Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

LOL. you must have never, ever had an ex?  I have never once thought about any of my bf exs while he is with me an I doubt he thinks about who I have been with either....Let me repeat Andi was in a relationship with both Nick and Josh they were on a reality dating show it's not like Andi cheated on Josh because they were not in an exclusive relationship...  I have maintain this stance from the beginning that when you go on this show jealousy can't have any part because this is not like real life dating, the lead  is dating 24 other people, hopefully in the real world you will be the only one, but let's get real a lot of times even in the real world you are not the only one.....So for me when I read post after the post about how amazing Josh is to forgive Andi for sleeping with Nick I am literally shaking my head, they were NOT in an exclusive relationship Andi was still in a relationship with Nick an if she wanted to have sex with him why not?  If that what she wanted to do, she didn't have a ring on her finger from either of them.....  I 100% agree that Josh is an amazing man but forgiving Andi for sleeping with Nick, nah he came onto the show he knew that if he were the F1 there was a chance that Andi might have been intimate with someone else that's one of the cons of being on this show if your ego or pride can't wrap around that concept then don't come on the show that's my opinion..  I will give Andi 100% PROPS for being honest with Josh in the FS that she was intimate with Nick that was for the best because look what happen, I adore Andi and Josh together to me the are the real deal, can't wait until their wedding..

sbolduc wrote:

docnash14 wrote:

Alanna wrote:Man, am I the only one who thinks these two don't even know or remember who or what the N-word even refers to anymore, unless asked? They remind me of those couples that once they're together, it's like previous exes never even existed because it's weird that at one point in life they weren't together. I doubt they're holding on to any grudges or need to offer any forgiveness because her f2 is so irrelevant in their life. Jmo.

Won't disagree, although, in my opinion, the forgiveness process is usually a component of our own healing process and has more to do with our relationship with ourselves rather than with the person who has wronged us.  So we can reach forgiveness without addressing that person.

I would never expect Andi or Josh to make a public announcement of forgiveness to Nick, that is ridiculous IMO. Nor do I think they would formally forgive Nick in person, I just don't see that happening, nor would I ever expect that.

To the bolded, couldn't agree more, I think the sooner they "forgive" Nick internally the sooner they will actually move on and put that behind them. Without forgiveness a person, IMO, will continue to harbour internal resentment towards that person and things related to them, which can be destructive to your other relationships. They may have already reached this point, I am not them so I can't judge whether they have or not forgiven him.

Pictures are just snapshots of "happiness" that can be slight glimpses in life, in between all the other, sometimes not so happy moments, the moments that make a real relationship or life are more frequently than not captured.

Time will tell for these two, as it has with any other bachelor/ette couple, IMHO.

Totally agree

luvlady345 wrote:LOL. you must have never, ever had an ex?  I have never once thought about any of my bf exs while he is with me an I doubt he thinks about who I have been with either....Let me repeat Andi was in a relationship with both Nick and Josh they were on a reality dating show it's not like Andi cheated on Josh because they were not in an exclusive relationship...  I have maintain this stance from the beginning that when you go on this show jealousy can't have any part because this is not like real life dating, the lead  is dating 24 other people, hopefully in the real world you will be the only one, but let's get real a lot of times even in the real world you are not the only one.....So for me when I read post after the post about how amazing Josh is to forgive Andi for sleeping with Nick I am literally shaking my head, they were NOT in an exclusive relationship Andi was still in a relationship with Nick an if she wanted to have sex with him why not?  If that what she wanted to do, she didn't have a ring on her finger from either of them.....  I 100% agree that Josh is an amazing man but forgiving Andi for sleeping with Nick, nah he came onto the show he knew that if he were the F1 there was a chance that Andi might have been intimate with someone else that's one of the cons of being on this show if your ego or pride can't wrap around that concept then don't come on the show that's my opinion..  I will give Andi 100% PROPS for being honest with Josh in the FS that she was intimate with Nick that was for the best because look what happen, I adore Andi and Josh together to me the are the real deal, can't wait until their wedding..

I agree with most of what you said here and, in fact, have heard Josh say much of the same. Where I disagree a tad is that I think we can know something rationally but our emotions are not always caught up to that cognitive awareness. So just as sbolduc just said, while none of us know where Josh and Andi have been or where they are currently relative to this issue, I suspect (and actually hope) that Josh has gone through his own internal emotional process and reached acceptance (which, of course, is the resolution of the grieving process) about this. By all appearances, it certainly looks like he has.

charriotoffire wrote:And I wonder if Andi told Josh that she slept with Nick before Fantasy Suite Date, I would imagine she played it safe and told him after they were engaged. That would be really awkward to tell Josh ' Hey btw I just banged Nick 3 days ago.'

Please Louise, she was probably warned by TBTP that Nick is threatening to expose her and that's why Andi told Josh before ATFR. The woman is so cunning that she knows to play her cards right.

There's a lot of clues to be found in the dialog and interviews as to when certain things happened and I look to those clues to come up with the most logical conclusion to me. IMHO Andi told Josh what had happened with Nick the morning after her FS date with Josh. Andi later said that when she and Josh were sharing a bottle of wine and talking the morning after their FS date, she realized she was with her best friend and someone she could "tell anything" to and that was also when she realized that she was in love with Josh and actually had been in love with him all along. I think the "tell everything to" was telling Josh about what had happened with Nick and Josh. Josh also said (during the show that we saw) that he knew everything about Andi and knew that he loved her - that "everything" that he was referring to went completely over our heads when we first heard it but IMHO Josh was referring to his knowledge of what happened between Andi and Nick.

Josh saw the situation for what it is (in the context of this show) - the lead whittles down multiple options until they make a final decision and until that decision is made they are not in an exclusive relationship with anyone. Josh had no right to expect exclusivity and didn't expect it - not until he was the final choice and he put a ring on it, but he knew well before he proposed all about Andi & Nick - she kept nothing from him and that was very smart for her to do because things have a tendency to come out sooner or later and covering them up makes them worse when they finally surface. Andi couldn't and didn't risk that.

There are two people that come to my mind that I think had a good grasp of "dating" in the context of this show and they are Catherine (who saw it as a matchmaking process) and Josh.

docnash14 wrote:I agree with most of what you said here and, in fact, have heard Josh say much of the same.  Where I disagree a tad is that I think we can know something rationally but our emotions are not always caught up to that cognitive awareness.  So just as sbolduc just said, while none of us know where Josh and Andi have been or where they are currently relative to this issue, I suspect (and actually hope) that Josh has gone through his own internal emotional process and reached acceptance (which, of course, is the resolution of the grieving process) about this.  By all appearances, it certainly looks like he has.

I think the point I bolded is exactly why we heard Andi say things like "This could all blow up in my face" during the MTP and LCD sequence. As I posted earlier I think Andi told Josh about Nick the morning after their FD but then didn't see him until the MTP / LCD and was probably aware that this was something that could simmer in Josh's mind and once it really sank in (cognitive awareness) there was a chance he might feel differently about it.

I think Nick's reveal on the AFR was a shock to viewers on two levels - one is that it actually happened in the first place and the other is that Nick actually said that it happened on live TV. But looking at Josh and Andi "post AFR" doesn't show much evidence that either of them has had a problem reaching acceptance which IMO is because they reached acceptance of it months ago - before anything was ever said on live TV and the only shock was that Nick said it on TV.

I'm not saying it's right, but most people today have had some (or a lot) of sexual experiences with others before they get engaged and marry and most should expect that their partners have a "history". They need to accept that the history is just that - history and doesn't affect their current relationship. What makes this show unique is that the history is much more recent than it might be in real life.

luvlady345 wrote:LOL. you must have never, ever had an ex?  I have never once thought about any of my bf exs while he is with me an I doubt he thinks about who I have been with either....Let me repeat Andi was in a relationship with both Nick and Josh they were on a reality dating show it's not like Andi cheated on Josh because they were not in an exclusive relationship...  I have maintain this stance from the beginning that when you go on this show jealousy can't have any part because this is not like real life dating, the lead  is dating 24 other people, hopefully in the real world you will be the only one, but let's get real a lot of times even in the real world you are not the only one.....So for me when I read post after the post about how amazing Josh is to forgive Andi for sleeping with Nick I am literally shaking my head, they were NOT in an exclusive relationship Andi was still in a relationship with Nick an if she wanted to have sex with him why not?  If that what she wanted to do, she didn't have a ring on her finger from either of them.....  I 100% agree that Josh is an amazing man but forgiving Andi for sleeping with Nick, nah he came onto the show he knew that if he were the F1 there was a chance that Andi might have been intimate with someone else that's one of the cons of being on this show if your ego or pride can't wrap around that concept then don't come on the show that's my opinion..  I will give Andi 100% PROPS for being honest with Josh in the FS that she was intimate with Nick that was for the best because look what happen, I adore Andi and Josh together to me the are the real deal, can't wait until their wedding..

I agree with you for the most part, except the bolded, here is why.

Like you, I think people who go on this show should do a lot of homework first and learn that the possibility of not being F1 is quite high--from 0 to 100%!  And not only that, they should know that the leads might sleep w/more than 1 person, to make the final decision.  If they don't accept this "nature" of this show, they should, no, they must stay away at all cost.  Having said that,  they're only human, who have feelings and emotions just like us.

IMO,  Josh understands and accepts "this" before, during and after the show 'cause he loves Andi.  But thanks to F2, the whole world, including his family, found out about the "secret" or not "so secret" of the FS.

Josh doesn't have to "forgive" her for anything but IMO,  he might have to "forgive" Andi (in his mind) for putting his family ( or friends) thru the "scandal", just because they are not Josh.

Andi didn't  put Josh' s family an  friends through anything. I repeat again they were  not in an exclusive relationship. This was not Josh the Bachelor show the last time I checked Andi was the lead it was her choice to do what she felt. Just because she chose Josh and fell in love with him, doesn't negates her feelings for the other men.

^ Yeah that. I don't think MeandI owes anyone an apology for following through with the premise of the show. It is what it is!

luvlady345 wrote:Andi didn't  put Josh' s family an  friends through anything. I repeat again they were  not in an exclusive relationship. This was not Josh the Bachelor show the last time I checked Andi was the lead it was her choice to do what she felt. Just because she chose Josh and fell in love with him, doesn't negates her feelings for the other men.

I agree.  She didn't put anyone thru anything, but  because "they" are not Josh ( who loves her) hence they might feel about Andi differently.  Again, this is my point!

Also, I should highlight the broadcasting of the "secret"  on national TV.  And I don't know whether his family was told before the ATFR or not.

vivi2 wrote:I agree.  She didn't put anyone thru anything, but  because "they" are not Josh ( who loves her) hence they might feel about Andi differently.  Again, this is my point!

Also, I should highlight the broadcasting of the "secret"  on national TV.  And I don't know whether his family was told before the ATFR or not.

I don't think any of us can know that. Nick has said he had no idea beforehand he was going to ask that question but it does make me wonder - did the show have an idea he might? Did Andi / or Josh have an idea he might? We'll never know that either but it's certainly possible that they thought he might. I do think that Andi was prepared for any unknown and that's why I've said I thought she was guarded (as opposed to cold) and interestingly even though Nick many times he wasn't prepared for her attitude he also said that he had at least some understanding of her attitude:

Reality TV World wrote:Reality TV World: Do you think Andi was being genuine through her "cold" behavior or do you think she was just trying to keep her guard up with you, like maintain that wall between you?
Nick Viall: I don't know. I don't know. I was just very surprised by that. I really don't know. It has been two-and-a-half months, she's in a serious relationship with Josh, she's engaged, it's a cold situation for her and myself and Josh -- I don't know. I was just surprised.

That was a very good question from the interviewer BTW - one of several tough questions they asked Nick because I think that's exactly what Andi was trying to do - keep her guard up.

Lots of "coulds" and "mights" in all this because it's all speculation. No matter who was told and who wasn't, for certain some people were surprised at what happened.

I don't know, I guess for me, none of this show is about actual reality. It's dumb. It puts the lead and the contestants in some really difficult situations, but obviously they sign up for it so it's their problem.

Things happen in the heat of the moment, especially when there's probably alcohol involved, you're physically attracted to someone and there are some sort of feelings involved. Crap happens, but it happened when reality wasn't set in place. I think Lauren Murray said it the best, Andi wasn't Josh's until he put the ring on her finger and that's all he cared about. While the ring signifies an engagement, with this ridiculous show it also basically signifies that they're formally together, which would have been the case in the real world after some casual dating, not dating 24 other men in a 10 week span.

Whether Andi told him in the FS or after the engagement, although from hints dropped it seems in the FS, I don't think it really matters because for them, it appears since the beginning of May when they started living together things have gone nicely.

As for the gross sentiment that every time Josh is with Andi he'll think of Nick, I don't know, I certainly don't think of my current boyfriends ex who he dated shortly before me and we've been together for a year. It actually doesn't cross my mind at all, because everyone has a past - myself included.

It's just a tiresome subject and in the end it really is just it is what it is. Nothing can be changed. It was a change that we actually heard the F2 person say it, but it wasn't a change the lead slept with two people. Weirdly, all that reall matters with these couples is what happens after the show is filmed.. Things seem to be going really well.

As unappetizing as this turns out to be for many, the entire premise of the show is that the Lead is paid to get four guys to want to (in the company of dozens of producers and cameras etc.) take her home to family, three to spend the night alone (with all the optics when the show airs, and the face to face expectations), and two to propose (mandates deception). That's daunting, even with all the fun travel and clothes and hair/makeup sessions. The premise is by definition not going to yield a "courtship" that can fairly be compared against "real world" dating mores and expectations, as it plays out season after season. SO, over the years, I've learned to cut them all a huge break, and close the books on each season.