Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

luvlady345 wrote:, smh I love it,  so much shade being thrown on Andi and now henpecked Josh just because she didn't choose gremlin Nick and wasn't soft/warm enough for his bruised ego.

I think Andi did the right thing for picking Josh. He is a better match for her than Nick. I totally agree with ALANNA that Josh brings out her better qualities. I hope Andi will change, not because she's a bad person or she needs to please total strangers. I just feel that people change when their lifestyles change, you change when you get married, you change when you become a parent. I think everyone has room to grow, so I hope Andi will grow into a even better and mature woman.

charriotoffire wrote:

Catdwoman50 wrote:

sdmom wrote:

Wonderful post!!!  
Love your eloquent list.
I was just thinking what is a STRONG woman? I think it's different from a woman with strong personality. I think a strong woman can be vulnerable, will make mistakes from time to time, but is brave enough to admit, and will grow from them. I think of my own mom: many people may think she's a "doormat" to my dad's strong personality, because she's submissive to him and hardly argued with him. However, in her fight against cancer, she's never shed a tear and even comforted us "it's going to be OK".  She's shown me the courage of never giving up and the love for her family when facing  adversity. To me, that's a strong woman.
I didn't watch Andi from JPG's season, but CMIIW, didn't she make fun of his accent?? To me, that's not kind or compassionate.

I agree, but we also should allow for women to make mistakes along the way.  But yes, that would be an example of inappropriate or even juvenile behavior because it can be construed as bullying.  But, again, it's up for debate.

If its a "bachelor" who made fun of a latina contestant's accent  he will be hated on for life.   Also,  if its a "Bachelor" who treated an F2 like she has a disease after bedding her in  the fantasy suite knowing that he will not choose her, women will be up in arms against him.  Andi Dorfman got away with a lot.  

I hope as  women we would never equate being strong to being 'condescending' and a 'jerk'.   (Glad Erick stood up to her and call her out on being inauthentic)

* Josh is obviously henpecked.   He is used being in the background while a more 'important' sibling takes all the glory.  He is perfect for Meandi.

Men and women alike made fun, and are still making fun of JPG's accent.  Andi is not alone.  PLENTY of folks, especially the producers, Bachelor Nation and posters here have done the same every time they use "ess okay" with reference to him.  

I disagree on Josh being henpecked.  I don't know enough about their relationship to say that is clear at all.

luvlady345 wrote:, smh I love it,  so much shade being thrown on Andi and now henpecked Josh just because she didn't choose gremlin Nick and wasn't soft/warm enough for his bruised ego.

I believe my opinion of Andi has nothing to do with who she picked. From almost week two I was free Josh and Marcus. Then I became free Nick as well. I don't consider Josh henpecked. I don't know how much he has been of Andi outside the bubble. We are working on two weeks when he could see Andi interact with other people. He didn't watch the season except his parts, so he didn't see her with Eric or her so cold interview taped after filming was done. He didn't see her lack of warmth when Dylan told him her story. He didn't see how she was with Nick and then how she dumped him. He saw Andi having to deal with Nick trying to contact her after the show and he got protective. I understand, but I think if he had actually seen the whole season he might have understood a little more. Maybe not.

Again, if more than a few #blessed come from Andi, then great. I said Josh was the only one who had any success standing up to Andi, so maybe he will help her. I believe he loves her and also that he admires a lot of her. I just don't know how much of the MeAndI Josh has seen and it is there, so if he helps her to tame that, great.

Again, I dislike Andi for Andi, doesn't matter if she is with Marcus, Chris, Nick or Josh. I liked Andi slightly more as we saw with Nick this season. If she starts being what I consider a better person, I will like her more.

Let me clarify, I don't like the Kardashians, Paris Hilton or any of the spoiled rich kids. I was a fan of Jef, but since Emily's season he is more and more like a Kardashian, so I am not a fan of his either.

I don't enjoy spoiled little rich girls. They irritate me.

I didn't like Des and Chris at first either. I loved Chris, but didn't believe in the Des 8 day turn around. I have learned and think they are a great couple. So I am open to change or being wrong. I changed my mind with Des as I saw her love Chris and be genuine with him.

If I see Andi change and see positive things, I will change there too.

I liked Kelly T before this season. Now I find her to be a mean girl and a waste of time. So I try to stay open both ways.

Let me clarify, if she picked Nick and treated Josh the way she treated Nick, I would have still criticized her behavior.

Not every dislike of Andi has anything to do with Nick. She has plenty of unlikeable traits without any of her interactions with Nick.

All the way back to making fun of someone for their accent.

Yeah, IDK, maybe it's just me the master of one language only, and I find that's challenging enough.
Maybe it's just me who can muster enough of another language to make basic communication only.
I happen to admire anyone who can speak another language. I am constantly in awe of the members on this forum who read, write and understand english (as their second language) and then apologize for it being less than perfect. I wish I had the command of another language!
The "eeees okay" was maybe funny once, but got old fast.

It's not my business who sleeps with who on this show its their business, I repeat their business and yes I would feel th same I didn't like the fact that Clare brought up the questionable statement about JP and JP was by far not one of my favorite people so nope I would not champion a woman outing a man either I think it's low class and speaks for the character of that person. It's takes 2 to tango on a show like this where I wasn't guaranteed that my feelings are reciprocated, why sleep with the person an then cry fowl when you are not chosen. If I decided to sleep with a man when we are not exclusive that's on me, he is not responsible for my feelings I am.

alwaystulips wrote:
Men and women alike made fun, and are still making fun of JPG's accent.  Andi is not alone.  PLENTY of folks, especially the producers, Bachelor Nation and posters here have done the same every time they use "ess okay" with reference to him.  

I disagree on Josh being henpecked.  I don't know enough about their relationship to say that is clear at all.

Always, on your first point - it still doesn't make it right.  We can only control what we do and not what others do.  So Andi's action is not excusable because others do it too - again if I join others making fun of another - isn't that a way of cyber bullying?  Does that make it right?

I agree on your second point, I don't know what happens behind closed doors to label Josh that.

Catdwoman50 wrote:

alwaystulips wrote:
Men and women alike made fun, and are still making fun of JPG's accent.  Andi is not alone.  PLENTY of folks, especially the producers, Bachelor Nation and posters here have done the same every time they use "ess okay" with reference to him.  

I disagree on Josh being henpecked.  I don't know enough about their relationship to say that is clear at all.

Always, on your first point - it still doesn't make it right.  We can only control what we do and not what others do.  So Andi's actions is not excusable because others do it too - again if I join others making fun of another - isn't that a way of cyber bullying?  Does that make it right?

I agree on your second point, I don't know what happens behind closed doors to label Josh that.

Oh, I agree.  Andi was wrong and she's responsible for her own actions.  It was wrong.  By every one of them.

luvlady345 wrote:I don't like to compare women, we know nothing about the Murray women but the little we have seen they are lovely women just as Andi...  I guess the reason why I am drawn to Andi because out of all the ETTES I identify most with her I am soft and warm when I need to be and take no prisoner when the need arises.....  I don't make any apologies for who I am I imagine the same for Andi......I am sure the people in Andi's life love her for who she is and those who don't know her and not like her, really who cares?

I agree -- the Murray women seem terrific. I'm sure Andi will have great relationships with both of them, without them feeling the need to "fix" her.

alwaystulips wrote:

catdwoman50 wrote:Always, on your first point - it still doesn't make it right.  We can only control what we do and not what others do.  So Andi's actions is not excusable because others do it too - again if I join others making fun of another - isn't that a way of cyber bullying?  Does that make it right?

Oh, I agree.  It doesn't make Andi's actions right at all.  My point was that the producers, CH, MF - they all encouraged it.  And it's wrong.

Kind of interesting that Sharleen is STILL using it in her blog but doesn't seem to get any grief about it.

I guess I'm sticking to the fan threads from this point on. As I read through this discussion (and the other discussion threads) it leaves me feeling slightly sick. Seems like we slip over the line from honest discussion to unhealthy condemnation a little too easily and too frequently for my taste. See you on the fan threads!

Relalou wrote:I guess I'm sticking to the fan threads from this point on.  As I read through this discussion (and the other discussion threads) it leaves me feeling slightly sick.  Seems like we slip over the line from honest discussion to unhealthy condemnation a little too easily and too frequently for my taste.  See you on the fan threads!

I am sorry if some of my opinions upset you. I try not to be mean, but I just have not seen an Andi who I admire or like. I wanted to and hoped her season would show me a person I could like. It just didn't happen. Because of what I do right now, I am around a lot of women in their 20s and I don't want people using her as an example. There have been great examples from this show. I just think that Andi has a lot of growing up to do. I hope that with Josh she finds that. Maybe a lot has to do with her past hurts with men and Josh will help heal that. I don't wish bad for her, I just hope to see her grow and become someone I do like. I think her spunk and passion if combined with some compassion would make her a very interesting person.

For those that do like Andi, I don't wish for you to not like her. I hope that maybe with time people will keep educating me if she does grow more compassionate, because I am always willing to learn and change my opinion myself.

Catdwoman & Stuckinsc...you both have eloquently and fairly stated your opinions of Andi. I am in agreement with the vast majority of what you have written.

Kasha...I agree about being bilingual or multi-lingual. It is a gift, a talent, and so admirable. I do not have that skill myself. I don't believe that Andi speaks anything other than English herself.

Eagle Eye wrote:
Kind of interesting that Sharleen is STILL using it in her blog but doesn't seem to get any grief about it.

Sharleen genuinely likes most people, and has good things to say about others, so with her jokes come across as made with love. She really did and does like Juan Pablo.