi is terrible for blocking people on SM that are negative or insulting towards her and Josh. Good for her! That is EXACTLY what I would do and would advise my children to do. These people don't know Andi. Ignore them and focus on the positive!

In how this relates to the Murrays, I would agree that IF there is something going on, it should be discussed maturely and hopefully resolved. You've made it abundantly clear that you feel Josh is the one being immature and pulling away from his family. This is what I have a problem with. First, you are not privy to any of the private conversations that these family members have had, so it's all speculation on your part based on what....SM??? Not the most reliable indicator. Second, you claim you feel Josh is lashing out at Kacie because of her poor choice in favoriting rude tweets regarding Andi. There may or may not be something there, but the timing doesn't match for that to be the reason for him to unfriend his brother or mom. She favorited those tweets back during the airing of the show. All seemed fine in the family following that. Josh and Andi have spent time with his family , most recently a few weeks ago, and all seemed good. I know you don't agree with the choice for Andi and Josh to leave after that UGA game to go to a concert, but I don't see anything wrong with that. They spent most of the day with his family and are tying to find balance in their own lives. I seriously doubt MM had an issue with that.

The thing is, both Andi and Josh come from very strong family backgrounds where their parents have been together 30+ years, and the siblings have remained very close. This is a great foundation for their relationship. I seriously doubt that either of them would want to do anything to jeopardize these family bonds, and certainly not by being petty and immature.  There may be issues for them to deal with integrating new members and personalities into the families, and there may be some bumps along the way, but I think they will definitely make the effort, and not just pull away or break ties. There certainly is no evidence to prove that this is what is happening, just speculation.

Laudergirl wrote:duplicate post

Good post Laudergirl.

Since we don't know them personally and don't have the slightest clue as to if anything is going on or what is exactly, I think it's funny that people are ridiculing Josh and Aaron for doing certain things, such as unfollowing each other on Twitter or their significant others. The key thing here is that we don't know them. We don't know what happened. Maybe there's a reason for it. And since we don't know them, it's annoying to see "I wish they would just have a conversation about it." Is social media more important nowadays? There is a thing called a telephone. And of course since it's done in private, which is how it should be, they could have conversation and they could be having them frequently.

I'm sure everyone has gotten into some sticky times with their families and I'm sure all of you have done some questionable things. I guess it's just funny to me that we can ridicule people we don't know and make into this huge deal and won't drop it, but yet we've all done some stupid things.

Also, I don't understand how people who like Josh and Andi and therefore like Josh's family were told all weekend we should essentially be ashamed for talking about the family here, but yet  those who told us and even said they loved the Murray family and their dynamic are still posting about the Murray's and Josh and essentially are the ones continuously bringing it up. This isn't to tell people what to post, but I don't think it's fair that some people are basically told to stop posting because it's awful what we're doing, but then those who said that can post freely.

Again, this isn't to tell people how or what to post. Everyone can freely do that if it's in the rules, of course. It's more so just confused questions really. I'm all for speculation as I've been a part of this conversation all weekend, but I do think that since we know absolutely nothing, it can only be beaten for so long. Again, anyone can post what they want.

Yes, I speculate that Josh is pulling away.  As you speculate that he is not. Neither of us is privy to what is actually going on and we are speculating, all of us.  I may be right and you may be right.  Only time will tell. As for Josh's reaction to Kacie who he does know and had spent time with, did he not immediately unfriend her and delete all her pictures?  That was written and posted by a Jodi fan not me.  If I rewrote incorrect data, as I can't go back in time and confirm.  I usually defer to fans of a couple to know what is going on with them better than I do.  If I am wrong about the timing of Josh cutting Kacie out of his life then I am sorry and will be happy to be corrected.  

And yes, Josh and Andi could have done both this weekend.  They could easily have spent Friday in KC and flew into NC Saturday for the wedding.  Again, they did this with the Decker event, so when they want to they do that.

I spent three years of marriage balancing holidays between Texas and South Florida and the last seven between GA and TN, six hours apart.  It takes a huge amount of balance.  Not easy, I get that.  We have driven that six hours through the mountains to  get from one set of parents to the other often late on Thanksgiving or Early Christmas morning, so I know it isn't easy.  Thankfully as my dad got sick my MIL told us to not rush to them, that I was on limited time with my dad and to enjoy him while I had him.  I am lucky to have a MIL who is so wonderful and understanding.

As to the Murrays visiting ATL, I will repeat that MM was invited to KC by Kacie and Aaron.  Have Josh and Andi extended the same courtesy?  I have no idea, just as you don't either.  I know that with Andi's attitude on the HTD, I would wait to be invited up if I was them, not just show up, because then the would be accused of not cutting the cord.

I don't know what is happening with the Murrays.  I know somethings, but hardly anything.  I won't criticize MM for going where she is invited.  I haven't criticized Josh and Andi for going to NYC or any of the places where they are invited, but yup, to give up family time when you know your mom is going through a bad time to go to a concert.  Yup, I think that is silly.  Maybe I place a different value on family then you do, that is okay for both of us.  

But, then why do I constantly read that it is awesome that they get to have weekly meals with the Dorfmans.  Which is it, family time is important or not?  Or is it only important if it is Andi's family?

I am so confused.

None of us knows what is going on here.  But we have seen Josh who always wished his family well on SM, not do that.  That is fact and a change in behavior.  I can note that as it is evidence.

Anything else is speculation on both our parts which as part of this board we are allowed to do. All opinions welcome.  When I get annoyed at the negativity in the CT thread, I am reminded that there is a fan thread if I am upset by the negative posts.

Ash2214 wrote:[snip]

Again, this isn't to tell people how or what to post. Everyone can freely do that if it's in the rules, of course. It's more so just confused questions really. I'm all for speculation as I've been a part of this conversation all weekend, but I do think that since we know absolutely nothing, it can only be beaten for so long. Again, anyone can post what they want.

Haha so true, we can start our own glue factory for the poor ponies we've beaten to death here. Watch out, Elmer's!

Alanna wrote:If there is drama in this family, which we aren't sure about, we really don't know who feels the most hurt here and why.

If the Murrays are hurt by Josh "leaving" them to be with Andi, why don't they visit Josh and Andi in atl? IIRC they have visited Aaron and Kacie at least 2x, maybe 3x in KC, and have gone to his game in Charlotte. Meanwhile, Denny has never visited atl and Lauren visited once when she was going to drop Stephanie off at school and to bring Sabel home. Did they ask if they can visit and Andi sternly announced to Josh, "No way, your parents aren't allowed in atl!" I doubt it. Is Josh expected to tell Andi, "Sorry babe, I can't be your date at a wedding because I literally have to stand in the shadows while Aaron proposes to Kacie?" Maybe! Seems that was the way things went before Josh moved to atl and went on the show.

Josh unfriending his family and not wishing A/K congrats or his mom a happy bday, at least publicly when he is so active on sm, is just ridiculous too. No excuse for that and I've already posted about this before and what I think about it.

As a parent of 2 young adults with signif others I will add my 2 cents.
 I do not ask to be invited to  anything. If my children want to see me/and or their father and be a part of their busy lives, I let them reach out to me and do not butt in or do anything that might innocently smack of that.  That is the easiest road to isolation, resentment and misunderstandings.  I have witnessed this more times than I can say--thankfully not involving myself. JMHOAA. 
I feel very blessed that my children seek us out, allow us to care for their child(my grandchild) and involve us in their lives frequently. It's an honor. They know our door is always open. We are as flexible as we can be and if things don't work out, they don't work out.  
Keeping expectations low is a good thing. Love can be shown in so many ways other than physically, and that's a great thing.

Kashathediva wrote:

Alanna wrote:If there is drama in this family, which we aren't sure about, we really don't know who feels the most hurt here and why.

If the Murrays are hurt by Josh "leaving" them to be with Andi, why don't they visit Josh and Andi in atl? IIRC they have visited Aaron and Kacie at least 2x, maybe 3x in KC, and have gone to his game in Charlotte. Meanwhile, Denny has never visited atl and Lauren visited once when she was going to drop Stephanie off at school and to bring Sabel home. Did they ask if they can visit and Andi sternly announced to Josh, "No way, your parents aren't allowed in atl!" I doubt it. Is Josh expected to tell Andi, "Sorry babe, I can't be your date at a wedding because I literally have to stand in the shadows while Aaron proposes to Kacie?" Maybe! Seems that was the way things went before Josh moved to atl and went on the show.

Josh unfriending his family and not wishing A/K congrats or his mom a happy bday, at least publicly when he is so active on sm, is just ridiculous too. No excuse for that and I've already posted about this before and what I think about it.

As a parent of 2 young adults with signif others I will add my 2 cents.
 I do not ask to be invited to  anything. If my children want to see me/and or their father and be a part of their busy lives, I let them reach out to me and do not butt in or do anything that might innocently smack of that.  That is the easiest road to isolation, resentment and misunderstandings.  I have witnessed this more times than I can say--thankfully not involving myself. JMHOAA. 
I feel very blessed that my children seek us out, allow us to care for their child(my grandchild) and involve us in their lives frequently. It's an honor. They know our door is always open. We are as flexible as we can be and if things don't work out, they don't work out.  
Keeping expectations low is a good thing. Love can be shown in so many ways other than physically, and that's a great thing.

You're right. My point was relationships go both ways, parent/child ones included. JMO also.

Andddddd I'm done harping on this, at least for the next several hours

The only time we are invited to my stepchildren's is when they are cooking or something special is going on. Other than that if we want to visit we just go over. We sure do not wait to be invited to visit them.

nannymargie wrote:The only time we are invited to my stepchildren's is when they are cooking or something special is going on.  Other than that if we want to visit we just go over.  We sure do not wait to be invited to visit them.

Has your in law child accused you of not cutting the cord and made fun of you as immature? If they did would you feel free to go over whenever you wanted? I am not trying to fight, I really am not. But Andi in her words that she spoke at Josh's HTD made it abundantly clear that Josh need to separate himself and not be as close to the Murrays. If I had heard those words, I would wait for an invitation.

I just wonder if MM was showing up in ATL, would people be criticizing her for not letting him go and not cutting the cord.

We do know that if invited MM is happy to show up.